How is BLM in new expansion?

Been tempted to try it out my main is sch and smn just doesnt do it for me.

don't like it they nerfed that job down again.

They only nerfed Flare (less damage on multiple mobs, full damage on single mobs) and Manawall (which can be seen as a nerf and a buff. From a nerf stand point, it won't protect you from two Earthshakers. From a buff standpoint, Manawall doesn't disappear after two physical hits, if the mob doesn't hit too hard). BLM is still the same ol' Job I love, with new toys that make it better (Ley Lines and Sharpcast, for example). Fire and Blizzard were also given another buff, so we now deal more single target damage.

Not sure what they did with Fire II, though.

Fire II is the same as before, 100 potency - Ley lines lets you actually cast Thunder III in ice -> fire transition so you get 6 more seconds out of that buff. Sharpcast can be used to max dmg while buffed with dmg+ for extra dmg and prolonging the time you stay in fire. Judging that mobs die usually in one firechain up to lvl 56 i wouldnt say they nerfed it :P Blizzard IV is a 280 potency which you get at 58 and Fire IV at 60, will have to see how playing changes when those two hit.

tl,dr:

BLM is more technical then before. Our Single target dmg got buffed and at 60 with Fire IV we will dish out really big hits. Aoe got toned down, but im fine with that - AoEing in dungeons is still fast thanks to the buffs we got

('-')/

Our skill cap is much higher than before. Damage wise, I'm finding we're running top of the ranged DPS (though I've yet to see a 60 MCN) and can even beat melee if we're allowed to run through our entire enochian phase without interruption. Our AOE took a bit of a hit yea, but its still much higher than any of the melees, or BRDs (again not really sure about MCN and the SMNs I've had have been dubious quality at best in AOE so I don't know how they look when played correctly).

Overall, I think we're in a fine spot right now. You just gotta be ready to step up your game as the BLM rotation isn't quite as ABC as it used to be. So take all the complexity of movement optimization and put it together with a new revamped rotation and you got possibly the highest skill capped dps class in the game right now (maybe DRGs are harder, unsure).

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Originally Posted by Zencurse

Our skill cap is much higher than before. Damage wise, I'm finding we're running top of the ranged DPS (though I've yet to see a 60 MCN) and can even beat melee if we're allowed to run through our entire enochian phase without interruption. Our AOE took a bit of a hit yea, but its still much higher than any of the melees, or BRDs (again not really sure about MCN and the SMNs I've had have been dubious quality at best in AOE so I don't know how they look when played correctly).

Overall, I think we're in a fine spot right now. You just gotta be ready to step up your game as the BLM rotation isn't quite as ABC as it used to be. So take all the complexity of movement optimization and put it together with a new revamped rotation and you got possibly the highest skill capped dps class in the game right now (maybe DRGs are harder, unsure).

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Can you stand still for as long as you would like in the new fights though?

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Originally Posted by Meleoffs

Can you stand still for as long as you would like in the new fights though?

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After doing Ravana and Bismarck HM a few times: in my opinion - no...there's even more movement than Titan Ex (maybe it just feels like to me?)
And i have the feeling that i always get an aoe attack to dodge after i casted Ley-Lines


tbh...atm i don't like the blm at all...i hope this will change after i got 60 and have a proper rotation.

Until we reach 60 the Mana Pool is all over the place too - the amounts arent proper to the amount spells cost - you often miss 10-20 more mp to cast Blizz 3 because you werent at max when you started, then at other times you get an auto tick and could cast one more AoE instead of flare and waste the whole chain.

Lvling is always a mess, when were at 60 we finally can get used to a new rotation and to mp values to get it right all the time =.=

I really don't like this whole "you have to be in a special mode to cast the next tier of fire and ice spells" approach. Doesn't look like it's that hard to keep it going, but it just feels like a needlessly added mechanic to make the job hit more buttons and watch more timers than it was doing previously.

