Flare and Holy got nerfed.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHvJ0tGUEAAN7HZ.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHuzZ7JUwAA9xgA.jpg

Discuss.

It would seem SE wants to limit the number of targets that can be effectively killed at once with AOE. I guess the SMN Bane limit is finally balanced now, even if I would have rathered they buff Bane instead of nerfing the other AOEs.

I imagine Deathflare will have the same limitation.

That's honestly a forgiving balance, it's not like they have it count for each target til it's only 10% potentcy at least you will still have 50% potency from targets 5+ so it's not exactly hurting BLM it's just leveling the playing field for SMN/SCH that were limited by the range of which Bane offered it's DoT on target.

The problem with this is that Flare is a waste of MP now. Might as well just convert and Fire 2 some more.

So Flare is only good for single target now. Thanks, SE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Airget

That's honestly a forgiving balance, it's not like they have it count for each target til it's only 10% potentcy at least you will still have 50% potency from targets 5+ so it's not exactly hurting BLM it's just leveling the playing field for SMN/SCH that were limited by the range of which Bane offered it's DoT on target.

---

Errm... well, unless Bane also reduces the potency on its targets (hint, it doesn't), then there's no way this is remotely balanced.

I take back my previous statement that said the new HM roulette was the worst part of 3.0. We have a new contender for the crown, and it's the AoE nerfs. Thanks Squeenix. No one asked for it, no one wanted it, but you gave it to us anyway. But hey, got to make that summoner look better than it is, right?

Since this thread was hijacked, I'm going to hijack my response from that thread.

^That's actually incredibly sad. One of my most favorite things about this game is owning dungeons as a WHM. It makes each and every dungeon 10+ minutes faster.

I love jumping into a roulette with unsuspecting strangers and totally nuke the hell out of each dungeon/trial that I'm. No one expects it lol. Also, in most runs: I out DPS the DPS.

That said, you have to admit that both were very OP and were used in a way that was not originally intended, I'm sure.

A thing that keeps coming to mind on this is:
Speed runs are usually around 12-16 minutes, give or take?
Didn't they say that the new dungeons were made to be cleared in 18?

If this is the case, I don't think this will matter much to us in the end. Besides, we'll also all have new skills.

So I guess this really ends the debate, blm to 60 first or drk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

Errm... well, unless Bane also reduces the potency on its targets (hint, it doesn't), then there's no way this is remotely balanced.

I take back my previous statement that said the new HM roulette was the worst part of 3.0. We have a new contender for the crown, and it's the AoE nerfs. Thanks Squeenix. No one asked for it, no one wanted it, but you gave it to us anyway. But hey, got to make that summoner look better than it is, right?

---

Bane spreads DoTs remember, it doesn't do any direct damage. Flare and Holy are burst damage which makes them far more valuable since most things die before DoTs run their full duration. On top of that a BLM or WHM can cast Flare or Holy multiple times in succession... Spamming bane does nothing to increase the damage. A BLM can hit Flare twice in under five seconds and do more damage than a SMN using Bane will do in 30s. If you think that was ever balanced then I don't know what to say to you.

This change is very much balanced.

it's about time. now maybe people will actually try during dungeons instead of flare and holy spam until the dodo come to roost.

I honestly see nothing wrong with the Holy change because honestly if there is more than 4-5 enemies I'm probably Divine Seal + Presence of Mind Cure II'ing the tank... don't really see the justification for doing it to Flare Though.

Also how would the game decide 1st 2nd 3rd?

As a Blm Mage I'm not thrilled with this.... seems like a half assed way to make it more difficult to speed run through stuff.

If you want to make it harder to speed run content nerfing a skill isn't a way I would like to see developers deal with that... I'd rather you know make dungeons more dangerous so you are not willing to pull several groups at once.
I'll let the theory crafters evaluate this but seems like flare will be out of the rotation except for openers at this point.... No use in blowing the MP otherwise and the downtime is too great for this to be worth it in my opinion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TessaJalloh

it's about time. now maybe people will actually try during dungeons instead of flare and holy spam until the dodo come to roost.

---

Until you get tired of a dungeon because you'll have to farm it 30+ times for whatever thing we'll have to farm it for (relic for example). :D

I blame all the peeps who didn't pull dungeons with honor.

This is your reckoning sirs and madams, and I name thee all cowards and cravens.

seems to be a blm nerf every major patch lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reillyblair

seems to be a blm nerf every major patch lol

---

Yoshi usually buffs them somehow later down the road, though.

This is his main class after all XD

Not a blm main. But I don't see why they really did this unless they've done this to all the aoe's on each individual job. Because blm or not....I still mass pull and this just seems to kinda kill what the general BLM population is good at, killing multiple targets fast.

If they really want to make it to where we don't mass pull...they should nerf cures or make the mobs actually hit hard, because that is and will always will be the factor that allows it. Rather if it's still worth it or not at that point is a entirely different story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seku

Not a blm main. But I don't see why they really did this unless they've done this to all the aoe's on each individual job. Because blm or not....I still mass pull and this just seems to kinda kill what the general BLM population is good at, killing multiple targets fast.

---

Well, technically, you can still Fire II spam, not like they nerfed that. Ofc, they're essentially telling you to use the AoE that matches potency with DRG over using your best one constantly :P

Thought one of the new skills was AoE too though? IK WHM's Aero III is AoE.

I'm glad they're finally crushing speed running.

It's worth noting that the fire 2 potency is confirmed to be the same, and fire 1 is getting a 10 potency increase. (Screenshots are in the purostrider Blm guide thread) so fire 2 is still viable AOE and likely still higher than other jobs... But that flare nerf seems atrocious the more I look at it.

Depending on how it shakes out in potency versus fire 4 in an opener I wonder if it will even be used in openers anymore :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

I'm glad they're finally crushing speed running.

---

They're merely just slowing them down. Even when I'm running a dungeon with SCH and NIN/MNK I do big pulls.

Normally I would agree with the whole "it eats your MP" should be enough of a cost, but even then it's not much of one really. You cast flare, use conversion, oh look, depending on piety you could Fire II then Flare again.

And even if conversion is on cooldown, you simply transpose and instantly get enough MP to cast Blizzard III. Rinse and repeat.

While I agree the BLM is meant to be the AoE character for the game, at the same time there really isn't much cost to using our skills if you know how to manage your MP. So long as we can almost instantly regenerate all of our MP big skills like Flare need to have restrictions that similar skills on other classes don't since those classes can't regen MP like we do. People will still spam it along with Fire II.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

Until you get tired of a dungeon because you'll have to farm it 30+ times for whatever thing we'll have to farm it for (relic for example). :D

---

Nerfing dungeons because you might have to run them multiple times doesn't make the game more fun, just more pointless. If expert roullette is going to be a core part of the game, would be nice if it lasted longer than 15-20 min and was more fun to do.