This game really needs class tutorials for new players.

It's not terribly uncommon to que for low level roulettes and get something like the Stone Vigil and to be partied with people who have literally no idea how to play their class at level 41. It's frustrating when a run takes an extra 10-15 minutes because the only skill your summoner has hotkeyed is Ruin, or your tank think's Riot Blade is their bread and butter and at the same time sad to think what a piss-poor game experience they probably have since they're probably constantly votekicked and raged at. You can try to mentor them and sometimes it works, but a lot of times they flat out ignore friendly advice or say they understand then continue spamming riot blade. Since this game tries to appeal to both the console and casual markets, we get a lot of first-time MMOers who are probably doesn't even know about the trinity of party make-up. I can't help but feel that adding a small level 15 class tutorial (to be done before queing for Satasha) in which the players need to demonstrate a basic understanding of their class would make both their experience and that of everyone they play with much better.

Tutorials would explain the basics of the class, then ask them to demonstrate their new knowledge with something like:
-Summoner has to kill 3 targets within a time limit which can only be achieved through DoTing multiple targets.
-Tanks have to demonstrate they can hold aoe aggro while fighting with NPCs and that they can hold single-target aggro against a friendly NPC that deals substantial damage.
-Monk/Dragoon/Nin? must burn down a single target, but should be difficult to achieve without proper use of positional skills or combos.

they have class tutorials its called levelling from 1 to 50, by the time you hit 50 your meant to understand how the job works .

the issue being is most people bum rush fates or other means to level up they refuse to learn there class because it might be to slow. :c

Aren't guildhests and class/job quests already doing this?, i mean if you don't use certain job specific abilities in those job quests you basically die or fail.

I think Limit Break needs a small tutorial. I don't know how many times now I've had to explain how it works, where to find it, and wait for the DPS to put it on their hot bar. XD No one past level 45, thankfully. It's something that everyone should know about, but its easily overlooked when you're new.

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Originally Posted by Onikimaru

Aren't guildhests and class/job quests already doing this?, i mean if you don't use certain job specific abilities in those job quests you basically die or fail.

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Yup, but...
*points to all the threads about how the storyline/class/sidequests are useless and they should be removed/shortened*
Can't tell you how many times I've played a df and have to stop to explain to a mage that you should NOT spam blizzard or thunder and that you should've known this from the class quests (their response? "Oh, well, I usually skip over those. ^^' ").

I'll never understand this mentality. I get that you paid for the sub, but SE can't play your class for you. >.>;

low level dungeons are tutorials.

You can't help people who don't want to help themselves.

It isn't up to SE, or any gaming company for that matter, to tell players the optimal rotation for the number of monsters they are fighting. I know people play games for different reasons, but learning how to play to the best of their ability in something that is in every game. There is a form of "button mashing" in every game from chess to shooters to MMOs.

I remember in beta, the class quests had a moderate difficulty level. So much so in fact that you almost needed to go level up arcanist or conjurer a bit first just so you could have cure on your bar. If you couldn't play your class properly you would fail everytime, and there was no echo.

Of course there was a vocal minority that when they lost repeatedly, ran right to the forums and cried for nerfs. There were a few people that argued that the difficulty was tuned just right as it forced you to learn to play, and that without this skill requirement you'd start to see level 50s who have no clue what they are doing.

But alas, we can see by the present situation who won that argument.

I encountered a Tank in a guildhest who just done Riot blade, not idea why they pref it over the Aggro combo maybe because they just see Base potency is the highest. I tried to tell him what's he's Aggro combo is but he was french so I used auto translate and he still didn't do it.

That beining sad I've found players who I told this is how you do it and they done it. So all in all it's more down to them if they want to learn or not.

This wouldn't help.
You know why it wouldn't help?

Because there's a gladiator class quest at level 10 that specifically teaches you how to use flash to hold aggro off of an NPC you're protecting, and people STILL don't know how to tank.

People are dumb.

The whole game with its dungeons, job quests and guildhests up to lvl50 is one GIANT TUTORIAL! There's a tutorial literally about everything and help windows all over the place, skill tooltips and all that.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

This is the result of everyone so intent on blitzing to end levels. EVERY guide that I've seen out there, every tutorial tells players how to play their job from a level 60 perspective. I have yet to see one that tells people what skills they should be observing as they progress through the ranks. A LOT of players have gotten into the mentality that you have to get to top level and then learn your job, when you really need to be learning your job as you get to top level. If someone has to tell you how to use your combos at end levels, "ya dun f**ked up" somewhere.

In other games, if a player doesn't learn the skills he needs to, he dies. Here, he doesn't die until he is holding back a group of people. If anything, they need to make the class/job tutorial content more difficult so if the player isn't performing well they will perish repeatedly.

People simply don't read. Then again I don't understand why people would play an RPG, where reading is a REQUIREMENT. Mayhaps an FPS game is better suited for them.