It's pretty bad. Fights weren't made with BLM in mind. Just play smn, its better in literally everyway

So playing BLM is like being stuck between a rock and a hard place now.

Your entire rotation hinges on perfecting a balance between two timers (Enochian and Astral Fire), and if a mechanic or mistake trips up even just one of those timers, it's a big hit to your entire rotation. On a dummy, the rotation is complex but workable, but on the field and in raids, mechanics make this timer juggle extremely difficult and cumbersome. The worst is missing a refresh on your Enochian timer, which can then leave you locked out of your key damage dealer, Fire IV, for upwards of 30 seconds. It's very punishing gameplay out in movement heavy raids. Can't say I'm enjoying it.

I have not had the chance to play with anything more then Laylines and Sharpcast being only 55 but when the abilities were announced, I was VERY worried about the job becoming needlessly complex.. We all know how much movement is required in content and the last thing BLM needs on top of that, is to juggle two buff timers to make sure your DPS rotation works.


I hope this gets a fix or that , at the very least, it's heavily exaggerated how bad the blm end game is right now. it's my favorite job, always has been. I don't relish the thought of switching to something else I don't enjoy the other jobs as much.

I guess Will just see, I feel like this could be avoided by allowing blizzard 4 and Fire 4 to refresh the respective astral/umbral buffs, thus cutting down on the issue, or turn fire 3 and blizzard 3 INTO fire 4 and blizzard 4 on your bar while in Enchocian but like I said...I've not had the chance to play with these abilities yet.

I'm loving BLM for what it can do with single target spells, but with its AoE spells? I'm... not so sure about it now. Fire II only has a potency of 100 and Flare is only 260 (and less if there's more than one mob). Fire IV has the same potency as Fire III (280), but costs less MP to cast than Fire (which still needs to be cast every two Fire IV's to refresh Astral. Three if Ley Lines are up).

Hrm.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I'm loving BLM for what it can do with single target spells, but with its AoE spells? I'm... not so sure about it now. Fire II only has a potency of 100 and Flare is only 260 (and less if there's more than one mob). Fire IV has the same potency as Fire III (280), but costs less MP to cast than Fire (which still needs to be cast every two Fire IV's to refresh Astral. Three if Ley Lines are up).

Hrm.

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Wat. Fire 3 is 240 Potency. Fire 4 is +40 potency, and less mana.

I must have misread things, then. Anyway, point is about AoE's.

flare and whm's holy didn't need the nerf, its pointless, all it does is slow down aoe trash kills. but I guess we can live with it.

manawall nerf is way worse though. before I knew I could eat certain attacks every once in awhile and that also helped the healer, now a duration % buff that really doesn't protect that much has gimped us, it means we have to move in general if being mauled now especially if we have more than one mob on us. manawall before was a oh shit im being hit protect myself and wait for tank to grab agro. now its ill reduce my damage received have to move or get interrupts anyways and totally screw up my dps type skill.


ley lines is a good skill and gives a decent boost to cast speed, I use it just after thunder but before fire chain and on single target we can bring things down very quickly.

on aoe though im not so sure of its usefulness yet as it seems to be messing with mana ticks, but that could just be because I havnt hit 60 yet and have a set amount of mana.

speaking of mana.. x-ether is now pretty much useless as it doesn't give enough mp back to flare, need to check hq but I doubt it will be enough at level 60.

not sure if they added a new mana potion into the game because I havnt been levelling my crafts yet to see.

sharpcast is pretty cool but im unsure what is the best use of it yet, it effects scathe seems pointless, effects thunder but again a thunder proc doesn't help much since we will reapply thunder anyways, so last a nd probs best choice is fire, but problem with that is you never know if you would of gotten a proc anyways but h well its a free fire 3 which if crits is a good boost.

enochian, I just got this skill and a damage boost is a good thing but seems like it may be a bit awkward to weave in with raging strikes

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I must have misread things, then. Anyway, point is about AoE's.

