IGN Poll Are oldskool RPG players still among us?

While this has more to do with RPG's in general it reminded me of the age old battle going on particularly on these pages.

I know I've been pretty vocal about feeling like all game-play has been streamlined away to blandness but I always thought I'm in the minority here.

See what I'm talking about by viewing the poll results.

AND before this get's into an IGN slam-fest these are IGN readers voting not the visitors of RPGfan.com or ZAM.com I think that makes a big difference.

The question of voice acting actually fits FF series well too. They started adding VO after XI but have never really managed to pull it off in a way that doesn't bring down the quality of the game as opposed to enhancing it. (FFX being the best example and XIII's melodramatic soap opera style acting)

Anyway don't take my word for it see the poll yourself.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/119/1195667p1.html

While reading that all I could think about was "Atlus totally gets this and that's why their games are almost always selling out. Nobody does those kind of games anymore!"

I hope they do another player's poll someday because some things that they're working on make me feel like they've lost the track of their own audience and are ignoring the voice of the community from the first player's poll.

If you're looking for oldskool RPGers pick up a copy of Demons Souls now or wait till October 5th for Dark Souls.

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Originally Posted by Cichy

If you're looking for oldskool RPGers pick up a copy of Demons Souls now or wait till October 5th for Dark Souls.

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Isn't that also published by Atlus?

Anyway as much as I love being slapped around by Demons' Souls I don't think oldskool means hard at all.
I didn't fin any of the FF games hard. To me the oldskool in FF series was the fact that they rewarded exploring and the worlds encouraged exploration and side content was well developed rewarding you for looking around and doing things your own way. The new games don't tend to offer that much choice because just getting a high-def model walk properly costs so much that there isn't time to do anything with it before the release date arrives.

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Originally Posted by Seif

While this has more to do with RPG's in general it reminded me of the age old battle going on particularly on these pages.

I know I've been pretty vocal about feeling like all game-play has been streamlined away to blandness but I always thought I'm in the minority here.

See what I'm talking about by viewing the poll results.

AND before this get's into an IGN slam-fest these are IGN readers voting not the visitors of RPGfan.com or ZAM.com I think that makes a big difference.

The question of voice acting actually fits FF series well too. They started adding VO after XI but have never really managed to pull it off in a way that doesn't bring down the quality of the game as opposed to enhancing it. (FFX being the best example and XIII's melodramatic soap opera style acting)

Anyway don't take my word for it see the poll yourself.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/119/1195667p1.html

While reading that all I could think about was "Atlus totally gets this and that's why their games are almost always selling out. Nobody does those kind of games anymore!"

I hope they do another player's poll someday because some things that they're working on make me feel like they've lost the track of their own audience and are ignoring the voice of the community from the first player's poll.

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No voice acting is the least of what defines the old school RPG experience for me. It is all about leveling up, getting new skills, and: "slow", deliberate, and strategic combat styles. Decent stories and unique/interesting game worlds would be nice to see again as well.

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Should games like Pokemon retain random encounters?

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Really, that depends on the type of game. Sense Pokemon appear in very specific areas, whereas in most RPG's they would appear anywhere on the overworld or in any dungeon, Pokemon has set environments where they can appear. The only problem is really the caves and seas, but they've adjusted the size of those areas to be more bearable.

But that really falls into a whole other topic. Bottom line, I'll take these on a game by game basis.

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IGN

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Stopped reading there.

I always kind of feel like FFXIV does have a little bit of that oldschool vibe lingering in it somewhere. RPGs nowadays tend to have all the voice acting and stuff but, at least from my experience of them, they tend to not feature that many story-driven cut-scenes, usually they save cut-scenes for action sequences. FFXIV does it's cut-scenes quite well and it reminds me a lot of the old Final Fantasy games.

You could also try out Eternal Sonata for ps3 and 360, that plays very much like the old style of RPG. And an excellent one to try is Resonance Of Fate, the battle system in that is superb, and the customisability of characters and weaponry feels so much more advanced than other RPGs.

I know what you mean about this 'modern age of RPG' though. Most RPGs now tend to have a camera focused behind your character and it follows you around which makes the game feel more like an action game than an RPG, and the plot of the game tends to happen as you're running around rather than through spectacular cut-scenes like back in the day. As good as games like Mass Effect, Magna Carta II, Elder Scrolls and Star Ocean may be, they just don't give the same RPG vibe that games like Legend Of Legaia, Final Fantasy 7-8-9 or Grandia gave.