Class/job quests, low level dungeons, guildhests - the tutorials are there. You can't help people who are ignorant and can't be bothered to, y'know, actually attempt to learn, at least.

The amount of "handholding spoon feeding and tutorials" in this game is beyond astounding. But you will be hard press to find those players who has the ability to read their tool tips on what each ability does and which one combo to which. Personally I would suggest to GATE every single content in the game until casual cassie is able to pass extremely strict "tutorial" on how to play their class. I feel those class quest every 5 levels are way way way too easy - it needs to be very hard so that when you pass it, you really know what to do. But then you will see those hordes of "CAN WE GET THE ENTIRE GAME UNLOCKED" so I don't have to lift a single finger and get to max level with max ability and gears cuz I want to play on the hardest raid extreme everything!!!

And people wonder why we have so many "idiot proof" dialogue boxes.

"ARE YOU ABSOLUTELY SURE YOU WANT TO EXCHANGE YOUR TOMESTONES FOR THIS PIECE OF GEAR YOU CAN'T EQUIP?"

-Yes

*runs off to complain that they bought the wrong item*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinfeld

It's not terribly uncommon to que for low level roulettes and get something like the Stone Vigil and to be partied with people who have literally no idea how to play their class at level 41. It's frustrating when a run takes an extra 10-15 minutes because the only skill your summoner has hotkeyed is Ruin, or your tank think's Riot Blade is their bread and butter and at the same time sad to think what a piss-poor game experience they probably have since they're probably constantly votekicked and raged at. You can try to mentor them and sometimes it works, but a lot of times they flat out ignore friendly advice or say they understand then continue spamming riot blade. Since this game tries to appeal to both the console and casual markets, we get a lot of first-time MMOers who are probably doesn't even know about the trinity of party make-up. I can't help but feel that adding a small level 15 class tutorial (to be done before queing for Satasha) in which the players need to demonstrate a basic understanding of their class would make both their experience and that of everyone they play with much better.

Tutorials would explain the basics of the class, then ask them to demonstrate their new knowledge with something like:
-Summoner has to kill 3 targets within a time limit which can only be achieved through DoTing multiple targets.
-Tanks have to demonstrate they can hold aoe aggro while fighting with NPCs and that they can hold single-target aggro against a friendly NPC that deals substantial damage.
-Monk/Dragoon/Nin? must burn down a single target, but should be difficult to achieve without proper use of positional skills or combos.

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So, I think you have a solid issue in mind but you're stabbing at it the wrong way. The leveling process in every RPG is best used as a tool to educate your players on how to play. That's why in multi-button MMORPGs like WoW, Rift, Wakfu and XIV you unlock abilities at certain milestones. Unfortunately, not everyone understands this as the intent. I have a friend who's wife attempted to pick up WoW and got all the way to 54 thinking that white damage (referred to as auto attack elsewhere) was the fastest way to single target.

One must keep in mind that this is, ultimately, a social game; obviously more in the tradition of Cards Against Humanity or Poker rather than Farmville or FFRK, the primary engagement is supposed to be social. The developers of this type of game usually expect players to involve some level of research and discovery to get factored into the learning process.

In short, we are supposed to teach these people.

Of course, the difference between this and, for example, Rift is that the devs attempted to add a sort of "shallow end" to this educational curve by locking most of the really technical spells and all of the high-level content behind a quest. This is basically intended to tell us we need to finish mastering one skill before the next gets unlocked. It is supposed to feel like they're saying "before we give you desert we want to make sure you've eaten your spinach".

This may require a few tweaks in the system design. Maybe they should lock even the low level dungeon behind the class quest of appropriate level. For example, maybe they could say "If you want to run Satasha as a Lancer you must first complete the lvl 15 Lancer quest. They do it already for 8 mans with guildhests, I don't think it would be that big a stretch since the infrastructure is already in place.

Fortunately, I am certain the social aspects of this issue are largely soluble with a few minor changes in the mindset of the community. I think a few minor tweaks --- such as DPS exclusive dungeon commendations --- would go a long way to helping us understand that other players aren't just stepping stones to the next loot piece. I would certainly stick around to Com the guy who showed that Summoner how to use something other than Ruin and that would definitely encourage her to mentor any other Summoners she runs into. Very often all it takes is a pat on the back for your hard work to encourage you to improve.

Remember, negative reinforcement is cumulative, positive reinforcement is exponential.

You all are forgetting that A LOT of new players/return players just WANT to skip all cutscenes to rush to HW content. I was in a dungeon lvl59. In my party there was a dragoon that used not buffs and only 2 skills. Yup, the 1-50 dungeons are not cutting it cuz NEW PEOPLE/ RETURNERS want to be in the same level as active players. With that said, there are exceptions to my statement cuz I know and met new players and return players that knew what cutscenes not to skip and .....(wait for it)......listen and ask for tips from other players that knew the mechanics.