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our aoe got nerfed but it's still very powerful. Just not the god-mode-triple-whatever-any-other-class-could-imagine that we used to have (and tbf we were godmode in aoe for the entirety of ARR. I enjoyed it while it lasted but I think we all knew deep down that this would happen eventually). fire2 is 180 in af3, which is still powerful for aoe filler. flare is between 234 and 468 potency depending on the target, but honestly 234 is still a really high aoe potency.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I'm loving BLM for what it can do with single target spells, but with its AoE spells? I'm... not so sure about it now. Fire II only has a potency of 100 and Flare is only 260 (and less if there's more than one mob). Fire IV has the same potency as Fire III (280), but costs less MP to cast than Fire (which still needs to be cast every two Fire IV's to refresh Astral. Three if Ley Lines are up).

Hrm.

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Flare's potency is 468 on the first hit, above 200 on the last, and Fire II is 180 under Astral Fire III, so Black mages still hit really hard. When you read the potency of your spells, remember that is base and not under Fire/Ice stance. Your damage is fine. Fire I and Blizzard I even got a buff. Flare got a nerf yes (and much needed because it was ridiculous in ARR), but is still one of the strongest AOE attacks in the game.

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Originally Posted by Fatshine

Flare got a nerf yes (and much needed because it was ridiculous in ARR)

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? If anything they took BLM's aoe and gave it to summoner. Summoner's aoe dps is insane right now.
At the risk of sounding judgemental. People playing summoners in this expansions are the last persons who can say a nerf to someone is "much needed"

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Originally Posted by hallena

It's pretty bad. Fights weren't made with BLM in mind. Just play smn, its better in literally everyway

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The irony.

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Originally Posted by HeavensSword

The irony.

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Is it ironic because of smn's state in arr? Because smn were not far behind blm in ARR. compared to blm in heavenward who cannot even play properly when movement is involved

I'm perfectly fine with them toning down our aoe. It was kind of dumb to have aoe be our best role when it's so minimal in any encounter. And our single target is buffed, by quite a bit. We are very competitive, though for me it's the price of that competitiveness. I was worried about Enochian, and while that may have been a bit overblown, the problem is keeping track of Enochian AND Astral Fire on the movement heavy fights that we have. It's a nightmare. I liked how blm's rotation was simple before, and the difference between a good and bad blm was more in managing movement. Now that's entirely gone. Or more accurately should I say our rotation has become vastly more complicated but we still have movement as a huge deterrent to our dps. Having essentially Greased Lightning on a 10s duration and it can only be refreshed by a 2.5 cast is not fun or what I signed up for. Fire IV is satisfying but I really hope there are changes to make this more fun to play soon.

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Originally Posted by hallena

Is it ironic because of smn's state in arr? Because smn were not far behind blm in ARR. compared to blm in heavenward who cannot even play properly when movement is involved

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It's ironic because before the expac launch, summoners were always comparing themselves negatively to BLM. There were even those saying: "Don't play SMN, you are better off playing BLM".

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Originally Posted by Kailii

snippity snips

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Not to be contrarian, but I've been enjoying it for the exact reasons you're not enjoying it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I find it really engaging to have a new layer of mechanics to keep track of.

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Originally Posted by HeavensSword

It's ironic because before the expac launch, summoners were always comparing themselves negatively to BLM. There were even those saying: "Don't play SMN, you are better off playing BLM".

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Only difference is, Smn wasn't broken like BLM is now. I have faith that SE will make some minor adjustments to the new skills to allow us to effectively utilize them as intended. As of right now, regardless of what anyone says, BLM is broken. If you can literally stand still the entire fight and have no boss jumps/invulnerable, then you can play BLM 3.0. If not then you are relegated to simply playing BLM 2.0 with a nifty 30s haste buff. That's it.

