A new perspective on the Ascian Plan! *Spoilers*

So I was just watching the last bit of Dialogue between Elidibus and Urianger and noticed something that slipped past me before. Elidibus says, "I would speak of fate, Archon. Yours, mine -- the fate of this very star."

'Star'. This word stuck out to me. Why would he refer to Hydaelyn as a star? We know now that the FFXIV universe has stars, constellations, moons, and at one of the Fanfest Lore panels Fernehawles spoke of the Allagan having spacetravel technology, so it appears that the universe of FFXIV has a space design that mirrors our own in basic design.

I say all this to repeat again, why did he use the name star in that sentence? It made me think, that mayhap he was not speaking of Hydaelyn, but in fact the star that provides life and light to Hydaelyn. All along Elidibus has told us that if we knew what he knew, that we would be on the Ascian's side. So what if...

What if the sun to the FFXIV universe is on its last cycle before going supernova? What if 'Zodiark' is a type of world destroyer that would feed Hydaelyn as fuel to the sun that would somehow create a reaction to stabilize it? Now say that in this solar system that Hydaelyn is in, there are other planets, with their own lifeforms and civilizations. It could indeed be seen as the 'greater good' to sacrifice Hydaelyn to save the other planets. The storyline could be that when we find out, we have to try and find an alternate way to prolong the life of the sun, as an alternative to destroying our planet.

I know all of this is a bit of a stretch based off of one little word, and for all I know, in Japanese the word they use is the word for 'planet'. But I thought I would post my little hypothesis here and let you guys run with it. It would certainly provide an understandable perspective on the 'Destroy Hydaelyn for the greater good' line the Ascians keep giving us.

By that theory what makes Hydaelyn any more worthy of destruction than the others? And I could swaer I remember the word "Realm" used in the EN dub.

Hmmm, that's interesting.

We know in some FF each world exists in a planet and there's a concept of a universe with potential life.

It very well is possible that Hydaelyn/Zodiark could be a foreign ...thing. Afterall, as Ramuh said, in the beginning there was no light/darkness.

Also, it seems as if Stars are important in FF14's world. The Heart of Sabik (Ultima's core) is named after a star in the Zordiark constellation, the Astrologians saw a star shining bright which meant that Midgardsomnr and crew were acting, and more

With Star could als well be meant the Planet where we Life. In older Speech there is no difference between planets and stars. they all called "star".

Perhaps Hydaelyn possesses a quality or resource the other planets do not? Or is uniquely positioned to be the ideal choice for sacrifice? Or perhaps even Hydaelyn has the youngest civilization of the planets in the system. Lots of ways they could run with that.

Go back and listen to it, they say Star, not realm. :) Like Hypie said though, they may have been using the word Star in a very archaic sense. Thought it was worth a discussion though!

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Originally Posted by Hypie

In older Speech there is no difference between planets and stars. they all called "star".

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This is still true in Korean, which is very, very similar to Japanese. Getting told that the most distant star in the solar system is Pluto kinda left me scratching my head for a while. >_>

Midgardsormr's coming was beckoned by a star that the people of Coerthas saw and researched, that's why Ishgard came to the city-states.

My guess is that the fate of the "Star" has nothing to do with Hydaelyn but Midgardsormr.

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Originally Posted by Hypie

With Star could als well be meant the Planet where we Life. In older Speech there is no difference between planets and stars. they all called "star".

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This is my first thought as well, even in modern English, Star can mean "any heavenly body".

I'm glad to see others jumping in to note that "star" and "planet" mean the same thing here, but I also want to throw in my two cents - "star" is certainly not intended as our common English use of the word. I can almost guarantee you (though admittedly I haven't looked into it) that the word used in Japanese was "hoshi" which, like others have said, can refer to either. It was just a translation choice and doesn't in any way mean he was literally speaking about a star; he was just talking about Hydaelyn, and star was a slightly more eloquent way of putting it that's still true to the original word choice. Hoshi is, in fact, the word ALWAYS used in FFVII media to refer to the Planet, for what it's worth, so there's certainly precedent for it. My guess is that "planet" in this context would have sounded too sciency, so the localization team opted for something with a more archaic sound.

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Originally Posted by Rennah

My guess is that "planet" in this context would have sounded too sciency, so the localization team opted for something with a more archaic sound.

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I tried to argue this a while back, as well.

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Originally Posted by FFXIV 2010 Press Materials

Though [Hydaelyn] is the name of the entire planet, the term is very rarely used by its inhabitants, for to understand the concept of a planet, one must first know of other worlds, and most on Hydaelyn do not.

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Taking that into account, it's not so strange that an Imperial would refer to the planet as "one star in the Void," or that Elidibus would want to discuss "the fate of this star."

Using exceptionally archaic speech is also one of Uriange's trade marks so it would make since to speak in the same manner when Eldibeus was meeting with him.

Whelp, looks like my hypothesis doesn't hold a lot of water in light of these arguments! Thanks for the discussion guys!

one thing people seem to be skipping over is the main theme of 2.5 and the up coming heavenward.

at the very beginning the astrologians of ishgaurd talk about the 'Dragon star'

granted planet and star do mean the same, but for an ascian to say 'star' instead of 'the planet' 'realm' or 'world' is odd to me, since they DO have the concept of other worlds and realms, so that just seems off to me, to go with kise-ace, who said he uses archaic speech he uses Olde english, (and i mean really old gealic germanic old english) but the word for the planet that was used in most olde english is 'land' 'realm' and 'world' the word 'world' excisted for a long time, and has dated back thousands of years, so i still think the ascian is mearly talking about the fate of the world due to the dragon star.

