Attention AST: Lightspeed is one of your better spells, not a bad spell.

There was a thread here the other day someone posted mentioning that Lightspeed is practically useless. I want to clarify that Lightspeed is NOT a bad spell. That spell can single-handedly spell the difference between a wipe or survival. Sure it doesn't see use too often, but when it does it is brilliant.

I just got done doing Sohm Al for my first time, and in one part during end boss the SMN in the group was insta-killed, aka my skill as a healer was not the reason they died. Other than that everything went smooth. So I cast Swiftcast and Ascend to bring them back. But because I used the Swiftcast, I had no fast way to heal them up and with the frequency and potency of incoming damage I was afraid they would die before I could heal them as the burst heal Essential Dignity was on cooldown. At that moment I remembered Lightspeed and instantly cast it and then followed up with an instant Benefic II.

Basically I think a great goal for AST is to balance use of Swiftcast, Essential Dignity, and Lightspeed as best as possible so you always have a way to instantly heal. Basically I think Lightspeed is a good last resort for instant healing if Essential Dignity is down and the situation is dire enough for it, such as topping someone up after revival. The 25% reduction in potency is not an issue here because the goal is to get their health high enough after ressing to survive the next hit.

The reason I said mean the difference between a wipe or not is not because we almost wiped, as we didn't. I was just thinking of situations where it could be.

Aspect benefict in noct stance "heals" more then lightspeed benefic 2 .The 500 instant potency should be enough to last till another (full potency)benefic 2

Maybe out of 1/100 fights you will be put in a situation where you have no swiftcast but an instant helios may save 2 members? 99% of the time there's no reason to cast it.
Lightspeed is too situational. Great for FATES though.

Now imagine if we had an ability that increased our aoe healing output instead of current Lightspeed. We wouldnt be put such tight situations so often.

How about an ability that eats a drawn card to spit out an instant burst aoe heal? Maybe change "Collective Unconscious" to this ability. Then we get to sacrifice our OP as hell Spire card buff for some aoe healing.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

Aspect benefict in noct stance to "heals" more then lightspeed benefic 2...

Maybe in 1/100 fights you will be put in a situation where you have no swiftcast but an instant helios may save 2 members?
Lightspeed is too situational.

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Oh, well I typically don't use Nocturnal Sect when solo or in 4 player groups as I find the regen from Diurnal Sect to be more useful overall. And you can't Sect switch during battle. I only use Nocturnal Sect in 8 player groups if the other healer is a WHM or another AST using Diurnal.

EDIT: It's true that Lightspeed is very situational and as I mentioned in topic does not see much use, but I still believe it is an excellent spell when its use comes into play.

EDIT: That would be nice to get a burst heal from a card sacrifice.

Isnt a card sacrifice the best solution. We would be sacrificing our buff potential for more aoe healing. Thats Balance...

Collective unconscious is so bad. It needs to go. Who was the DEV that designed this ability? ROFL

The real issue is that the wait between spells and the cut effectiveness.
Basically the wait before the spell is cast is : CASTING>SPELL>CASTING>SPELL. The GCD timer activates upon casting. Your doing this steady stream of spells but adding an instant cast GCD to the mix it's: INSTANT CAST>GCD>CASTING>SPELL, doubling the wait time and a risk.
Sure the casting an instant cast immediately after casting a normal spell like Regen after Cure2 helps but not in some cases, even from a DPS stand this can hurt your damage.

I don't think it should be used for emergencies in the same sense you would Benediction or Lustrate.
Ultimately the wait would be the same: INSTANT CAST>GCD>INSTANT CAST>GCD. But that 25% effectiveness reduction can be serious, as 6000 would be 4500, 4000 to 3000, 2000 to 1500.

