About the Us After the Final Boss of Heavensward (Spoilers)

As the archbishop dies he looks at up at us and sees our face covered in shadow before asking who and what were we? So what exactly did he notice about us that scared him so much? Was it something that changed within us or something that was already there?

I think it doesn't have any meaning for us but more for him.
I mean he turned into an all powerful being thinking he was invincible, when he then looked at us in his dying moments he was full of fear because a mere "mortal" bested him.
In his eyes we were the devil with ungodly powers.

I suspect that's one of the major questions we'll be seeking answers for in the 3.x patch cycle.

It could just be his genuine disbelief that we were able to best his Primal Mode, considering the immense power King Thordan likely had ("a millennium of prayer and the power of the Eye!"). Even at minimum iLv my group absolutely demolished him.

We beat down two Ascians at once, where in 2.5 we had a lot of trouble with just one (Nabriales), took down their Fusion Dance form, and bested one immensely powerful Primal and twelve demi-Primals like it was child's play. I think he's right to be scared of us.

More elaborate theories? I could go all day bringing up more, but for simplicity's sake I'll leave it there.

Thats an scene totaly open to interpretation since we dont know if its a subjective vision or an objective one. It even might mean that the WoL is not as light oriented as he/she seems to be. Maybe even related to Zondiark

It might be a hook for later plots but only time will tell

I interpreted it as Thordan being in disbelief over the fact that we were able to defeat him.

However, I also figured that we were cloaked in shadow because he saw us as evil incarnate, or something along the lines of that. In his mind, he was doing the world a favour, having the power to remove whatever was capable of causing chaos, war, strife and all kinds of unpleasant things. What's eternal peace against perpetuating some lies against silly dragons and bleeding the land dry on Aether? For Thordan, that was an acceptable compromise. At least that's what I think he was fearing; that someone of so immense power is doing things like preventing eternal peace. Thordan saw a god of evil in his last moments... and he knew that practically no one can stand against them now, letting us freely rampage around the countryside and terrorize the smallfolk. :p

Of course, this ignores the possibility of Thordan going off the deep end, as other stories with with fellows convinced of their divine mission tend to show. Would he really stop at troublemakers like the Ascians and Primals, or would he begin seeing everything as an enemy?

I saw that shadowy demon vision of us along the line's of Frollo's final moment in the Disney film The Hunchback of Notre Dame. In his final moment of self righteousness he declared "And He shall smite the wicked, and plunge them into the fiery pit!!" before slipping off of the Gargoyle which, in his final display of insanity, turned into a Living Devil as it broke off the Church and sent him falling to his death.

Same with Thorden, in his final moments as his self righteousness lead to his doom, the person that had bested him (Us) mentally because "The Devil Within" thus his shock and horror as he dissipated. A fitting end for a crazy old man who wanted to be a god.

I'm just disappointed that it was so easy to curb stomp. If it turns out he drops Law tomes I may farm him instead of dungeons as easy as it is.

My initial thoughts were that we were just absolutely ticked off, showing extreme hatred towards him for all the pain and sorrow he caused us and that was giving us a "dark" aura. He would have known that the fight was more than just us slaying a Primal, this was a very personal fight of vengeance.

After thinking, its hard to say. I do agree that he was thinking he was absolutely in the right, that any who opposed him were evil, so seeing us as this devil-god is a possibility. It could also have something to do with him dying as a Primal, who knows, maybe all the Primals see us like that as they fall (for some reason I recall at least one or two others questioning us as they die); after all, we are 100% against them and do what we can to keep them from bleeding the land dry.

