Unchained, when do I use it?

I'm fairly new to Warrior tanking. I am level 48, and I generally use Steel Cyclone on trash mobs for the extra AOE damage and enmity because sometimes DPS don't focus on a single mob and they can get a bit scattered.

I use Inner Beast on pretty much every single target boss just because big damage, reduced damage taken, and a heal. Why not?

So...when do I EVER want to use Unchained???

Unchained will add up to more damage than simply one Inner Beast. If you want a pretty potent combo, use Unchained, Berserk, Bloodbath (Right after you've refreshed maim) for some serious damage and nice self healing. When you're 50, you can add Infuriate into your combo to allow either an instant Inner Beast or Steel Cyclone. Unchained is an extremely strong skill and becomes even stronger when used with Berserk.

It's situational I'd say. If you see you are not taking a lot of damage and/or have other cooldowns that will take care of the incoming damage, then use Unchained. Try to think of yourself as someone trying to push out a lot of damage whenever you can, while still being able to handle tank busters and incoming damage.

As you get familiar with boss patterns or when the high damage comes in, you will start to feel more comfortable about using Unchained. There is actually a boss in the Aery I tank almost entirely in Deliverance stance. I pull while still in Defiance, pop Unchained, build some aggro, then swap to Deliverance and deal as much damage as I can, as the other cooldowns will keep me up and the healers don't break a sweat. I have a friend who likes to troll me when I tank and so she threw a smoke bomb while I was in Deliverance (DPS stance) and still I didn't lose aggro, thanks to the initial pull with Unchain (and making sure I don't forget my threat combos).

Next time I went into the same instance, I knew I could tank also the next boss in Deliverance, although I stance danced there. Again opened with Unchained + Defiance.

So trying to think ahead with the incoming damage, and that will help you decide when to use Unchained, or even when to swap to Deliverance.

Think they covered it OP. UC is about maximizing damage during time frames. example time frames are on initial pull when you have aggressive DPS, times when the group is having issues on DPS checks, during burn phases, etc. The extra damage also means extra threat. but you usually want to avoid using things that ignore the damage penalty as well, like inner beast, and you want to make sure you maximize it by staying in Defiance until it's out (as an example if you want to build threat before switching to Deliverance).

It's more of a timed skill then a spam as much as available. IB tends to be the default go-to (for obvious reasons), UC during burn phases or off the gate for max DPS/threat. stuff like that. I use it allot when im running with max geared DPS. fighting a Dragoon for threat isn't a fun thing :D usually if you pop UC out of the gate it helps allot.

Warrior is such a fun class... I hit 50 today and I can't wait to get those last 10 levels!

This may still be the case for WAR when Alex raid comes out, but Unchained was about maximizing your damage during certain periods in boss fights, which is excellent because it allows you to stay in tank mode while dealing very respectable amounts of damage.

However, Unchained may lose it's overall value due to the addition of Deliverance. Probably not in raid settings but I will tell you this, in the HW dungeon Sohm Al, all three bosses have several charging modes where they don't even strike the tank for long periods of time. During these bosses I pile on threat, switch to Deliverance, and dish out serious ouchies on the bosses. It's fun to watch a boss get crushed by three massive ethereal saw blades!

I like to pair it with berserk + bloodbacth for first use then keep it on CD when in defiance, unless an add phase is coming up then i save it and blow it on them.

I usually used Unchained as part of my opener.

Infuriate -> Unchained -> Bloodbath -> Internal Release -> Berserk mixed in between my Maim/Storms combo.. it's usually enough to hold plenty of hate till I get off my enmity combo to follow. Then I use it any time it's up because it's almost always better to have the damage increase. Inner Beast hits and ignores Defiance... but Infuriate is every subsequent attack for it's duration ignores defiance penalty. It's much more damage than one inner beast.

I've begun using it on cooldown now and I can tell the difference in clearing dungeons and everything! Is there a Warrior guide anywhere for how to play/gear/etc.. like all the DPS classes in the DPS roles forum? Even DRK seems to have a guide here.

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Originally Posted by Krissey

I've begun using it on cooldown now and I can tell the difference in clearing dungeons and everything! Is there a Warrior guide anywhere for how to play/gear/etc.. like all the DPS classes in the DPS roles forum? Even DRK seems to have a guide here.

