Is having an Official Forums good for FFXIV?

What are the benefits and pros of having this forum in the first place? Maybe PROS is that the game developers can hear from the players and take feedback as to which direction to develop the game. And the CONS .... wouldn't it be the exact same thing? Maybe too much feedback makes the game prone to whoever makes the most noise on the forum and not necessarily what is best for the game.

I appreciate the SE team and the direction they are heading, but who of us here have access to all the information they do in order to make these decisions? I'll make this comparision even if it doesn't apply or not, but didn't we all think we knew what was best for us when we were younger, and maybe there were times we didn't listen to our parent's advise in everything?

Well I'm just saying I almost feel it would be nice to just pick up a game and play it on it's own merit. I don't necessarily want to be part of the decision making and feedback process. I almost feel this game has become too much of a democracy. Sometimes there are things/projects that if you continue to meddle with them or fine tune them, you lose a certain tangible organic feel to them.

I do enjoy forums in general and do see the importance of community and sharing opinions with each other, I'm just not sure that a forum directly attached to the developers of this game is best for the game.

Right or Wrong however, opinions are welcome!

The forums are more miss than hit. There are only a few OP gems in a sea of opinion threads that are regarded as fact. There is a huge misconception that players actually think they are contributing a large amount to the direction of FFXIV, but on the contrary they are just using this as a means to communicate better with the community.

And in those small instances find a very intelligent and thought out suggestion that they could see fitting in with their development plans. I think that player suggestion is rarely taken into account because it's easy to see if the topic is merely a subjective issue or an actual major problem.

I see no benefit at all in having this forum...it would be extremely productive if we had a large amount od population taking part of it...but right now we have just a few users, most of them from same "group" of players and that aren't even close to reflect the real opinion of the playerbase.

That's why i always though both polls and forums should never been taken seriously...while they can be good for suggestions and feedback, its not even close to be a decent enough sample of population to base decisions on...and this is why the PS3 release potentially might fail...because they used that poll to base all the changes regardless of population sample size.

Have to take the bad with the good.

The official forums are really good for letting the devs have more direct communication with us. As for our input...? Well, the devs are certainly smart enough to know when to listen and when not to. So, the forums can only be a positive influence on the game itself.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

I see no benefit at all in having this forum...it would be extremely productive if we had a large amount od population taking part of it...but right now we have just a few users, most of them from same "group" of players and that aren't even close to reflect the real opinion of the playerbase.

That's why i always though both polls and forums should never been taken seriously...while they can be good for suggestions and feedback, its not even close to be a decent enough sample of population to base decisions on...and this is why the PS3 release potentially might fail...because they used that poll to base all the changes regardless of population sample size.

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i agree with you in part.

the forums are more of a divisive form of communication than anything else. if someone posts any opinion it becomes a flame fest regardless of the topic. if it's a complaint it's "QQ MOAR" and if its positive it's "shut up whiteknight". the forums are good for getting information from the reps and hearing what yoshi himself has to say, but i see no other positive coming out of it.

there's a very small minority of even the few k players that actually play the game that will even visit the forums. i've heard repeatedly in game people talking about they have an issue and when suggested to bring it to the forums they say they don't feel like getting personally attacked.

the part is disagree with is about the polls.

the polls are a very good representation of the players. they can at least figure out from the polls what the people that actually play the game like and dislike and what they want to see make it into the game to make it better. granted, it's not going to be 100% correct in what the mmo genre in general wants, but it does give alot more insight into what the players want.

in other words i will use auto attack for an example. i hate auto attack and i see many people that did do battle that have either stopped playing or have decided to do only dol/doh classes. if they had a poll and asked would people rather have seen auto attack or them to made changes to the system in place to make it more strategic and fluid i could have actually looked at the poll results and and seen if i was in the majority or minority.

i am more willing to accept something if i see the majority feels one way. i can look at the poll results and say " i may not agree with it, but since the majority wants it then it's probably better for the future of the game"

so, yes, i do agree for the most part that the forums are counterproductive they do have some good points, but i completely disagree about player polls. i believe if we had more polls with more direct questions on the direction to take the game we would have had alot less threads complaining when parts of the game people liked were removed or changed if the majority was for the change.

I can see peoples points about the forums being a communication device between the player base. I do like that idea. And I do suspect that Brucey is right in regards to how the developement team looks at specific feedback and ideas coming from these forums, but regardless. These forums do have moderators, and those moderators are in Yoshi's ear, so whether they admit to it or not, or if the act or not on ideas, these forums place the player's voice directly in SE's proverbial ear. That "voice" whether intended or not does influence decision whatever level that may be.

The danger I see is player base's likes and opinions are constantly changing. Is the direction of the game based on the changing MMO's players mood, or is based on experienced MMO professionals who have a precise gameplan layed out for how this game will be developed. I for one like auto-attack, but at the same time, my curiosity would of liked to see how Tanaka's plan would of played out if it had not been torpedo'd by a combination of a game released too early, and poor poll results by the player base.