I get a lot of the projects cross over and they have decided no matter what how it will be now.
But It would be nice to get polls between each patch based on what has changed and what they plan to change this time.

But as per the direction of the OP: Unfortunately atm were heading down a very middle of the road mmo direction.
I think we have an ideal platform atm to push forward and keep the classic harder RPG elements, but balance them with a more casual dip in an out feel for parts of the game.

I would kill to See more of the voice acting though, even my character having more sound effects when idle/failing a craft an fighting.
A lore book added where you can collect info on the game, history, charecters and monsters
The use of our ability to redo all cut scenes and story events for fun.

Yes, but keep Link quiet 57.71%

Hells yes: Let the people have their voices! 22.86%


.........whyyyyy

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Yes, but keep Link quiet 57.71%

Hells yes: Let the people have their voices! 22.86%


.........whyyyyy

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Probably so we don't end up with a Metroid Other M situation where the entire fanbase detests the voice acting and personification of a character that some of them have cherished for over twenty years.

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Originally Posted by quantumsaint

Probably so we don't end up with a Metroid Other M situation where the entire fanbase detests the voice acting and personification of a character that some of them have cherished for over twenty years.

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Or another case of:
"They set us up the bomb"
"What you say?"
"How are you gentlemen? All your base are belong to us"

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

Or another case of:
"They set us up the bomb"
"What you say?"
"How are you gentlemen? All your base are belong to us"

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For the record, that was not voice acted. Whoever made the viral video added the computer voice reading the opening scene.

(And Zero Wing was a pretty kickass shooter besides the poor translation)

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

For the record, that was not voice acted. Whoever made the viral video added the computer voice reading the opening scene.

(And Zero Wing was a pretty kickass shooter besides the poor translation)

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I know but it'd be hilarious to play a game where it was translated that badly and voice acted to boot.

Oldschool RPG players are definitely a minority now. The gaming world is flooded with impatient brats who need things like "auto-battle" because they're too lazy input commands for characters, or linear maps they can traverse with their eye's closed without fear of death or misdirection.

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Originally Posted by Archadius

Oldschool RPG players are definitely a minority now. The gaming world is flooded with impatient brats who need things like "auto-battle" because they're too lazy input commands for characters, or linear maps they can traverse with their eye's closed without fear of death or misdirection.

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All too true :(

I miss random encounters and secret dungeons and super secret uber hard bosses that gave ultimate weapons and a camera that didn't require a thumbstick or triggers because it was fixed and going to the equipment screen and fiddling with a whole bunch of things I never really understood to try and come up with a good combination and status windows that were just a whole bunch of numbers that were never explained and pre-rendered backgrounds and most of all I miss SPRITES!

old skool rpg. i played and completed final fantasy 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10-2, 12. and a whole host of other rpg's that are not FF. so i think i got a good grasp on this subject . in my opinion old skool is not always best go back to old and the games just weren't up scratch FF 1 2 and 4 i thought were pretty rubbish. sure when they started speaking in 10 i would have given anything for them to tone it down a bit, that being said 10 was a great game tho with the spere grid and the monster catching for the battle arena i found myself playing that game forever. as for FF 13 i have never played such an awful pile of donkey crap in all my life that game was so bad i couldn't even bring myself to finish it. so is old skool better. sometimes yes 6 and 7 will always be my fav FF games and i guess there old skool, but sometimes no coz to early and they don't have the same apeal, gameplay or storyline as some later games.

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Originally Posted by grandm

as for FF 13 i have never played such an awful pile of donkey crap in all my life that game was so bad i couldn't even bring myself to finish it.

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This resonates with my soul. So much! xD

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Originally Posted by ChronicalSin

This resonates with my soul. So much! xD

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I'm gonna have to disagree with that. I was told by many that FFXIII was a terrible game, most people claiming is was bad because it was a linear path with no really movability. But then I went out and bougtht it anyways just to make my own opinion.

The paths XIII gives you to move around on is exactly the same as the paths you follow in games like FFX, the difference is FFX has a static camera so your character moves into the screen or out of it, or side to side. Because XIII's camera follows behind you you get a clearer view of what your character sees, not the camera. So is it a linear path? Yes, but only in the same way that most other FF games are, the difference is perspective.

If you dislike it for the case that the whole thing is pretty much story-driven and there's not that much time spent actually playing the characters rather than watching them, well, it is an RPG after all and that usually means it'll have a lot of plot, XIII just chooses to have A LOT of plot. But that being said, Metal Gear Solid 2 was pretty much just 1 hour of gameplay and 4 hours of cut-scenes but people loved that, why not now?

