Is it just me or are those good conditions...

Have they been incredibly stingy as of late, esp during the 57+ crafts? I'm starting to run into a lot of crafts where I can get to step 23 without a single good.

And when I said stingy, I meant, all of my crafts today have been like this. This is astounding even by my previous run-ins with RNG.

I've apparently stolen yours. I was thinking I was getting an abnormally high rate for them.

I have to agree with you. I've done a huge amount of crafting, but good conditions are pretty rare. Infact, of the 50+ level 60 1 stars I've crafted only 4 or 5 had good conditions appear at all. It could just be bad luck but I cant help but feel the rate was reduced.

Good condition still happen on mine.

its just rng... trust me but i agree once pass 55 gears seem to give less procs and sometimes it does random touches for quality lol.but once u upgrade to 60 pieces ull feel good again

I don't get many at all by doing collectables. Apart from that I do get a few. Standard I would say.

It's definitely not just you, I have crafted a little over a thousand 51-60 recipes and felt the lowered proc rate as well. I've spoken to other endgame crafters and we all noticed it.

Then I went back and craft several hundred lower level recipes 41-50 and the good proc rate feels like the old proc rate.

Iirc, a long time ago, someone tested a sample size (up to the thousands) to check what the good proc rate was and it landed ~20% chance. Now it 'feels' like the rate has been halved for high level recipes. rng may be rng but there's consensus in the endgame crafter's grapevine that the rate definitely feels worse than before.

agree with ace. I've done over 7000 51+ crafts (the achievements stop tracking after 1000 so I can't tell on some jobs). Being a kinda ocpd I track stuff in spreadsheets and to me personally its about 30% less.
I've only done a few hundred 1116 difficulty crafts, but on those ones, its WAY WAY WAY less. I think this there way of pushing the heart of specialist ability so that its not useless.
anything 50 or less seems to be the same.

Seems about the same to me. But that tricksy SE RNG seems to know when I'm making something I actually need to HQ and picks that time to give 0 goods/excellents.

Good procs are far less. Or to be more accurate, crafts with a ''small amount of total goods'' happen more often. Either goods happen at a decent rate or they will barely happen at all. The latter occurs a lot more at high level then it has in the past. I've had my share of 30+ synths without a single good condition now.

I've noticed Hasty Touches missing a lot more on higher level crafts as well. And in the same vein, I've noticed Hasty Touches missing a lot less on lower level crafts. It feels like Good and Hasty Touch procs work on a level-based scaling - the higher level the item is compared to your level, the less Goods you get and the less Hasty Touch connects, and vice versa for lower level.

I usually get 1 or 2 goods on 1 star crafts.
I think high end crafts now require the heart of " crafter " ability. Which will require denialations.
That skill increases the chances of goods u can get for that craft.

I believe SE wants us to get used to it as they made crafter denialations in a bundle of 10 when purchasing them at the scrips npc.
In a way this is really likely as they made a specialist system to funnel ppl into specialized jobs, so not every craft u have will have an easy time HQing etc certain crafts.

Just completed a 37 step synthesis without a single good condition... Even with 8/11 HQ materials(they have equal value for this craft) I only managed to get to 68% HQ.

Seems like its going to be almost impossible to do highend crafts without heart of the specialist. Well, aint that fun.

Good procs were in fact nerfed.

I`ve been crafting literally for 4 hours a day since launch, and i have went through up to 4 crafts of +22 steps without a single good proc. Probably was a countermeasure to the Precise Touch skill which happens to be too good. But since is SE we are talking about, they don`t know moderation, so when they decide to nerf somethimg, the smash the thing into the ground...

It seems to me that the number of good procs has indeed been reduced. Along with reducing an item's durability from 40/80 to 35/70, this does seem to have been added as a counter to new skills like precise touch and to promote the use of the level 60 specialist ability.