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

Only difference is, Smn wasn't broken like BLM is now. I have faith that SE will make some minor adjustments to the new skills to allow us to effectively utilize them as intended. As of right now, regardless of what anyone says, BLM is broken. If you can literally stand still the entire fight and have no boss jumps/invulnerable, then you can play BLM 3.0. If not then you are relegated to simply playing BLM 2.0 with a nifty 30s haste buff. That's it.

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People are looking way too deeply into my comment. The statement was ironic. That is all.

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Originally Posted by HeavensSword

People are looking way too deeply into my comment. The statement was ironic. That is all.

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People tend to see such comments as "HAHA! it's your turn now to be underpowered! suck it"
don't take it personal.

I'm regretting taking BLM through the story line. Don't get me wrong, I'm digging the rotation changes and getting used to stuff, but Ravana and Bismarck have so much movement that it makes having Ley Lines nay useless, while also putting up weak DPS. Eochian and Blizzard IV seem lackluster ATM, I figure that'll get better with Fire IV, but leveling from 58-60 almost seems like not even worth using.

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Originally Posted by hallena

People tend to see such comments as "HAHA! it's your turn now to be underpowered! suck it"
don't take it personal.

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I gathered that when the 2 responses were from BLMs. Btw, my BLM is 50 and my SMN is 34.
Don't take it personal.

There will hopefully be a balance patch before the raids start.

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Originally Posted by HeavensSword

I gathered that when the 2 responses were from BLMs. Btw, my BLM is 50 and my SMN is 34.
Don't take it personal.

There will hopefully be a balance patch before the raids start.

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While i am not doubting a balance patch will happen. I highly doubt anything will happen before 3.1

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Originally Posted by hallena

? If anything they took BLM's aoe and gave it to summoner. Summoner's aoe dps is insane right now.
At the risk of sounding judgemental. People playing summoners in this expansions are the last persons who can say a nerf to someone is "much needed"

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So you are mad that instead of being king of AOE, you are now a prince of AOE? Seems like you ignored everything else I posted. As a Summoner, yes I will say what needed a nerf and what didn't because I've played both casters at the highest level, and put a lot of time into both jobs. There is so much crying right now it's ridiculous. Once everyone is adequately geared and has more time, then we will see the numbers/stat weights/issues/etc. SE will buff/nerf something if needed and they do a good job at it.

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Originally Posted by Fatshine

Snip.

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No i am "mad" because you are claiming BLM got a well deserved nerf when you are most likely fine with smn having Arr's BLM tier aoe aswell as top tier single target, mobility and utility.
I don't mind when developer nerf things that are overpowered. Taking something from someone, giving it to another one and calling it balance is not fine

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Originally Posted by hallena

No i am "mad" because you are claiming BLM got a well deserved nerf when you are most likely fine with smn having Arr's BLM tier aoe aswell as top tier single target, mobility and utility.

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A true statement is true regardless of who says it. Him being a smn is irrelevant.

If you think it's an untrue statement, then argue for that position, but right now you're just attacking him personally.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

A true statement is true regardless of who says it. Him being a smn is irrelevant.

If you think it's an untrue statement, then argue for that position, but right now you're just attacking him personally.

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But it is a true statement. BLM aoe dps was overpowered. So overpowered they gave it to summoner instead. So incredibly overpowered its balanced now that summoner can do it.

About the BLM AoE... I am only comparing it to SMN.

At 60, a good SMN pulls 50% more AoE than me. Not only they nerfed Flare, but they gave them 2 new AoE tools AND Bane affects all target (With less damage per target like Flare which is still a buff) SMN also performs better in single target because they handle mechanics 20 times better than BLMs. In other words, right now SMN seems superior in every aspect and there is zero reason to play a BLM. I'm probably gonna raid as SMN.

The worst part, F4, B4 potencies used to be lower when Yoshi-P demonstrated it. It looked like 260 Potency. They also fixed Leylines so it stays even if you leave it. Those are all emergency hotfixes before the expansion. And we are paying the price for it.