I know I won't be using this unless either A) the fight has me moving too much; B) if I'm getting interrupted too much; or C) when I need 3+second casts done more than once. :)

I would hope the fact that ASTs can use their main and aoe heals and stoneskin while moving would evidence that Lightspeed isn't crap. Yes, there's a potency penalty that makes it a bit situational, but what's essentially a multi-swiftcast still has a lot of potential in movement heavy fights.

its crap because it uses a slot that should have (not of FYI) been a heal cooldown spell rather that this weird noobtrap skill that in 99% of all cases hurts you when you use it.




A Scholar can afford to have a borderline spell like this (dissipation), because they have so many healing cooldowns and debuffs now that you probabkly forget to use half of them anyways.
But AST really cant.

You forgot its most important use: Swiftcasted Stoneskin without having to use swiftcast. Between instant stoneskin and instant shield via Nocturnal Benefic, you have better damage prevention for big hits than a SCH does without an adlo crit.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

You forgot its most important use: Swiftcasted Stoneskin without having to use swiftcast. Between instant stoneskin and instant shield via Nocturnal Benefic, you have better damage prevention for big hits than a SCH does without an adlo crit.

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This brings up an interesting question - does the lowered potency affect the strength of Stoneskin?

Stoneskin has no magic potency tagged onto it, just a flat 10%-of-health skin. So I wouldn't think it'll be affected.

Confirmations would be nice though.

oh hurray, we can use Stoneskin x 7 while running. *rolls eyes so hard they spin*

Waiting for the GCD to go away to insta cast 1 spell is bad design on an ability that could make or break astro. RDM Chainspell wasn't cast one insta spell, wait for cool down, cast another insta spell. It was cast non stop for 30 seconds or if mp was depleted, convert, keep insta casting.

Great for fates when the 25% reduction won't punish you in a large group, great for stoneskin when you need to speed run, great to get the dead up but I'd rather wait for the 1 min on swift cast to AoE heal or any type of emergency. 25% is a big hit when you can't afford it.

It'd be great if it increased potency of the spell in your stance and chainspelled correctly without having to wait for the normal GCD. Boost of cure potency in the heal stance, boost of shield duration in sch stance. We have nothing to boost us. Heck, SCH gets the fairy's healing boost spell AND get to sacrifice the fairy to boost potency.

We get uhhhh decreased DMG / HEALING potency while using it. Never mind the fact that AST has lower native cure potency which is noticeable (but we cast faster, so it makes up for it, right?)

AST has no CC besides gravity (that's imbedded in Stella) so it's not like we can save the pt by spamming gravity / stella on mobs with light speed. And 25% reduction on our AoE spell that gradually loses % of damage with added mobs is kinda slap in the face.

It's situational at best, the idea is there but the utility for AST to use it in their repertoire on a consistent basis isn't, especially in high level raid.

We don't necessarily know what high level raid content will entail with Alexander, perhaps having a healer with maximum mobility will be key to an encounter. Who's to say without having the raid to experience yet? That said, there are precious few situations I can think of where Lightspeed in 2.X raids would be viable. What does come to mind off the bat is the final phase of T5,when targeted by Twintania's Liquid Hell spam, still being able to heal while placing Liquid Hells along the outside of the map. All in all though, Lightspeed does admittedly feel lackluster in a great many situations.

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Originally Posted by Dayala

oh hurray, we can use Stoneskin x 7 while running. *rolls eyes so hard they spin*

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I take it you're not much of a raider then? There have been times in FCoB... hey even Titan EX back in the day... where I see a DPS eat something optional just before a raidwide hit, and I can't heal nor shield them because I also have to move.

SCH's lustrate shines there. And now, Lightspeed can help with those kind of things too.

That said, I won't argue it isn't situational. It is. Still, making several different spells instacasts is very powerful. Look at it less as a healing buff, and more as a mobility buff. It makes you the bard of healers.

Edit: You're still focusing overmuch on stoneskin and everything but the mobility.