And then there is the possibility that we just plain aren't what we think we are at all (one of my crazy 2.x theories was we were an Ascian who defected to the Mothercrystal;s side. I'm leaning towards us actually being an Eikon now, or maybe even one of the two still-unknown Celestial Dragons or a descendant of one of the 7)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PArcher

And then there is the possibility that we just plain aren't what we think we are at all (one of my crazy 2.x theories was we were an Ascian who defected to the Mothercrystal;s side. I'm leaning towards us actually being an Eikon now, or maybe even one of the two still-unknown Celestial Dragons or a descendant of one of the 7)

---

Maybe he saw the future. I posted the theory in another threat as well that the Echo might come from Zodiark and eventually every echo user becomes an Ascian if using the echo excessively.

Being a dragon might also work. We are from a foreign land after all.

I think it's pretty simple in a way. We came to Ishgard a disgraced adventurer with a rich kid and Tataru in tow looking for sanctuary. We were strong, but that makes us a better pawn. So they go after our wards, perhaps to use them as a bargaining chip and failed. He then focused us on the Ascians, primals and dragons, hoping we'd take care of his problems so he could focus on his goals. That went too well once he killed Nidhogg.

The Heretics withdrew peacefully from Ishgard, they had to retreat from the Vault, and he had to work with the Ascians once more to get the drop on the WoL. This nobody continued to hunt him and even when his master plan was revealed, he STILL got beaten down.

We came on the breeze, solved many old issues, bested his strongest soldiers and strong holds, removed him from power in several ways, and destroyed him utterly. To him, the WoL was not the God of Destruction, but destruction itself and he stood right in it's path.

I think this was foreshadowing that the WoL is essentially becoming a force for destruction.

The introduction of the WoD and Elidibus' mention of 'equilibrium' means that we're following FFIII's concept of the balance of light and dark. In this context the light and dark are not good and evil but merely two sides of the same coin that must remain in balance for existence to not fall apart. If we as the WoL become much more powerful we could potentially end up destroying everything we've been fighting to protect; we may be a champion of the light but we're becoming a threat to existence itself. I'm beginning to wonder if this may be what Elidibus was referring to when he said we might one day see eye to eye.

Cant wait for the inevitible "the WoL's so called noble deeds from 1.0-3.0 disturbed the natural balance of light and in doing so is causing more harm than good"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alberel

snip.

---

Yeah I have a feeling they are moving the story in this direction considering the last scene and you recall that Elidibus said if we knew the truth we would be on his side or some such. Honestly now I just think the Acsians all have different goals.

Maybe Eldibus and the rest of the ascian never where on the same side they all being inmortal they maybe can't kill one another so they end up being indifferent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waffilicious

Maybe Eldibus and the rest of the ascian never where on the same side they all being inmortal they maybe can't kill one another so they end up being indifferent.

---

We have the known goals of three of them.
Lahabrea wanted Darkness to reign supreme by tipping the scales against the light. (Not unlike how we've tipped it against the dark)
Nebralius wanted for everything, light, dark, existence in general to be destroyed for.... reasons. (An Exdeath Paradox if ever there was one)
And Elidibus who wants to restore balance and is willing to do anything, including manipulating his fellow ascians even to their doom, to restore it. (And it seems he doesn't truly want us destroyed, he's just afraid we got to strong too fast, thus why he got our dark counter part the Warrior of Darkness.)

And is it just me or did the WoD shown look like Derplander from the promotional trailers?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

And is it just me or did the WoD shown look like Derplander from the promotional trailers?

---

It's not just you. Several threads are devoted for this single topic for some reason.

Though i am sure that us turning dark in his eyes is just a foreshadowing to something. I would like to believe that it was just his life fading from him. People that have near death experiences always say that things started going very white and washed out or things start to go very dark. So as his life starts to fade in his eyes we may start to look different which is why we turn dark.

Or since he believes he is doing what is right we are actually his version of evil even though we might be the good guys.

An important distinction to note is that Elidibus isn't saying we're "too strong and are thus upsetting the balance," but that we're getting too strong for the Ascians' plan(s upon plots upon ploys) to work. It's not that we're upsetting the balance, we're just tipping the scales too much for his taste.

Enter Derplander!