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If there is, it's been burried. Search youtube for Xenosys. Atleast for 50+, he's considered a good building block for up and coming warriors.

Oh, I would also like to add this: When you are standing in front of a boss before the pull and you are waiting for the healer or DPS to get ready and you are sitting in 5 stacks of wrath and watching them tick away, if you have just a few seconds left, popping unchained is a great way to use up those stacks and not let them go to waste, so when you rush at the boss you a have a really decent way to front end your damage and establish loads of threat right from the get go.

I tend to use unchained with Berserk, as follows. Use your 123 combos to get to 4 stacks Wrath. Berserk for 5, Internal Release, Inner Beast. Infuriate > Unchained. 123 to 4 stacks, Vengeance for 5, Inner Beast, and at that point, you're pacified, and out of Unchained.

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Originally Posted by Isala

I tend to use unchained with Berserk, as follows. Use your 123 combos to get to 4 stacks Wrath. Berserk for 5, Internal Release, Inner Beast. Infuriate > Unchained. 123 to 4 stacks, Vengeance for 5, Inner Beast, and at that point, you're pacified, and out of Unchained.

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I've been doing this and it puts me so far ahead of other tanks that even if they try to rip aggro off me they simply cannot due to the immense aggro generated in a burst at the beginning. That said, these are simply the (Hard) Primals for the Relic quest, Hydra and Chimera... so no tank swaps needed.

pre-50: whenever it's up and you've got 5 stacks

50 and beyond: single target = Infuriate -> Tomahawk/Overpower -> Unchained -> HS -> Brutal Swing -> Maim -> IR + Berserk -> Storm's Eye -> HS -> SS -> BB -> Fracture -> HS -> IB -> Brutal Swing -> Maim -> Storm's Eye (MT only, can replace IB with Fell Cleave and enter Deliverance before Fracture if IB isn't needed)

multi-target = Unchained + Bloodbath -> OP -> IR + Berserk -> OP spam

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

pre-50: whenever it's up and you've got 5 stacks

50 and beyond: single target = Infuriate -> Tomahawk/Overpower -> Unchained -> HS -> Brutal Swing -> Maim -> IR + Berserk -> Storm's Eye -> HS -> SS -> BB -> Fracture -> HS -> IB -> Brutal Swing -> Maim -> Storm's Eye (MT only, can replace IB with Fell Cleave and enter Deliverance before Fracture if IB isn't needed)

multi-target = Unchained + Bloodbath -> OP -> IR + Berserk -> OP spam

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So I understand as an off-tank you basically probably don't need to put up Storm's Eye (The damage debuff one), and can stick to the Storm's Path to help out Ninja, and BB for the most potency combo, throw in Fell Cleave etc when DPSing.

However as the main tank, in order to help my NIN friends, how do I keep up Storm's Eye and Storm's Path and use Butcher's Block without letting any of them fall off?

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Originally Posted by Krissey

So I understand as an off-tank you basically probably don't need to put up Storm's Eye (The damage debuff one), and can stick to the Storm's Path to help out Ninja, and BB for the most potency combo, throw in Fell Cleave etc when DPSing.

However as the main tank, in order to help my NIN friends, how do I keep up Storm's Eye and Storm's Path and use Butcher's Block without letting any of them fall off?

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So long as I'm paying attention;
HS->Maim->Path
HS->SS->BB
HS->Maim->Eye
Rinse, repeat. Should catch the Path right after it falls off and the same with Eye when you get back to it.
20 second durations and roughly 7.5 seconds between each combo set, the whole thing takes about 22 seconds from start to finish. So the debuffs are both up almost all the time with about a second or 2 at teh most downtime.
Its not perfect, but it worked well enough for me through 2.x.

The way I do it is I make a choice. After my opener, I very rarely need to actually use Butcher's Block - the threat you gain from popping all your offensive buffs with Maim and Eye up pretty much seals your hate against everyone. Eventually I might have to BB, in which case I'll usually just let Path fall off for those few GCDs and then go back to SE -> SP -> repeat.