However, this does seem to be mostly a non-issue to me. At the moment, none of the master recipes seem particularly tough including the 1* level 60 recipes, which are considerably easier than what 3* and 4* level 50 crafts were like when they were introduced. I've only crafted about 10 1* items so far, but despite the fact that my stats are nowhere near maximum, I've never been in any serious danger of an NQ including the time I tried crafting one starting from 0 quality (I got 96%, but with some upgrades, that should increase to 100%).

I do see this as being a potential issue if harder recipes are introduced in the future.

For me the good/excellent procs are still the same but the NQ/HQ ratio is really absurd and horrid. Been making dhalmel leather lately and it's been NQing at 80%-92% a lot. Well over 15/25 synths have NQ'd in that % range. That's a pretty big fail rate for being in the 80%-92% range. Almost feels like I'm trying to desynth things at 80% success rate where they blow up 90% of the time.

Yes, I can confirm good happens A LOT less. I've been crafting level 60 food, deep fried okeanis, sohm al tart, baked pipira pira. Today I crafted 99 hq morel salad (level 60 recipe), here's what I've been noticing so far:

1 - Steady Hand II + Hasty touch/rapid synthesis misses far more than it used to in ARR. I don't know why, but it does, I'm not paranoid...must've crafted over 1k level 60 stuff by now, constantly seeing 3 and even 4 "80%" miss in a row very very very consistently, this is completely off.

2 - Both excellent and good now proc tricks of the trade (excellent didn't in ARR) and also the new skill precise thouch (which is very good).

3 - Good happens A LOT LESS.

i believe the process rate was lowered to make the lvl60 specialist action, which upset good process rate, more appealing to use.

I haven't noticed any difference in proc rate. When they added 3 stars, and 4 stars, and tokens for various books and gear the difficulty made a string of bad luck something that stood out.

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Originally Posted by Malakai

For me the good/excellent procs are still the same but the NQ/HQ ratio is really absurd and horrid. Almost feels like I'm trying to desynth things at 80% success rate where they blow up 90% of the time.

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I would agree with most on this thread:

* I've noticed much longer droughts and fewer procs for "Good" compared to 2.0. Some extended crafts (like other people said) I've gone the entire crafting session with NO Good Condition procs at all. ZERO.

It's very disappointing. :(

And like Malakai said, for Desynthesis, I definitely feel like there's some bug. I've desynthed countless items since 3.0, and most items that state "70 - 80% Success" range for Desynth BLOW UP more than 50% of the time (feels like that percentage is the "Chance to Fail" more than the Success rate). :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Espritduo

I've noticed Hasty Touches missing a lot more on higher level crafts as well. And in the same vein, I've noticed Hasty Touches missing a lot less on lower level crafts. [...] - the higher level the item is compared to your level, the less Goods you get and the less Hasty Touch connects, and vice versa for lower level.

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I've noticed this too—but I think it may be based on iLvl, rather than class level.

I'd been having this problem with Cobalt Ingots while I was leveling BSM/ARM (I only had WVR at 50 when HW came out), and as it turned out, I'd forgotten to make a replacement main-hand tool and was trying to hammer them out with ten-level-old gear. Once I fixed that, my Hasty Touch success rate jumped significantly. The same thing happened later with my CRP off-hand tool and Cedar Lumber.

(And yes, I keep better track now. I've learned my lesson.)

Is RNG broken? I'm having a horrid time with Hasty Touch atm. Past 3 days actually. They need to adjust it from 80% success rate when you have Steady Hand II up to something more reasonable like 65% because that's what it feels like. Also In both crafting and gathering the 8%-20% fail rate seems like it has a 70% chance to succeed in NQ/failing as well. I missed about 20/60 while gathering on 92% gather rate nodes. And I've NQ'd over 30 things that were 89%-94% so far as well. It's really horrid ratio's lately. How does something with so small of a fail rate have so high of a chance to succeed? Also Precise Touch should just say 70% chance to fail if used without Steady Hand.
This is pretty much what I'm seeing constantly lately when trying to HQ items 55+ in HQ 55 gear with melds.
http://i.imgur.com/JqWacOM.jpg

Hasty Touch: 50% success chance. Steady Hand II: Adds 30% success chance. So, 80% success chance. That's it. Gear, level, none of it matters - mash Hasty with SH2 up, and you have an 80% chance of success, 20% chance of failure. It's spelled out right there on the abilities. Similarly, get yourself up to 72% quality, and you have a 28% chance of NQ. That's all.

