Make Con's elemental spells more unique....not talking about animation

I leveled up con for the first time last week and was pretty unimpressed with how each nuke was pretty much the same thing just a different animation. I'm sure there is a elemental resistance chart somewhere to argue this...but for the most part it doesn't really matter which spell you cast...its gonna roughly do the same output.

how about make each element do something different...

(For this idea, lets pretend there is no AoE option for each spell and a decent cool down timer on each cast so people don't just spam one element over and over.)

Fire - Does AoE fire damage that applies a burn DoT on the mob. (good for fighting groups of mobs.)

Aero -Cone attack in front of caster, Does weak wind damage to and does a "knock back" effect. Pushing the target x amount of distance from the caster. (Good for soloing, or interrupting target's spell casting.)

Blizzard - Deals AoE ice damage to the target and binds them in place for x amount of time. (decent solo tactic if the mobs didn't have that stupid ranged move. But for now it be good against a mob you just dont want next to you I guess.)

Thunder - Deals burst thunder damage to a single target and has a chance of stunning the target. (Ideal for single target fights.)

Earth - Drops a huge piece of earth on the target, dealing earth damage and appling confused, daze effect, preventing the target from using TP moves for x amount of time.)

Water - ?

This is just an idea, care to hear some positive feedback please.

I think this is an awesome idea. When they redo abilities in 1.20 this is the kind of thing I would love to see.

I'm actually fine with them being similar spells. I think as they tier up, they could shift though. Different sizes of AoE perhaps for tier II over tier 1 for starters.

Elemental resistances should actually have more effect on mobs, which I think is a stronger adjustment needing to take place. Looking at past Final Fantasy titles, there is a clear difference between mobs that are strong/weak/neutral to an element. It's hard to see the effects of elements in play currently with the randomness of damage calculations.

I like this. Lots of previous FFs have this but elemental spells with added effect are usually reserved for high level magic or special magic (like magic used by bosses only). I'd like to see it implemented but not on the lv1 CON spells.

True, I'd love to see Ancient Magic take on different properties in this nature. That would be much more in-line with a Final Fantasy title, yet keep the tiered spells maintaining similar properties.

I love how people will cling to tradition just to preserve some stupid spells which do nothing.

I agree with OP that abilities should only be in game if they actually DO something. Having a hundred pointless abilities that are all the same is just a mess.

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

I love how people will cling to tradition just to preserve some stupid spells which do nothing.

I agree with OP that abilities should only be in game if they actually DO something. Having a hundred pointless abilities that are all the same is just a mess.

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Tradition is always hard to break, but I think this will bring more fun play style to the CON class. I mean you see that goblin reading that bomb toss so you cast earth to try and counter it...if it lands you just saved the group some ouchies...if you fail...at least you tried!

When you make a player have to actually pay more attention to a situation.... the experience usually is more fun. This is one of the most common things I hear from players who do healing roles in MMOs... they have to pay attention or someone dies... like a "good' red mage in FFXI...you had to be on the ball...same goes with ninja blink tanking.

I never was a fan of the tier system FFs have had in the past titles...Fire 1..fire 2...fire 3... or fire fira firaga... same thing. Make them different instead of a new tier that totally replaces the previous one.

For the OP's style a new tier could just add a little more to the effect.... like

Aero II - Instead do an circle radius around the caster to push away mobs instead of just a cone.

So its not the exact same thing but more damage... make it seem like its an actual advancement in the spell! otherwise you could just make the spell's damage scale to your level and never even need to add tiers to spells and abilities.

add more then just the mash this button till its dead and I think thats a step the in the right direction.

I think the elementals on CON don't need much tweaking and definetly don't need all those gimmicky abilities tied into them. The dev's actually just need to focus more on applying elemental weakness/strengths/absorbs/immunities etc to the mobs in game. The debuff's need to be kept seperate from the basic nukes that mages get.

I guess some of you all didn't play much BLM or RDM in XI.. either that or you must have been terrible at the job. To argue that you didn't see a point to the tier system of elemental magic in XI... is just craziness. Even through endgame (and especially endgame in some cases), blm's needed to nuke with tiers less than AM2 or IV many times (I stopped XI around the time of FFXIV open beta.. I realize those aren't the highest tiers nemore).

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Originally Posted by Exni

I think the elementals on CON don't need much tweaking and definetly don't need all those gimmicky abilities tied into them. The dev's actually just need to focus more on applying elemental weakness/strengths/absorbs/immunities etc to the mobs in game. The debuff's need to be kept seperate from the basic nukes that mages get.

I guess some of you all didn't play much BLM or RDM in XI.. either that or you must have been terrible at the job. To argue that you didn't see a point to the tier system of elemental magic in XI... is just craziness. Even through endgame (and especially endgame in some cases), blm's needed to nuke with tiers less than AM2 or IV many times (I stopped XI around the time of FFXIV open beta.. I realize those aren't the highest tiers nemore).

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I played blm and rdm in xi, and i understand that the different tiers do considerable more damage then its previous tier and their were instances where this was useful...