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

one thing people seem to be skipping over is the main theme of 2.5 and the up coming heavenward.

at the very beginning the astrologians of ishgaurd talk about the 'Dragon star'

granted planet and star do mean the same, but for an ascian to say 'star' instead of 'the planet' 'realm' or 'world' is odd to me, since they DO have the concept of other worlds and realms, so that just seems off to me, to go with kise-ace, who said he uses archaic speech he uses Olde english, (and i mean really old gealic germanic old english) but the word for the planet that was used in most olde english is 'land' 'realm' and 'world' the word 'world' excisted for a long time, and has dated back thousands of years, so i still think the ascian is mearly talking about the fate of the world due to the dragon star.

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Well I hope the Ascians aren't just spooky looking Greenpeace activists.

In the newest Trailer, Thordan VII talks with you about the Ascian. After that Scene you see Lahabrea talking about the Echo.

"Very well, let us show these Mortals the true Power of the Echo"

"I am become you" (Igeyorhm???!) - Female Voice

"~and we are become one" - Lahabrea it seems

Uh ... count one by one ... The Ascians were originally Zodiark or what?

It seems also that the ascians are to move to restore the balance.

have we really grown so powerful that they must summon their own champions of dark to restore equilibrium?

I wonder who will be their chosen that serves as our mirror. their answer for us.

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

In the newest Trailer, Thordan VII talks with you about the Ascian. After that Scene you see Lahabrea talking about the Echo.

"Very well, let us show these Mortals the true Power of the Echo"

"I am become you" (Igeyorhm???!) - Female Voice

"~and we are become one" - Lahabrea it seems

Uh ... count one by one ... The Ascians were originally Zodiark or what?

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I like to believe it's their "primal form" as suggested in another thread that their glyphs that pop in their faces when they get serious are the glyphs that represent primals from FF12. If its that then... My brain will explode in Loregasm.

If they use this as an excuse to bring in the Espers, that would be lovely. In Ivalice, the Ascian namesakes are called the Scions of Light, so it would seem to fit that the Espers in FF14 would be the Warriors of Darkness.

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

In the newest Trailer, Thordan VII talks with you about the Ascian. After that Scene you see Lahabrea talking about the Echo.

"Very well, let us show these Mortals the true Power of the Echo"

"I am become you" (Igeyorhm???!) - Female Voice

"~and we are become one" - Lahabrea it seems

Uh ... count one by one ... The Ascians were originally Zodiark or what?

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Or at the very least Meltigemini
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Meltigemini

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Originally Posted by Dalvy

If they use this as an excuse to bring in the Espers, that would be lovely. In Ivalice, the Ascian namesakes are called the Scions of Light, so it would seem to fit that the Espers in FF14 would be the Warriors of Darkness.

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Weeeeeeeeeeell...i don't think so. The World we play in is the same where Ivalice exists. Remember this white Gal which abducted Minfilia? She was also known as "The White Witch of Ivalice". So i think in FF XIV, Ivalice is one of the Lands that is already complete under Garlean Control like Doma. And we know that the Garleans hate the Primals.

The Esper where beings of Souls sealed in Stone Sigils, which is kind of similar to the Primals. So i don't think they "survived" the Garleans. Maybe the Esper or the Problems they had with dealing them are a Source of their Hatred against the Primals. Deja Vu like ya know?

"Hey don't they look similar to the Stuff we had to deal with in Ivalice?" "Oh God no...not again...lets wipe em out at full Force right away!"

Unless they say so, Hydaelyn != Ivalice.

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Originally Posted by Hypie

Remember this white Gal which abducted Minfilia? She was also known as "The White Witch of Ivalice".

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You mean Livia? When is she called that?

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Originally Posted by Hypie

Weeeeeeeeeeell...i don't think so. The World we play in is the same where Ivalice exists. Remember this white Gal which abducted Minfilia? She was also known as "The White Witch of Ivalice". So i think in FF XIV, Ivalice is one of the Lands that is already complete under Garlean Control like Doma. And we know that the Garleans hate the Primals.

The Esper where beings of Souls sealed in Stone Sigils, which is kind of similar to the Primals. So i don't think they "survived" the Garleans. Maybe the Esper or the Problems they had with dealing them are a Source of their Hatred against the Primals. Deja Vu like ya know?

"Hey don't they look similar to the Stuff we had to deal with in Ivalice?" "Oh God no...not again...lets wipe em out at full Force right away!"

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The devs have specifically stated on multiple occasions that Eorzea and Hydaelyn have nothing at all to do with Ivalice. The Scions, Ascians and Espers are just references to the lore of Ivalice, nothing more.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

You mean Livia? When is she called that?

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Doooh thats a really good Question. The only thing i can say there are 2 Points in the Main Story where I can think of. First when they land in Eorzea. Thats around Lvl 30ish if my Memory serves me right. And the Second is when we Storm the Praetorium and fight against her. But i'm 100% certain they name her that. I will look into it.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

The devs have specifically stated on multiple occasions that Eorzea and Hydaelyn have nothing at all to do with Ivalice. The Scions, Ascians and Espers are just references to the lore of Ivalice, nothing more.

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I see. Would be strange too :) But i wonder why some of the Soldiers come from Ivalice then...well i bet just a Honor to FF 12 then.

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Originally Posted by Hypie

Doooh thats a really good Question. The only thing i can say there are 2 Points in the Main Story where I can think of. First when they land in Eorzea. Thats around Lvl 30ish if my Memory serves me right. And the Second is when we Storm the Praetorium and fight against her. But i'm 100% certain they name her that. I will look into it.

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The only google result for white witch of ivalice is your post. I think you missread something.

I assume he's conflating Ivalice with Ilsabard, the continent where Garlemald lays. I don't recall the phrase "white witch" anywhere in the game, though, whether about Livia or otherwise.