If damage is more valuable than the mitigation (aka any content where my healer's aren't stressed for healing), I'll drop SP entirely and just SE -> BB -> repeat. But usually this is just 4man dungeons and stuff, I value SP pretty heavily for any 8man stuff.

This also sorta assumes you've got a decent enough weapon to keep hate against the DPS. The worse your weapon, the more times you'll have to BB. You also might not be able to get away with opening with Eye if your weapon isn't up to par, as you're generating enmity solely through damage and offensive buffs - no enmity multipliers involved. If that's the case, you should open with BB -> Eye -> BB. Unfortunately that's the worst of the two options, but it's not something you can fix unless you get a better weapon.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Unfortunately that's the worst of the two options, but it's not something you can fix unless you get a better weapon.

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I bought an illvl 115 Axe from a vendor in Ishgarde when I dinged 50 immediately, just in case you are refering to my ilvl 90 Bravura. I am doing the relic quest for fun, because it is the iconic Warrior weapon from the artwork and I want to take it to maximum glowy/spell effects without changing it into the double bladed axe where it loses the recognizable iconic form. So I think I'll be stopping at Nexus, which will probably be better than the vendor axe of equal ilvl i bought.

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Originally Posted by Krissey

I bought an illvl 115 Axe from a vendor in Ishgarde when I dinged 50 immediately, just in case you are refering to my ilvl 90 Bravura. I am doing the relic quest for fun, because it is the iconic Warrior weapon from the artwork and I want to take it to maximum glowy/spell effects without changing it into the double bladed axe where it loses the recognizable iconic form. So I think I'll be stopping at Nexus, which will probably be better than the vendor axe of equal ilvl i bought.

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I was just speaking in general, there's a lot of tanks out there undergeared trying to pull off DPS shenanigans and it's not really helping them out. P:

The Bravura is a really nice axe, though - especially at the later glowy stages, so keep at it. It is a bit tiny, but that might just be because of my equally tiny lalafell body.

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Originally Posted by Krocodile

Oh, I would also like to add this: When you are standing in front of a boss before the pull and you are waiting for the healer or DPS to get ready and you are sitting in 5 stacks of wrath and watching them tick away, if you have just a few seconds left, popping unchained is a great way to use up those stacks and not let them go to waste, so when you rush at the boss you a have a really decent way to front end your damage and establish loads of threat right from the get go.

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A good point but what I do now is Steel Cyclone then switch to Deliverance + Berserk. However I only used Unchained now when I'm the dedicated mt or solo tanking hard content. You're better off switching to Deliverance and just doing Fell Cleaves. Of course this only applies to HW content.

If I trust my healers and know the fight I'm heading into, I'll do Infuriate > Unchained > Berserk > Tomahawk to pull (instant massive aggro), do Storm's Eye and BB combo and then drop Defiance the second Unchained wears off and just keep it off to deal more damage, using Vengeance, Foresight and Bloodbath over time to keep incoming damage down. When Unchained comes back up, I Infuriate > Unchained again to give my healers some relief without bringing my damage output down too much. Of course it gets more interesting now with Deliverance but I've not played around with it enough. :P

Unchained should just be up with berserk if u cant stance dance.with the current content it isnt much necessary. ;) its 4 WAR MT dps push . :)

Unchained is used when you know you're not about to get hit by big damage within the next combos to get another 5 stacks of wrath for IB; it's there to maximize dmg while in Defiance. I use 5 pre-existing wrath stacks to get IB in just before a tank crunch then infuriate > Unchained to hammer in more DPS. Great for supplementing a raid that wants to push phases.

Just my 2 cents

I use unchained in the pull if I have full stacks going in. And some people may not agree with me but I'll start off with infuriate to give myself 5 stacks on the pull. It just makes it easier to establish threat that way. May not be at all necessary but I have near zero issues with initial aggro unless I get that dumb ass dps who wants to balls to the wall the boss before I even hot the thing with a tomahawk.

Other than that, I will use unchained only during a burn phase... Assuming I'm even in defiance at that point. At higher levels I'm either in deliverance post 52 or out of defiance below 52 after I have my threat established. Unless the healer needs me to be in defiance.