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Originally Posted by Bigglesworth

I can see peoples points about the forums being a communication device between the player base. I do like that idea. And I do suspect that Brucey is right in regards to how the developement team looks at specific feedback and ideas coming from these forums, but regardless. These forums do have moderators, and those moderators are in Yoshi's ear, so whether they admit to it or not, or if the act or not on ideas, these forums place the player's voice directly in SE's proverbial ear. That "voice" whether intended or not does influence decision whatever level that may be.

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Oh yes. Absolutely. I think what I was trying to say is the influence is less than the community thinks it is. Which, I feel, isn't a bad thing. However, it is a safe assumption that if several different members are loud enough on a certain subject it can be changed. Not to be confused with threads that are loud, but have only a few people doing all the pages of screaming.

I know one thing, having these forums is better than doing what was done at the start of the development team's shift and that was player polls. Some systems need a lot of dissecting and maybe player's opinions are defined by ignorance. These forums allow people to see things in the ways others do and it has the potential of teaching you the other side of things. The other side of where you see the game now and where it's going.

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Originally Posted by Bigglesworth

The danger I see is player base's likes and opinions are constantly changing. Is the direction of the game based on the changing MMO's players mood, or is based on experienced MMO professionals who have a precise gameplan layed out for how this game will be developed. I for one like auto-attack, but at the same time, my curiosity would of liked to see how Tanaka's plan would of played out if it had not been torpedo'd by a combination of a game released too early, and poor poll results by the player base.

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i don't think it's really the opinion of the player constantly changing. you just see new faces each time a change is made and it was something they liked. the ones that are enjoying the game don't come in to say anything bad. i, personally, rarely visited the forums at all until i heard about the upcoming battle changes. i came on the forums then to defend the system as it was(although it did still need work), but by then the decision was made because of the constant complaints in the forums by people that didn't like it.

if the poll had asked directly any question about whether or not people wanted auto attack and the majority voted for it i would have supported the move and if people had voted to have the old system worked on to make it better i would have supported that way. the old battle system failed, in my opinion, because the game was released in a half completed state and everything was not ready to be put out to the public. this blame goes directly to the head honcho's that decided they wanted to release it then and work while it was out.

the thing was the poll asked about drastic changes(not auto attack) and almost everyone, including me, voted we wanted it. yes, i wanted drastic changes. i wanted to do more than constant crab parties and having very little story line. i wanted a vast story with many available side quests like every other final fantasy game that was released to date.

i think u have this all wrong to begin with. its not like the ppl in charge are asking for u to design the game for them. the forum is just a place where we can all chat about things, and if for some unknown reason a player comes up with a better idea than a dev. its nice for them to have access to that information, and be able to develop on that idea. the main point in te forum is just a place for us to rant and rave, and chat about things also a way for the dev's to us know about any things they got going on that might be of intrest

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

the part is disagree with is about the polls.

the polls are a very good representation of the players. they can at least figure out from the polls what the people that actually play the game like and dislike and what they want to see make it into the game to make it better. granted, it's not going to be 100% correct in what the mmo genre in general wants, but it does give alot more insight into what the players want.

in other words i will use auto attack for an example. i hate auto attack and i see many people that did do battle that have either stopped playing or have decided to do only dol/doh classes. if they had a poll and asked would people rather have seen auto attack or them to made changes to the system in place to make it more strategic and fluid i could have actually looked at the poll results and and seen if i was in the majority or minority.

i am more willing to accept something if i see the majority feels one way. i can look at the poll results and say " i may not agree with it, but since the majority wants it then it's probably better for the future of the game"

so, yes, i do agree for the most part that the forums are counterproductive they do have some good points, but i completely disagree about player polls. i believe if we had more polls with more direct questions on the direction to take the game we would have had alot less threads complaining when parts of the game people liked were removed or changed if the majority was for the change.

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The thing about the poll is that it actually, just like the forum, does not reflect the playerbase will. Its just the same people that post here but, this time, voting annonymously...sometimes using mules too to inflate results and stuff.

IMO poll would only be valid if they were made ingame. Like placing an NPC, you answer his survey, receive a prize (prize to stimulate participation) and gogo...but a poll here, like last 2, have no real value.

And about what you said regarding AA, i agree completely...so much i'm one of those that just don't fight anymore...now i only craft and do gathering...and what you said is what i'm afraid that will happen...over time people might just leave because they are not pleased to the game...and right now i see this game collapsing the moment they decide charging...not because they're doing the wrong things, but because they're basing the decisions on a minority opinion.

I REALLY wanted to see how many players answered the first and second polls.

I think official forums just help to centralize the community. If we didn't have these forums, I assume that many of us would just end up picking our preferred fan site and using their forums. It also provides the community team with a way to distribute information and answer questions without either having to coordinate with multiple fan sites, or having to post a whole news post on the main site just to address relatively minor bits of information.

TLDR: The forums are a great tool to collect feedback and distribute information. While many posts are rather useless, I like being able to get direct feedback from the community team in an official context.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

The thing about the poll is that it actually, just like the forum, does not reflect the playerbase will. Its just the same people that post here but, this time, voting annonymously...sometimes using mules too to inflate results and stuff.