I'm just tryin to say that the tier system is only that... in level 1 con....i cast fire! im level 50 con i cast fire 3! its the same exact mechanic...just more damage. Wouldn't you want to not do the same exact thing from 1-50+?

Wouldnt you want to have whole new effects to your new abilities?

Lets take a FFXI example

Utsesumi Ichi gave you 3 shadow orbs..... utsesumi NI gave you 4 shadow orbs with a faster cast! So now you have a different mechanic to your class cause you got the next upgrade! You can now take 7 hits instead of 3! and if utilized correctly you can hardly ever take any damage at all.

totally different experience with the next upgrade to the spell yes? 1-36 was totally different 37-75 on ninja.

I think the only issue with something like that is that the spells are meant to be interchangeable depending on what you're fighting, which won't always be the case if they have unique effects like and especially ones that might be extremely detrimental (making fire have a DoT would pretty much kill any Nuke > sleep strategies on stuff that is weak to fire). It would be really neat to see them as unique spells, though, or make the ancient magic do that since they need to be unique.

I personally think CON nuking would be more interesting if we got more abilities to alter our spell effects kind of like Spiritbind halving MP, Roaming Soul increasing the duration of buffs, etc so we can change spells to suit the situation. Also making hitting weaknesses more important would be nice too, like maybe a very-short lived defense down buff after a nuke that is more severe relative to how much damage you did so you can coordinate with party members, interrupting spell casts/ws (kinda like your Aero idea but without the knockback), or contributing to incapacitation in some way or even having a unique incap effect depending on the enemy.

Totally man. I'd like to see maybe an Earth shield wall type of thing or CC if the engine supports it.

Status effects, the shape of the AoE and anything else should be abilities of their own.

Purchased skills to do the following:

Add a status effect to your elemental nukes, (bind, slow, silence, etc...)
Change the shape of your AoE, (Conal, multi directional, radial, between caster and target etc..)
Increase Potency, reduce range/aoe (and the inverse, increase potency, reduce range/aoe)


These additional abilities should be optional and not "part" of the innate nukes themselves.

This creates some customization and situational situations rather than just a new mechanic.

DON'T make them requirements of each other imo.

ADD the features as purchased skills. (guild marks)

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Originally Posted by Estellios

I think the only issue with something like that is that the spells are meant to be interchangeable depending on what you're fighting, which won't always be the case if they have unique effects like and especially ones that might be extremely detrimental (making fire have a DoT would pretty much kill any Nuke > sleep strategies on stuff that is weak to fire). It would be really neat to see them as unique spells, though, or make the ancient magic do that since they need to be unique.

I personally think CON nuking would be more interesting if we got more abilities to alter our spell effects kind of like Spiritbind halving MP, Roaming Soul increasing the duration of buffs, etc so we can change spells to suit the situation. Also making hitting weaknesses more important would be nice too, like maybe a very-short lived defense down buff after a nuke that is more severe relative to how much damage you did so you can coordinate with party members, interrupting spell casts/ws (kinda like your Aero idea but without the knockback), or contributing to incapacitation in some way or even having a unique incap effect depending on the enemy.

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interesting you gave me an idea then...

after SE adjusts the mob resistant levels of course...so picking a specific element would be important.. instead make job abilities that trigger this extra effects.

like fire water thunder etc etc...are pretty much the same at level 1 like they are now.

but you eventually learn *burst* - which makes your next spell apply a DoT.... fire would do burn, aero would do choke, water would do drown...etc (just remove choke and burn etc from the list and this is how you apply them.)

And a Job ability called "Elemental Mastery" - which triggers the extra effects from my OP on each spell...give it a 1min cool down? less more? what ever.

this way you can still do your damage based on what element is needed on the current target without gimping certain spells?

just a thought

This reminds me of the spells(Techniques) on Phantasy Star Online.

Foire(Fire) shoots a single fireball from the caster.
Gifoie(Fira/Fire II) would shoot a few fireballs spinning outwards from the caster.
Rafoie(Firaga/Fire III) would make an explosion from the enemy your targeting.
Barta(Blizzard) would shoot icicles from the ground in a strait line going through enemies.
Gibarta(Blizzara/Blizzard II) would shoot out icicles in a cone shape.
Rabarta(Blizzaga/Blizzard III) would be a circular ice AoE spell from the caster.
Zonde(Thunder) single target thunder attack from above.
Gizonde(Thundara/Thunder II) would shoot a chain lightning that would hit multiple enemies if they're close enough together.
Razonde(Thundaga/Thunder III) thunder version of Rabarta.

I wouldn't oppose this idea but I doubt SE would implement it.

Purchasing abilities and customizing the bonuses could be a way to do it....

id rather just see SE break down the walls a bit and add them to the spells themselves... Maybe make each tier do something the other tier doesn't.... so they don't become useless once you learn the new tier.

bliz 1 does the bind effect.... bliz 2 doesn't bind but does more burst damage if the enemy is bound.... that way you can utilize both tiers effectively.

Water 1 could apply a "wet" debuff that increases damage from thunder sources.