Okay, I don't main bard, in fact it's level 49. But I did every single story quest with a bard friend of mine. She was at first fond of WM, then a bit confused, and now she's not so sure, but she's willing to learn how to utilize it properly.
Then a single thought occured to me. I've browsed reddit and I've browsed here. Not ONE SINGLE PERSON has realized that you can sing this with other songs. This means WM can be used for openers, burst, etc, but also to guarantee your damage doesn't plummet while singing TP.
For you bards out there, I'm just wondering...why is nobody bringing up the point that it basically makes your ability to sing songs awesome because you don't lose DPS or support at the cost of having to not move around. Seems like a fair trade. Once you refresh your party, turn it off as you see fit. It won't always be a DPS increase if dodging is necessary anyway.
I have a bard feeling about this
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06-24-2015, 04:08 AMAltijacekI have a bard feeling about this
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06-24-2015, 04:11 AMLemuria
The only fly in the ointment is that by moving to WM you lose your auto attacks, so you're still losing damage using songs either way.
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06-24-2015, 04:13 AMAltijacek
Yes, but songs reduce damage by 15%. WM increases it by 20% and unlocks several powerful abilties. 20% plus access to new abilties minus 15% and auto attacks probably evens out just fine. If it doesn't even out, it's still a million times better than just flat out losing 15%.
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06-24-2015, 04:14 AMTabanDisabling auto attack basically cancels out that bonus damage, even if it didn't, singing is still an overall dps loss. That's like saying popping blood for blood lets you sing without a damage penalty. True you aren't doing less than normal dps, but you're still doing less than your potential dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altijacek
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06-24-2015, 04:17 AMLambLich
Yeah Yeah thats great if WM behaved like a stance which you could slip in and out of seamlessly but its not. It is a horrible clunky mechanic that ruins the new abilities with the way it was implemented.
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06-24-2015, 04:18 AMMhikail
Edit: Nvm, I came here to laugh at the title lol.
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06-24-2015, 04:23 AMAltijacek
The blood for blood comparison is not valid in this case because of the cooldown. WM has a cast time, meaning it can be cast almost whenever (it should be slightly reduced). The bottom line is that it is something you can use while singing to mitigate the DPS loss of singing. Not having it up while singing is a bigger DPS loss than having it up while singing. You won't pop blood for blood because you need that since it is on cooldown. This however, can be used almost at will. Yeah it might be clunky, but I'd rather mitigate the DPS loss than just live with a DPS loss.
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06-24-2015, 04:23 AMWelsper59
The elephant in the room is crying out how many BRDs didn't sing songs to begin with. That has been improving a little more as time goes on, but still the general case.
The next thing however, is that your damage does actually plummet, even with WM on while using a TP/MP song. BRD itself is rather weak when you compare to equally geared (and knowledgeable) players of other jobs, whereas the main idea was damage while mobile (ignoring the support aspect in this case). With WM on, you no longer do auto-attacks, which is a HUGE loss of a DPS source (potentially made up through the damage increase of WM). To lose the damage buff because of regenerative song casts means you're still performing at 20% of a loss of damage output. It's not like its a cooldown buff or something, afterall. It seems to be intended to be left on almost indefinitely due to that long cast time to activate. Having to move at all will result in a significant loss of DPS (again, no auto attacks). Given the seemingly low output average compared to other DPS, this is a rather big hit. At this early stage of the expansion, it seems there's a lot wrong with WM, be it the ability design or no one knows how to properly use it. -
06-24-2015, 04:24 AMSakuraMidoriOr maybe we don't feel the need to post about it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Altijacek
As a brd i always play songs and using WM was something i did right off the bat but yea you sound a lil funny by saying {Not ONE SINGLE PERSON has realized } did you go out of your way to ask every brd? you your self don't play as one and your friend was clueless but so are every brd? if you read the skill it tells you. You can use it with other songs that was something i'm sure many saw right off the bat but ty for telling us -
06-24-2015, 04:33 AMTabanI'm not sure if I'm not wording it right, but let's just say that WM was a straight 20% attack bonus, no detrimental effects at all. People would have it on 24/7 for the higher potential dps and singing would lower that dps. Having WM doesn't make me any more or less likely to sing. I'll sing when my group needs it, and my dps will go down when I do, regardless of if I'm using WM at the time or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altijacek
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06-24-2015, 04:36 AMDropxero
The problem is that Auto Attack accounts for 18% to 23% of our DPS (higher when Barrage still increased the number of AAs). So really, the trade was an average of 21% DPS from AA, for 20% DPS increase with WM. It's a wash. Songs decrease DPS by same amount regardless of having WM up or not.
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06-24-2015, 04:48 AMKassiekaneBarrage was adjusted to be used with WM as it doesn't affect auto attacks anymore, and from what I believe there are skills locked behind WM which increases your DPS when you use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropxero
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06-24-2015, 05:06 AMDropxero
"Barrage was adjusted to be used with WM as it doesn't affect auto attacks anymore"
Correct, Barrage was adjusted. I was saying that prior to that, Barrage made our AA account for greater than 20% of our DPS; around 29%. Because Barrage was changed, this no longer applies and AA now accounts for around 20% of our DPS instead of 29%. Thus the 20% DPS increase is a wash with the loss of our AA. We gain 20% DPS in WM, lose 20% DPS to AA and then lose 15% DPS to singing. this as opposed to just losing 15% from singing is essentially the same thing.
The additional skills when in WM are both good skills. But the fact that we can only use one OGCD between attacks (instead of 2, like we used to be able to), Straight Shot procs don't work properly with the cast bar, we clip all OCGD (procs and buffs) with our next GCD by around .5 seconds and the lack of movement all make for a pretty poor combo if you're playing bard at a high level of content.