Someone posited that the Warrior of Darkness is viewing our accomplishments through the Echo, and I wonder if that's true. What if he is viewing our life and thinks he's the hero, but instead of "Light" they say "Darkness" in his visions, and instead of the Scions he has the Ascians. He had Lahabrea instead of Thancred (they even looked alike that one time!), instead of Yda he had Igeyorhm, and instead of Minfilia he had someone useful, Elidibus! I mean, if that's the case, he likely views us as the one killing his allies, and likely Elidibus treats him like a hero instead of the errand boy we're made to be quite often, which would make sense as to why he's been kept in reserves up to now.

Just a theory.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst

Someone posited that the Warrior of Darkness is viewing our accomplishments through the Echo, and I wonder if that's true. What if he is viewing our life and thinks he's the hero, but instead of "Light" they say "Darkness" in his visions, and instead of the Scions he has the Ascians. He had Lahabrea instead of Thancred (they even looked alike that one time!), instead of Yda he had Igeyorhm, and instead of Minfilia he had someone useful, Elidibus! I mean, if that's the case, he likely views us as the one killing his allies, and likely Elidibus treats him like a hero instead of the errand boy we're made to be quite often, which would make sense as to why he's been kept in reserves up to now.

Just a theory.

---

So like The Ascians and Warrior of Darkness are like an anti-thesis to The Scions and Warrior of Light? That's going down the FF III route of The World of Light and World of Darkness being Parallel worlds/dimensions where neither is truly good or evil. If that's the case, Then Zodiark would be the Word of Darkness' world crystal while Hydaelyn is The World of Light's world crystal. And the fact that Zodiark is some how asleep and or destroyed has something to do with Hydaelyn's existence brings another old theory to mind. That being that The Twelve are neither Gods nor the benevolent beings that The Eorzeans give them credit for.

So now I submit this theory, What if The Twelve were to the World of Zodiark what The Ascians are to the World of Hydaelyn and are the reason Zodiark was destroyed and over run by voidsent like The Cloud of Darkness?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst

Someone posited that the Warrior of Darkness is viewing our accomplishments through the Echo, and I wonder if that's true. What if he is viewing our life and thinks he's the hero, but instead of "Light" they say "Darkness" in his visions, and instead of the Scions he has the Ascians. He had Lahabrea instead of Thancred (they even looked alike that one time!), instead of Yda he had Igeyorhm, and instead of Minfilia he had someone useful, Elidibus! I mean, if that's the case, he likely views us as the one killing his allies, and likely Elidibus treats him like a hero instead of the errand boy we're made to be quite often, which would make sense as to why he's been kept in reserves up to now.

Just a theory.

---

*looks for tinfoil hat can't find it... go's and cry's in a corner in fear of my life secrets being found*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragoelete

*looks for tinfoil hat can't find it... go's and cry's in a corner in fear of my life secrets being found*

---

<Loans Dragoelete one of the dozen Extras he had commissioned>

Never leave home with out one. And have spares at all times. Never know when a lore bomb will go off. lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cilia

An important distinction to note is that Elidibus isn't saying we're "too strong and are thus upsetting the balance," but that we're getting too strong for the Ascians' plan(s upon plots upon ploys) to work. It's not that we're upsetting the balance, we're just tipping the scales too much for his taste.

Enter Derplander!

---

Yea I agree on that. We arent destroying any balance. In did I remember that said that our power is on the level of the gods and that we become a danger to their plans.
And why derplander, dont you think on the change on meting your evil twin? :P

Pretty sure that was just fear, like when criminals look at Batman/Daredevil and see some horrible monster rather than guys in suits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cilia

An important distinction to note is that Elidibus isn't saying we're "too strong and are thus upsetting the balance," but that we're getting too strong for the Ascians' plan(s upon plots upon ploys) to work. It's not that we're upsetting the balance, we're just tipping the scales too much for his taste.

Enter Derplander!

