Ingenuity II bugged? Careful Synthesis II capped? huh

Lately I've been noticing 0 increase in Progress while under the effect of Ingenuity II and using Careful Synthesis II.
It began when I was crafting Sour Cream(51) as my Culinarian(57). An unbuffed CSII did 200 progress. While a Ingenuity II buffed CSII also did 200 progress.

I began to test this as a weaver(specialist 60).
Here are my findings:

• CSII on Rainbow Cloth : 247 progress
• CSII on Rainbow Cloth w/ Ingenuity II : 247 Progress
• CSII on Woolen Yarn : 256 progress
• CSII on Woolen Yarn w/ Ingenuity : 256 progress

Now as a specialist I have use of Whistle While You Work which boosts your Progress gain if you do a progress action when it's at a stack multiple of 3.

• CSII on Woolen Yarn w/ Whistle 9 stack : 362 progress
• CSII on Woolen Yarn w/ Whistle 9 stack & Ingenuity II : 362 progress

So Whistle worked, but Ingenuity II still fails to do anything.
I switched over to ARM(54) and worked on Mythrite Ingots(51)

• CSII on Mythrite Ingot : 160 progress
• CSII on Mythrite Ingot w/ Ingenuity II : 183 progress

wtf ? So Ingenuity II ended up working on my ARM(54) but why didn't it work on the other crafts?

* Is CSII bugged?
* Is Ingenuity II bugged? or is this that insignificant.
* Are we hard capped?
* Am I trippin'?

Try using Ing 2 on a craft that is closer to your level.

Recipes have a difficulty value. Ing and Ing 2 reduce that difficulty penalty, but only so long as the recipe is around or above your own level. At least, that's what I think is going on.

Ing 2 is really useful for hitting level 55 and 56 recipes when you are only 54.

So I'm guessing it's one of those misleading tooltips? "Lowers recipe level" seems to me like it would work on any level synthesis :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlereRaeder

So I'm guessing it's one of those misleading tooltips? "Lowers recipe level" seems to me like it would work on any level synthesis :(

---

no it only works on higher Level recipes,
ingenuity I sest the recipe to your Level and ingneuity II sets the recipe below your Level (i think it was roughly 3 Level) it helps a lot when recipes are even 1 Level above you (or whebn they have a star) but is Close to useless/totally useless when used on recipes on or below your Level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tam_Hawkins

no it only works on higher Level recipes,
ingenuity I sest the recipe to your Level and ingneuity II sets the recipe below your Level

---

That's what it was at 2.0 release, but they changed it around the time they added 3 star recipes. They changed it to lowering the recipe level by a fixed number.

Ingenuity 2 lowers the recipe level to YOUR current level so progress would not change

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rwc222

Ingenuity 2 lowers the recipe level to YOUR current level so progress would not change

---

Again, that was was 2.0 and was changed patch 2.2:

Quote:

---

In preparation for crafting balance adjustments forthcoming in patch 2.3, the effects of the blacksmith actions Ingenuity and Ingenuity II have been adjusted.

Ingenuity
Before: Lowers recipe level to current level for the next five steps.
After: Slightly lowers recipe level for the next five steps.

Ingenuity II
Before: Lowers recipe level three below current level for the next five steps.
After: Lowers recipe level for the next five steps.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Again, that was was 2.0 and was changed patch 2.2:

---

nice quote.

however the returns are diminishing when the item is at your level or even lower. so being you're 57 and the recipe is 51 you'll get almost nothing. HOWEVER that's not the strict case for if there is a STAR next to the item. Those behave differently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by javid

however the returns are diminishing when the item is at your level or even lower. so being you're 57 and the recipe is 51 you'll get almost nothing.

---

Yes, but it does keep increasing.

OP said he was level 60 on WVR, cloth is 51 recipe, thread is 38.