IMO poll would only be valid if they were made ingame. Like placing an NPC, you answer his survey, receive a prize (prize to stimulate participation) and gogo...but a poll here, like last 2, have no real value.

And about what you said regarding AA, i agree completely...so much i'm one of those that just don't fight anymore...now i only craft and do gathering...and what you said is what i'm afraid that will happen...over time people might just leave because they are not pleased to the game...and right now i see this game collapsing the moment they decide charging...not because they're doing the wrong things, but because they're basing the decisions on a minority opinion.

I REALLY wanted to see how many players answered the first and second polls.

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my post about the polls was the original one that they actually linked while in game. every player that i knew of actually filled out the poll. it actually gave a good representation on the people that were playing and not the small vocal minority that plays on the forums.

to me the polls should be in game and leave them up for a few weeks, but ask more specific questions before they take the time to do major changes to the system. it would save them putting alot of time into something that people do not like. the reason i say leave them up for a few weeks is that it gives more of a chance for the people that don't play daily a chance to get on and actually have their opinions heard or get people that have taken breaks to get their voices heard.

i am like you in that i am not a fan of the polls being on the forums when i know alot of people that won't even take the time to visit the forum because they are actually in game, but they would do the poll if it was in game.

It's here because we voted for it.

And, it should get better after the re-launch. I'm glad it's already firmly in place.

I have had the oppertunity to to communicate with the dev team, ask questions, and have my oice heard by them, as many of you have as well.

Doesn't matter if its official or unofficial, you would have similar issues.

I like them, only because I can recollect on how awesome I really am when i look at my posts.

My 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

Sure, there's a lot of worthlessness floating around the forums, but that's why we have community reps that dig through it all. It's not just about looking for good ideas and solid reactions, it's about getting into the minds of players. Did anything even remotely tangible come out of our arguing about the bow-harp for 50 pages? Maybe not for us, but SE knows quite a bit about how we might react, what we're expecting, and what they should adjust to make it a bigger hit and a smoother transition.

Combined with the localization forums, which are probably the most useful and fun area of the site imho, I think the forums are working out just fine.

It's not SE's fault that MMORPG populations are mostly children and people with a lot of free-time, social awkwardness, and confrontation issues. That's who they're selling to, that's who they have to deal with. It's business.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

my post about the polls was the original one that they actually linked while in game. every player that i knew of actually filled out the poll. it actually gave a good representation on the people that were playing and not the small vocal minority that plays on the forums.

to me the polls should be in game and leave them up for a few weeks, but ask more specific questions before they take the time to do major changes to the system. it would save them putting alot of time into something that people do not like. the reason i say leave them up for a few weeks is that it gives more of a chance for the people that don't play daily a chance to get on and actually have their opinions heard or get people that have taken breaks to get their voices heard.

i am like you in that i am not a fan of the polls being on the forums when i know alot of people that won't even take the time to visit the forum because they are actually in game, but they would do the poll if it was in game.

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Indeed! I'd surely support they having the polls ingame. Maybe making the 3 tribunes ingame and once every 2~4 weeks we have a brand new poll there. This would be way better because, while here you only find a minimal portion of players, ingame you will give access to polls to nearly the entire playerbase.

I know many people that didn't answer any of the polls, that don't take part in this forum and, still, are active players of FFXIV and, just like me, aren't very pleased with the changes...but not everyone has the time/will to come here toss their 2 cents regarding every aspect of the game...its much easier just quit and find another game that pleases him more...and when all decisions are taken based on a such restricted group of players, like the forum active ones, they have a potential risk of losing these unpleased players...because even if they come here and say (as example-ish) "Hey! GTFO Casuals! It's under new management and the new boss like e-peens!" there are people that bought the game based on the original proposal of it and never ever even came to lodestone...some didn't even read that "An important announcement to all FFXIV fans" that still appears when we log in...they just log in, play the game and log out.

So, after all this random QQ, yep...i do agree polls should be taken ingame instead of here.

Getting player feedback is crucial, as long as you can distill the good from the bad. That's a part of being a good developer.

It's not like the forums are mandatory feature though, you can achieve the same results with third party websites too. But obviously this is more centralized and focused, which can undoubtedly help.

Games need official forums it provides the easiest two way communication between the developers and their consumers. Of course the forums are a mixed bag, with mostly people coming in to piss and moan about things, the people who have no issues with the game have no reason to pop in here as much, they just play the game. Those with issues raise the issues on the forum. THAT is the point of the forum.

If you see no benefit to official forums why would you even bother posting here at all? Just pop in read the dev tracker and leave since this place is apparently pointless.

The forums are neutral towards the game.. it is just a place for people to post their thoughts.

Is it a good thing for the game that the devs are listening to people on the boards? I would say 9 out of 10 times no, it isn't. Imagine if you drained an Olympic size swimming pool down to the last inch of water. All that would be there is the scum clinging for dear life to the bottom.

They making the game base of the few players that go on the forums everyone who play the game don't know jack what going on or what they doing with Jobs system,Storyline, or anything. Make a poll that wont let you log in to FFXIV too you vote for what you like. It may not get 100% of people views but it better then making the game off the few people on here lol most people on here have ideas that make no sense.