And as for the characters... well... come on, you have to admit a few of them are pretty awesome, and Sahz is hilariously funny!

The only downside to the whole game really is how the auto-battle system makes it so you never really have to press anything but your 'accept' button during a fight apart from those rare moments when you need to switch stances or use an item.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

I'm gonna have to disagree with that. I was told by many that FFXIII was a terrible game, most people claiming is was bad because it was a linear path with no really movability. But then I went out and bougtht it anyways just to make my own opinion.

The paths XIII gives you to move around on is exactly the same as the paths you follow in games like FFX, the difference is FFX has a static camera so your character moves into the screen or out of it, or side to side. Because XIII's camera follows behind you you get a clearer view of what your character sees, not the camera. So is it a linear path? Yes, but only in the same way that most other FF games are, the difference is perspective.

If you dislike it for the case that the whole thing is pretty much story-driven and there's not that much time spent actually playing the characters rather than watching them, well, it is an RPG after all and that usually means it'll have a lot of plot, XIII just chooses to have A LOT of plot. But that being said, Metal Gear Solid 2 was pretty much just 1 hour of gameplay and 4 hours of cut-scenes but people loved that, why not now?

And as for the characters... well... come on, you have to admit a few of them are pretty awesome, and Sahz is hilariously funny!

The only downside to the whole game really is how the auto-battle system makes it so you never really have to press anything but your 'accept' button during a fight apart from those rare moments when you need to switch stances or use an item.

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Yes that is your opinion. Not mine.
That's the beauty of it! ^_~

Shame the last question had only 2 options, I would have liked something inbetween. Still, some interesting trends there.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

The paths XIII gives you to move around on is exactly the same as the paths you follow in games like FFX, the difference is FFX has a static camera so your character moves into the screen or out of it, or side to side. Because XIII's camera follows behind you you get a clearer view of what your character sees, not the camera. So is it a linear path? Yes, but only in the same way that most other FF games are, the difference is perspective.

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Interestingly, FFX was indeed almost as bad with the corridor level design as XIII, yet hasn't been criticized for it nearly as much. I supposed back then people were still too impressed with the 3D graphics to notice?
However, "most other FF games" certainly were not built this way.

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Originally Posted by Naqaj

Interestingly, FFX was indeed almost as bad with the corridor level design as XIII, yet hasn't been criticized for it nearly as much. I supposed back then people were still too impressed with the 3D graphics to notice?
However, "most other FF games" certainly were not built this way.

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It's the camera that does it. In XIII it's always behind the character so you can see how all paths are just straight tunnels, in other FF's the camera is placed somewhere else in the enviroment so you appear to move across the screen or further into it etc.

And yes other FF games suffered from the same tunnel paths. Remember the forest near Nibelheim in FF7? Or perhaps Ifrits Cave in FF8? The Petrified Forest of FF9? Just a few examples but FF games are literred with these linear paths, the only difference is no one really gave a damn about it untill FFXIII came out and made it a bit more obvious.

Exactly. FF games have always been linear. 13's only crime was it didn't bother to try and hide it.

Good point, maybe it was really the camera that fooled people.

Yes, particular dungeons in earlier FFs had such a linear design too. But while the story progression was of course leading you along a linear path, the game worlds as a whole were not built linearly. You had much more freedom to roam around, pointlessly as it may be.

XIII made this particularly painfull as the design of the world you could see around you was so stunning, but you simply couldn't go there to explore it.
Actually, the more I think about it, the parallels to X are quite strong. You even had the large, open, pointless plain towards the end where you could grind up your party for the final stretch.

what made 13 so god dam awful. yes it is true that u had the same linear path to follow in in 10 and 10-2 as u do in 13 but in 13 u just feel a little more closed in, in 10 u get an airship and u can go back to besaid or luca if u wish, and also u are activley encouraged to go back to these places and catch the monsters u needed to make the new super monster in the battle arena. the battle system in 13 is terrible, the battles didn't engage me. and leveling up to get past a boss was a chore, even the system of changing stance was a let down. the battle system in FF12 was bad but this could be forgiven as it was a good game with many side quests and a good story. which brings me to the storyline in FF 13, many ppl say FF13 is story driven, so is FF 6 7 8 9 10, in fact what FF game is not story driven. show me a final fantasy game, and i'll show u a great story. so saying FF13 had a great story does not make up for the pile of crap that was bolted around that story. if SE loved that story so much but didn't want to make a great game around it, they should have released it as a dvd! and the item system that was god dam awful.