80% is 80%. 72% is 72%. Don't speculate about "hidden" modifiers that may or may not be applied - that way lies madness and misdirection. SE spells out the odds of success EXPLICITLY on the abilities and progress bars - it is mindless paranoia to believe they are lying to us. Everyone has their runs of bad luck and runs of good luck - and guess which of those get posted to the forums? It can create the illusion that there's something deeper going on, but that's all it is, an illusion.

As for Good conditions becoming scarce at higher levels, that I cannot be so confident about. It's possible. Unlike the above, SE makes no promises as to what the odds of Good or Excellent conditions are, so it's at least possible that the proc rates have been lowered as recipe levels get higher.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

80% is 80%. 72% is 72%. Don't speculate about "hidden" modifiers that may or may not be applied - that way lies madness and misdirection. SE spells out the odds of success EXPLICITLY on the abilities and progress bars - it is mindless paranoia to believe they are lying to us. Everyone has their runs of bad luck and runs of good luck - and guess which of those get posted to the forums? It can create the illusion that there's something deeper going on, but that's all it is, an illusion.

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Mmmhmmm. There's no "magic" or superstition behind it. 80% is 80%. Over a very long period of time, you succeed 80% of those RS/HT steps, using - ta da - 20% less CP than you would if you just used 100% guaranteed progress/quality builders. Since CP really ends up being the one thing that people run out of before having to complete a synth, in the long run it's better to save CP whenever possible.

Yes ofcourse. With an average of 20% chance to get a good, getting none in a 37 step synthesis is entirely within the realm of expectation.


My math sucks btw. Could you tell me how much this is, and if I have the right formula:

0.8^37

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Yes ofcourse. With an average of 20% chance to get a good, getting none in a 37 step synthesis is entirely within the realm of expectation.


My math sucks btw. Could you tell me how much this is, and if I have the right formula:

0.8^37

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That formula is correct, and the answer is .025%, which is of course absurd.

Reversing that, assuming the RNG wasn't just broken when you did your 37-step synthesis, 1-root37(0.05) = .0778

Ergo, if Aeyis isn't just exaggerating or misremembering or the RNG literally broke for that craft, I can say with 95% certainty that the chance of receiving a Good for the craft he attempted was 7.78% or less. Which is much lower than expected 20%.

37? I had a synth that went 40 steps and the condition never changed from normal. I only remember this because I've felt like the "Good Streaks" weren't as common anymore, and I remember raging to my friend in linkshell that I had gone 30 steps without a good, only to finish that synth at step 40, still without a single good, let alone excellent...

I definitely feel like synths where Good/Excellent pop frequently are less ... prevalent? in 51+ synths. I noticed from the get go.

Yeah after the first few times, I decided to count. Had one before that where I didnt get a good untill 34th or such, with another good 2-3 steps later. Fortunately I rarely make 1* items now and the other level 60 items dont seem effected by this.

It may well be that the level disposition (1* is 60+ in terms of level) is what is causing these effects.

I've had recipes where I got no condition changes for 30+ steps. I've had recipes where I got many.

Problem here is that adding a mechanic like the Whistle system makes it overly risky to use when you can't reliably get good procs, let alone 7. Heart of the [Crafter] doesn't inspire confidence because it's only a "chance" and only for 7 steps. I've yet to see any posts to dive into what this chance is and how it compares to the chance when it's not active. Furthermore, if it works anything like normal condition procs, 7 steps is in reality 4 good procs because you normally require a normal proc in between each good.