Again, focus on the mobility. Once more, consider Bards. Bards have the big advantage of being able to move while DPS (but as a result, they're a bit behind the other DPS). WM, once fixed, will allow them to exchange that mobility for better damage.
Lightspeed is basically the opposite of WM. It makes you the bard of healers... you can run and gun(heal), but just like bards, at the cost of throughput. Don't use it as a SHTF buff. Do use it to keep up healing through high movement phases. Or shielding, where appropriate, but not focusing on that nor exclusively.

I raid. I've completed T13 on sch. Doesn't change my stance on Light Speed. Casting Stone Skin while moving is situational, maybe prior echo T13 or even T9 before we started to overgear but it's all survivable if your sch isn't a waste of slot.

Lustrate doesn't have a GCD when you use it, you can spam all three shots quickly to bring them back. Light Speed doesn't remove the GCD between spell usage which is bad design and makes it useless in emergency.

It costs the same MP and we have to wait at a normal amount to use it. Lowered MP cost and Lowered GCD would benefit - removing the 25% decrease in heals / dmg would also make it more appealing than a multi-use stoneskin swiftcast. Even raising a raid, still gotta wait for that GCD on raise to use it again and by then the timer for LS will be done.

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Originally Posted by Dayala

Lustrate doesn't have a GCD when you use it, you can spam all three shots quickly to bring them back. Light Speed doesn't remove the GCD between spell usage which is bad design and makes it useless in emergency.

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This, a thousand times. Lightspeed cannot be used to heal because of the GCD. To me, it looks simple, make it so Lightspeed removes GCD until it wears off, we can even keep the -25% potency because otherwise Presence of Mind would suck compared to it.

I find myself struggling during big pulls in lvl 60 dungeons. I keep healing and healing but tank is always low HP. Lightspeed cannot be used because we heal less, and the speed of our healing doesn't really change because of the GCD being kept. By the time the GCD is done, we could already be starting to cast a new heal without Lightspeed, without the -25% potency.

Edit: read big pulls as in "tank pulling the whole zone".

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Originally Posted by Blaon

Edit: read big pulls as in "tank pulling the whole zone".

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That right there is pretty much the problem, especially if we're not talking full i180 gear (and presumably the i190 gear to come). Even on SCH and WHM, although we do get some buffs (or mitigation for SCH) to help, these sorts of pulls can run us dangerously low on MP and we might only be keeping the tank up by a hair's breadth (not that they ever seem to notice).

Either way, AST is not a powerhouse healer any more than BRD is a powerhouse DPS. In both cases, the jobs give up some of that max potential for their mobility and buffs.

I don't know about removing the GCD entirely because then you basically get 30 Lustrates in 15 seconds every 150 seconds via spamming Benefic II. Yeah you'll go out of MP but that's a ridiculous amount of healing; nothing short of a OHKO/Mana Out will be able to stop you from keeping the tank at full for the entire 15 seconds.

I'd change it to reducing the GCD by 50% in addition to the cast time buff + Potency hit. That way you can still use it while running, and while you don't get 15 seconds of spamming Benefic II, you do get to at least pump out more heals instead of it's current use of....basically just giving you 15s of Swiftcast-Stoneskin.

You can click it off after you finish running around you know....

Unless your bad I guess.

does spear lower the GCD? maybe lightspeed needs to be comboed off with spear card?

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Originally Posted by Staris

You can click it off after you finish running around you know....

Unless your bad I guess.

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Yes but how much content is going to require that? It's not like WHM can deal with constantly having to move since they only have....Benediction and Tetragrammation? And BLM would be screwed to all hell. So it's not like you can properly balance a fight around constant movement with the classees like they are right now.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Yes but how much content is going to require that? It's not like WHM can deal with constantly having to move since they only have....Benediction and Tetragrammation? And BLM would be screwed to all hell. So it's not like you can properly balance a fight around constant movement with the classees like they are right now.