and i'm going to stop going on now coz i'm upsetting myself with these memory's i have tried to supress

Indeed, the one thing I didn't like about FFX was the lack of a world map. In fact every FF since X has lacked a world map, and the lack of world map has caused a lack of 'secret' content, and a lack of feeling like you're in a world, rather than just a continent. Other games had a world map and thus, had secret content, like how you could get into the waterfall and meet lucretzia in FF7 or go to Cactaur Island in FF8. The world map made people WANT to wander around looking for things, because they could see a huge world with lots of stuff in it that they hadn't seen yet. In FFX you never got to see that stuff, you could only see an area from within that area, not from a zoomed out perspective of the world (well.... you could, but you couldn't run around on that zoomed out perspective, you could only choose a destination), same goes for FFXII and FFXIII. I can only hope FFXV brings back the good ol' world map and let's us explore the far reaches of the planet it puts us on once again.

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Originally Posted by grandm

what made 13 so god dam awful. yes it is true that u had the same linear path to follow in in 10 and 10-2 as u do in 13 but in 13 u just feel a little more closed in, in 10 u get an airship and u can go back to besaid or luca if u wish, and also u are activley encouraged to go back to these places and catch the monsters u needed to make the new super monster in the battle arena. the battle system in 13 is terrible, the battles didn't engage me. and leveling up to get past a boss was a chore, even the system of changing stance was a let down. the battle system in FF12 was bad but this could be forgiven as it was a good game with many side quests and a good story. which brings me to the storyline in FF 13, many ppl say FF13 is story driven, so is FF 6 7 8 9 10, in fact what FF game is not story driven. show me a final fantasy game, and i'll show u a great story. so saying FF13 had a great story does not make up for the pile of crap that was bolted around that story. if SE loved that story so much but didn't want to make a great game around it, they should have released it as a dvd! and the item system that was god dam awful.

and i'm going to stop going on now coz i'm upsetting myself with these memory's i have tried to supress

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I dunno, I really can't bring myself to play FFXII very far at all. I look at the world it's in, I look at and listen to the main character, I try to use the god awfull battle system, and I think, "I want nothing to do with this garbage, why do I have to train this douche to put a hat on his head? Is he really so dumb?", then I look at FFXIII and how it's a fast paced action style RPG with a battle system that just keeps flowing with hardly any pause, with amazing cut-scenes and great music and interesting characters and I think, "This smells faintly of FFX, which I thought was pretty good."

But then that could also be down to a difference of perspective, I like the pseudo-futuristic FF's like FF6, 7, 8 and X so XIII was my kind of thing, where as the more old style fantasy of XII with it's castles and stuff makes it all feel a bit cliche. Then also taking into account that the futuristic FF's tend to have a much faster pace to them, where as XII was just plain slow. The story was slow, running around the city was slow, the battle system was so slow it was unbearable.

konachibi i guess we are just different , least we can agree 10 was good

Indeed.

It's all down to personal preference, sometimes a game will come out that will cater for a large majority that prefer that kind of game and it'll do well, but then sometimes that game will only appeal to a small minority and not do so well but still be loved by the ones that like it. The only difference between something like that is a game that goes the minority route ends up getting a worse slamming because there's more people saying they hate it than there is people saying they like it. FFXIV has pretty much gone down that same route. Many people love it, but there's many more people that hate it.

This all leads full circle over to the topic at hand though. A lot of the people still playing FFXIV despite it's many flaws do seem to be the people that remember how the classic traditional RPG style worked, and why it was so enjoyable, where as those that hadn't touched an RPG before WoW left in a hurry, then went and screamed about how bad they thought the game was.

But nowadays we're living in a world where CoD reigns the multiplayer deathmatch, Duke Nukem receives bad reviews for being rude, and games like Mass Effect are considered RPGs. Back then, Unreal Tournament owned the deathmatch crown, Duke Nukem was applauded for his rude behaviour and party mouth, and Mass Effect would have been called an action shoot 'em up.