---

Well Elidibus uses the word 'equilibrium' which quite literally means balance so yes... we are upsetting the balance. The entire story so far has been about dualities so it's no surprise the game is using FFIII's balance of light and dark.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alberel

Well Elidibus uses the word 'equilibrium' which quite literally means balance so yes... we are upsetting the balance. The entire story so far has been about dualities so it's no surprise the game is using FFIII's balance of light and dark.

---

What he says, specifically, is:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elidibus

Without intervention, the balance between Light and Darkness will (soon) begin to shift, placing our mission in jeopardy. ... Equilibrium must needs be restored.

---

From what I gather he's not concerned about the state of the world (in that sense), but that our power is threatening their mission. It's basically him freaking out (stoically) that we killed Igeyorhm and (indirectly) Lahabrea, as well as the ridiculously powerful King Thordan and his Knights Twelve. We are tipping the scales, but that's not what he's directly worried about.

I wouldn't say the game's theme is duality. 2.0 had something of this going on (we fight the absolute chaos of the beast tribes, then the absolute order of the Garleans), 2.x was mostly about political intrigue, and 3.0 was about the cycle of revenge.

Nah we secretly share immense power with the warriors of dark.
The end :p

Well, the image does share the depiction other Eorzeans have stated of the "warriors of light" when they lost their memories.

That said, I would like to think that our feats of strength and propensity for overwork might mean that there's something fundamentally off with us. We may be staring into the aetherial abyss too long.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cilia

From what I gather he's not concerned about the state of the world (in that sense), but that our power is threatening their mission. It's basically him freaking out (stoically) that we killed Igeyorhm and (indirectly) Lahabrea, as well as the ridiculously powerful King Thordan and his Knights Twelve. We are tipping the scales, but that's not what he's directly worried about.

---

That would entirely depend on what Elidibus' mission actually is. It's clear that he believes he is working in the best interests of existence, going so far as to suggest we would share his ideals if we understood the truth of the situation. Considering that most of the ascians (besides Lahabrea and Elidibus) came from another world it is clear that Hydaelyn is not the sole source of life. Lahabrea has heavily implied in the past that Hydaelyn is leeching her aether from somewhere as well. With those facts in mind I'm willing to entertain the possibility that the ascians are actually fighting for a just cause: the survival of whatever Hydaelyn is getting her power from.

If Elidibus' objective is to save something/somewhere from destruction (possibly at the cost of Hydaelyn's life) then an imbalance that threatens to destroy everything would indeed jeopardize his mission.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alberel

If Elidibus' objective is to save something/somewhere from destruction (possibly at the cost of Hydaelyn's life) then an imbalance that threatens to destroy everything would indeed jeopardize his mission.

---

Elidibus' objective is the same as the other Ascians: to resurrect Zodiark. What that means, how he intends to do so, and what will happen if he succeeds... we don't know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AsteriaStarfall

Though i am sure that us turning dark in his eyes is just a foreshadowing to something. I would like to believe that it was just his life fading from him. People that have near death experiences always say that things started going very white and washed out or things start to go very dark. So as his life starts to fade in his eyes we may start to look different which is why we turn dark.

Or since he believes he is doing what is right we are actually his version of evil even though we might be the good guys.

---

This is true.. last year when my grandmother died I went to visit her on her death bed. She could not see me at all. I know it happened differently in the game but sight tends to be the first to go so I saw it as the light was fading from his eyes.

It put me into mind of the Lich King's final words:
"Now I stand, the Lion before the Lambs...and they do not fear."
"They cannot fear."

Anyone remember what Elidibus said at the end of the 2.1 story?

Can only post ger germen version:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...6/Elidibus.png

The point of it was, if we would fully understand our special power, we would see that we are nearly equal to the Ascians.

Maybe Thordan has noticed that in the last moment?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atticon

It put me into mind of the Lich King's final words:
"Now I stand, the Lion before the Lambs...and they do not fear."
"They cannot fear."

---

I'm sorry, I don't understand this line's significance...?