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There have been fights, right up through 2.4, that have been harsh on BLMs because of their movement requirements. WHMs also generally need to learn to preposition/conserve movement similar to a BLM as any time moving is time not spent moving, and when fights have both raid and tank hits while moving, it's a big deal.

Phoenix was also a bit kinder on SCH because, although it can't cast physick/adlo while moving, it does have shorter cast times (vs whm) and lustrate. WHM, if you where a target of certain mechanics, say goodbye to your HP/S until it's dealt with.

Now, required? No.. No, not required. Probably never. (You could also say the same of abilities like E4E or regen)

Advantage? In mechanics (which often = movement) heavy fights, definitely.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I would hope the fact that ASTs can use their main and aoe heals and stoneskin while moving would evidence that Lightspeed isn't crap. Yes, there's a potency penalty that makes it a bit situational, but what's essentially a multi-swiftcast still has a lot of potential in movement heavy fights.

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wouldn't that spend a tremendous amount of mana

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Originally Posted by jars

wouldn't that spend a tremendous amount of mana

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It spends the same amount of mana as standing still and casting any particular spell costs. The buff lets you do it on the move.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

It spends the same amount of mana as standing still and casting any particular spell costs. The buff lets you do it on the move.

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But it's incredibly MP inefficient to spam SS on the party, especially on DPS with low-HP. SS costs nearly three times as much as Benefic (IIRC), and in turn only shields for a portion of what you could otherwise heal. So yes, it does waste a massive amount of MP, compared to just using Aspected Benefic in the first place, since it's instance as well.

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Originally Posted by GideonHighmourn

But it's incredibly MP inefficient to spam SS on the party, especially on DPS with low-HP. SS costs nearly three times as much as Benefic (IIRC), and in turn only shields for a portion of what you could otherwise heal. So yes, it does waste a massive amount of MP, compared to just using Aspected Benefic in the first place, since it's instance as well.

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I'm not sure why people are thinking I said spam stoneskin with it. I only listed it as an option among the spells you could use. Use it, or don't, as you feel the situation merits (or doesn't). Like the decision to use any other spell.

Lightspeed is not stoneskin only. It is cast spells on the move (as long as they are below a certain base cast time), including benefic, benefic II, aspected benefic, helios, and so on.

lightspeed , ascend spam :P (if only :( ) , feels like RDM in dynamis :D ...to bad u cant do that

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

It spends the same amount of mana as standing still and casting any particular spell costs. The buff lets you do it on the move.

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you referenced helios which would have a 25% potency hit. stoneskin I guess, but I went 2 years without stoneskin on sch because it looked useless. granted it's been changed a bit... I really don't want to level conj

stoneskin is like 10% HP for a million mana, i never use it.

I almost never use it when i saw the 25% reduction of healing, I almost forgot i had this skill lol. Seems like only a dps skill to me. They should change it to something else, maybe something like your next three draws have no CD. Allowing you to Buff 3 targets.

It's not necessarily a "better spell." It's just a nice utility spell to help you become a mobile healer. Like Risvertasashi has stated, the mobility is wonderful. Lightspeed isn't a cooldown used to catch up on healing, but to DO healing while dealing with mechanics. Though most arguments stem from the reduced potency (thus making spells very mana inefficient), Astrologians have many tools in conserving mana and regaining it. The Spear is one of my most favourite cards when using Luminous Aether as I shave off many seconds off it, and keeps my mana up at very healthy levels.

Plus, if you ever toggle Cleric Stance by accident, you can just Lightspeed a Stoneskin and toggle Cleric Stance off during the GCD and burn a Essential Dignity. It sucks that you have to burn two cooldowns, but it's a nice countermeasure for little mistakes. :-)

And lets not forget battle raising. 5 second raises! Wooh! Better than nothing, right?

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

lightspeed , ascend spam :P (if only :( ) , feels like RDM in dynamis :D ...to bad u cant do that

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My thoughts exactly! Disappointed when I tried it and didn't work lol.