None of 'this generation' of gamers have a grasp on what we once perceived was the 'right' way games should work, so when they see FFXIV and the way it operates using plot and cut-scenes, and feels more like the RPG genre we remember rather than the speed-through-quick ones of today, they take it as wrong, when we feel it is right. Sadly though we are the whispers to their shouts. :(

I thought this thread might have been about the .Golden box games or Tandy rpg old-school. This Demon Souls game is sounding almost interesting enough to buy a PS3

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

I thought this thread might have been about the .Golden box games or Tandy rpg old-school. This Demon Souls game is sounding almost interesting enough to buy a PS3

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Demons Souls is the best RPG on PS3 and maybe the best RPG of last decade. Although, be warned it's extremely difficult, there is no easy mode, and it just gets more difficult as you play. However, the sense of accomplishment you feel after you beat it is like getting a relic in XI. Also, if you got 360 you can buy Dark Souls on the 5th and that's a spiritual successor to Demons Souls, but it's even more difficult.

This picture accurately describes it
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._8374213_n.jpg

Old skool enough not to click a link that's gonna take me to IGN...

I think the problem with 13 was a combination of camera illusions and the fact that they restrict your exploration too much. It's rather similar to 10, with the difference being that 10 allowed you to backtrack almost entirely freely, had a plethora of mini-games to spice up the journey, and had a love story you could actually feel involved with.

I actually kinda liked 13, not nearly as much as 10 though. Here's some reasons:

Lightning is an exact replica of Cloud, minus the gender difference
- I already played FF7's main char, I didn't need to do so again
- She's an Ex-Soldier, hell-bent on redefining who she is and what she stands for after discovering some unsettling information
- She's both highly emotional and void of emotion (depending on the situation), for example "a target's a target" and all that matters is the end result, but when anything has to do with Serah she goes apeshit

A disconnected love story
- The main character is Lightning, why the hell is she a loner for the whole game?
- Having a love story (involving main character(s)) might be corny, but it was a very structural aspect to the old titles we enjoy
- Sure, Serah and Snow are an item, but they aren't really seen as main characters so there is a feeling of disconnection
- In most FF games there is a character that is clearly defined as "you" for the duration of the game, that character is typically involved in some sort of romantic scenario, Lightning has none (some examples would be FF4, FF8, FF9, FF10), another bad scenario game was FF12, same deal as 13, disconnected, Vaan was a useless char whose role you're forced to assume while the story goes on around you and you're hardly important lol

Minigames
- Juggernaut minigame
- Chocobo hide and seek
- Cie'th stone missions (I guess, but these are required)

Now for the comparative FF10 points

Tidus was a "new" character
- Though exhibiting a lot of stereotypical or cliche "RPG main dude" traits, Tidus wasn't a carbon-copy of previous FF characters

An engaging love story
- In FF10 the player takes on the role of Tidus, who is directly involved with Yuna
- Over the course of the game's events you can see their relationship build and you become attached
- FF10 is a game that appeals to basic human emotion through events you can relate to

Minigames
- Blitzball
- Chocobo racing/training
- Aeon Trials (I guess, but these are required)
- Butterfly chest hunt/race
- Sphere Break
- Monster arena activities
- I'm probably missing a couple more, a few in the Calm Lands I think

In conclusion, FF13 was pretty good but it could have been so much better if SE stuck to their roots.

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Originally Posted by Cichy

Demons Souls is the best RPG on PS3 and maybe the best RPG of last decade. Although, be warned it's extremely difficult, there is no easy mode, and it just gets more difficult as you play. However, the sense of accomplishment you feel after you beat it is like getting a relic in XI. Also, if you got 360 you can buy Dark Souls on the 5th and that's a spiritual successor to Demons Souls, but it's even more difficult.

This picture accurately describes it
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._8374213_n.jpg

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Dark Souls isn't a 360 exclusive, not sure where you got the idea lol

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Originally Posted by Archadius

Dark Souls isn't a 360 exclusive, not sure where you got the idea lol

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It might as well be since Atlus will have to go all low-res with it in order to get it to run on that POS.

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Originally Posted by Archadius

Dark Souls isn't a 360 exclusive, not sure where you got the idea lol

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He said he would consider buying PS3 to get Demons Souls, Demons Souls is PS3 exclusive.
I said you can instead wait for Dark Souls which is going to be on both consoles and save yourself buying a PS3 if he has an Xbox

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Originally Posted by Cichy

He said he would consider buying PS3 to get Demons Souls, Demons Souls is PS3 exclusive.
I said you can instead wait for Dark Souls which is going to be on both consoles and save yourself buying a PS3 if he has an Xbox

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That makes much more sense. I must've missed something. Thanks for clarifying!