"Attack Speed" that people seems to think is great is cancer for BLM. It reduces the current GCD by 15%. This mean at 0 spell speed, you drop to 2.125 GCD for F1. Add spell speed and the value of Attack Speed is decreased, I go from 2.42 to 2.06 which is 0.26 sec difference versus 0.375. So as my gear improves, my brand new ability gets weaker.

You think the AoE nerf was well deserved? Casters are suppose to have an advantage for AoE over other jobs, I feel I could outdps my AoE BLM with my AoE Dragoon now. BLM should be equal to SMN in AoE and this is not the case right now.

Meanwhile, I'm blowing my mind trying to figure out how to DPS in Bismark Ex. On paper and dummy, my DPS is great. Not so true in reality until I find the perfect way to work around the fight.

Also... Fatshine and for anyone that think BLM deserved that nerf, you should play the job and see it for yourself before you talk loud and claim that it was deserved. I see a lot of Bard crying about Minuet and I'm not there yelling at them to get good with turret rotation. I don't have the right to claim something about a job I haven't played yet.

On a GOOD side, casting F4 3 times in a row is a satisfying sight. The DPS looks great, mobility is even more harder to handle in 3.0 right now. It's annoying to get targeted under your Leylines also.

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Originally Posted by hallena

But it is a true statement. BLM aoe dps was overpowered. So overpowered they gave it to summoner instead. So incredibly overpowered its balanced now that summoner can do it.

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This is not balanced. You don't simply give so much AoE to another job it beats the previous AoE king by 50% if well played. It's a failure to properly balance jobs. Single target wise, SMN and BLM seems to be equal on a dummy. Not in AoE.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

Snip

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I haven't gotten either to 60 yet, but you know I play both since we have talked about BiS gear sets for BLM in Final Coil on reddit. I will take your word for it about SMN doing 50% more AOE and being better in all categories, however, looks like people are forgetting, or choosing to ignore the fact that BLM has better than SMN in all categories for almost the entire time of 2.0 - 2.55. If SMN needs a nerf, or BLM a buff in order to be equal at AOE in Heavensward, then I can accept that. I just find it irritating the Final Coil bullshit we went through with itemization and mp issues, to only being desired in Second Coil for T7 kiting, to having Thunder I replaced with Blizzard II, to have people cry and complain that SMN OP and BLM sucks now. We were second rate casters for 2 years.

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Originally Posted by Fatshine

I haven't gotten either to 60 yet, but you know I play both since we have talked about BiS gear sets for BLM in Final Coil on reddit. I will take your word for it about SMN doing 50% more AOE and being better in all categories, however, looks like people are forgetting, or choosing to ignore the fact that BLM has better than SMN in all categories for almost the entire time of 2.0 - 2.55. If SMN needs a nerf, or BLM a buff in order to be equal at AOE in Heavensward, then I can accept that. I just find it irritating the Final Coil bullshit we went through with itemization and mp issues, to only being desired in Second Coil for T7 kiting, to having Thunder I replaced with Blizzard II, to have people cry and complain that SMN OP and BLM sucks now. We were second rate casters for 2 years.

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"And so the opressed shall become the oppressors, furthering the cycle of hypocrisy."

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This is not balanced. You don't simply give so much AoE to another job it beats the previous AoE king by 50% if well played. It's a failure to properly balance jobs. Single target wise, SMN and BLM seems to be equal on a dummy. Not in AoE.

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Your sarcasm-o-meter is broken

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Originally Posted by FrejyaAthenes

"And so the opressed shall become the oppressors, furthering the cycle of hypocrisy."

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Not really, I said I wouldn't mind a nerf/buff to either job so they can be equal. Nick picking at it's finest.

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Originally Posted by Fatshine

snip

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"We deserve to be overpowered because we have been underpowered before" - The post
Last time i saw something like that was years ago on the wow forum. Never thought i'd see this crap again