9 levels above recipe level gives 247
22 levels above recipe level gives 256

That extra 13 levels increases progress by 9, but ING II does nothing, that's the issue.

Keep in mind the recipe levels aren't exactly "lvl51". When you are lvl50, doing a "lvl51" synth was pretty damn close to making a 4 stars synth in difficulty.
1 Stars back in 2.xx were roughtly lvl55.
2 Stars were lvl70.
3 stars lvl90.
4 stars lvl110.

Synths we make when we are lvl51 result in ilvl115 items.
Synths we make at lvl57 result in ilvl139 items, which would result in a difference of ilvl of 24, when we actually raised our own level by only 6.

What was happening when we used ingenuity1/2 on lvl26 as we were lvl50? Absolutly nothing or very close to. I think that's what you are observing, Ingenuities works but with the actual "synth levels" differences it does pretty damn close to nothing.

The tooltip doesn't even say things like "Heads up, this skill will become completely useless the more you level later" or actually explaining how the action worked.
Even when 4 star came out ingenuities started to gleam "I suck". I always gave it the benefit of the doubt but wow it really is useless

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Horobi

What was happening when we used ingenuity1/2 on lvl26 as we were lvl50? Absolutly nothing or very close to. I think that's what you are observing, Ingenuities works but with the actual "synth levels" differences it does pretty damn close to nothing.

---

If I interpreted this correctly, you mean to say ingenuity is useless for synths too hard AND too easy for you to craft?.
Making this skill used for crafts that are a bit hard/easy; therefore, deleting it's existence because crafts aren't impossible even if they are 1-2 levels above yours. The gain you get from ingenuity is like an extra grain of sugar in your coffee.

My understanding is that you get a bonus to progress for each level you are above the craft level. The amount of the 'bonus per level' deceases the further you get away from the craft level and eventually peters out, so you'll notice a big difference between being 1 level higher and 3 levels higher (each level increase here being worth a big boost), but little difference between being 4 levels higher and 6 levels higher (each level increase here being worth little boost). I can't remember now where the cut off is, but certainly once you're 10 levels above the craft level it should be the same as being 11 (or 20, or 50) levels higher as the bonus per level has become zero.

There is penalty to both progress and quality gain if the craft level is above you, which basically works the same way in reverse. The penalty increases sharply for each level the craft is above you initially, but it peters out and eventually reaches a maximum penalty. (Again, I can't remember exactly where the cut off is.)

The Ingenuity skills (as amended) reduce the craft level to try and mitigate the penalties and/or increase the bonus in line with the above. If you are already 5+ levels above the craft you will notice little if any difference as you have already maxed out (or nearly maxed out) the bonus. If the craft is significantly above your level then you may also notice little difference, as the gap between your level and the adjusted craft level is still so great as to give the maximum (or near maximum) penalties. It is for this last reason that Ingenuity II was pointless in 4* star recipes and of limited value in 3* recipes pre-HW. It is overall fair to say that you have to be in the same broad range of levels as the craft level in order to feel any impact.

Take the actual numbers above with a pinch of salt (particularly as it is still unclear how craft levels work on the new recipes) but the reasoning I believe is sound.


Hope that helps :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlereRaeder

If I interpreted this correctly, you mean to say ingenuity is useless for synths too hard AND too easy for you to craft?.
Making this skill used for crafts that are a bit hard/easy; therefore, deleting it's existence because crafts aren't impossible even if they are 1-2 levels above yours. The gain you get from ingenuity is like an extra grain of sugar in your coffee.

---

Pretty much. It has good uses within a level difference "window", when you're out of that window it won't help much.

ingen 2 is working how it should. it only gives a boost on recipes higher level than your own. so when at 60 youll need to use it on * recipes to see it in action otherwise it does nothing.

your all just to use to making recipes with a higher difficulty and so use to seeing it work.

if you have an unlevelled class try making the highest level recipe you can and use ingen 2, youll see a big difference in cs2's progress then.