Do we know how much DPSing is expected from healers in HW?

Hello!

I recently hit 50 (WHM) and was a bit surprised that healers were expected to DPS. Whilst that is not a problem for me, I don't like it. I rolled healer because I want to heal and would prefer more damage that needs to be healed instead of switching to DPS during the times when healing is not really needed.

However, at the moment, it feels like switching to cleric stance seems to be more optional. Like, if I have the time, I should do it. But if I don't find the time for more then the dots than that's fine as well.

But like I said, I'm not a fan of that. So, do we know how that will be handled in HW? How required is DPSing? Assuming I just get into a new dungeon or raid and I'm not sure yet how much damage I can expect, would I wipe the group by playing it save?

Yoshi-P has mentioned in interviews that they tune encounters with the assumption that the healers don't add DPS, I don't think this is going to change.

I think if you only want to heal, that is perfectly fine. If you find yourself very comfortable with it one day, go for it. It is the same as tanks being pushed for str accessories. When they are comfortable and ready, that is the right time. Before then, everybody can chill out. Done some runs with some pretty demanding players, but most are really good. If anyone hassles you, tell them to back up.

Ok that sounds reassuring. Thanks, guys.

I'm still keeping an eye on this thread so if somebody has more concrete information, keep it coming.

Healers should never be expected to DPS in any content unless overall ilvls for the group are below the recommended (IE, mostly in a raid environment)

With that being said, the optimized healers will know when to DPS and when not to DPS. This comes with experience and comfort level, but should be something that a healer learns over the course of their healing career, not thrust upon them forcibly.

Yoshi-P's actually mentioned something the production team has mentioned about the meta.

Players actually advanced through endgame content like the Bahamut Coil raids much sooner than the developers expected. These raids are limited by DPS and healing checks, requiring players a minimum of equipment stats to complete. The developers underestimated players as healers and tanks started switching to DPS to meet those DPS checks. The result: at the cutting edge of those who want to be the server firsts in raids, healers and tanks are expected to DPS to meet that check.

If you're playing casually, adding dps as a healer won't be needed. That said, a lot of the new skills being added to healers and dps give them the ability to add more DPS. I think there will be a gradual shift for healers to start juggling DPS and heal phases. I just can't say to what extent you will be juggling at each level of content.

For WHM in the expansion, the addition of 2 new damage skills, an aoe regen, a lustrate-like heal, and an aoe heal/damage suggests the WHM is expected to be healing and damaging at the same time. On the other hand, it may simply be there to make it more viable in the competitive raiding scene compared to SCH who is more capable of dealing damage and healing with a fairy at the same time.

I can't say what the AST damage is like, but their kit is about buffs and debuffs and 2 skills to manage the RNG of their cards.

Scholar's getting a few things that make their healing power more compatible with other scholars in DF. Otherwise, there's the ability to spread buffs around for them and some sort of "magic power" buff/heal from sacrificing their fairy. Overall, it's aimed at improving their healing since their damage ability is already high.

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Originally Posted by Anova

If you're playing casually, adding dps as a healer won't be needed. That said, a lot of the new skills being added to healers and dps give them the ability to add more DPS. For WHM in particular, the addition of 2 new damage skills, an aoe regen, and an aoe heal/damage suggests the WHM is expected to be healing and damaging at the same time.

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This has been brought up multiple times before. The new spells and abilities white mage are getting are questionable. Unless the accuracy issue is to be solved, it's still wasteful for White Mages to take on the role the scholar has right now: supportive healing while off-DPSing. Even with the ability to deal damage and heal at the same time, there are some problems with this:
It needs cleric's stance on to deal a reasonable amount of damage
It needs cleric's stance off to heal for a reasonable amount

That is, assuming that ability/spell follows the current mechanics.

With that, if we are to assume they're not going to do anything concerning accuracy, White Mage or Astrologian would be your best bet for endgame content. Scholar will still be in a better position to off-DPS compared to the other healers and more likely expected to do so in a raid environment. Considering you're a White Mage right now, not much will change for you for HW - Unless the accuracy problem is no longer an issue.

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Originally Posted by DududeDude

Yoshi-P has mentioned in interviews that they tune encounters with the assumption that the healers don't add DPS, I don't think this is going to change.

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Unless you are in Alexander Savage where it will take healer and ot dps into account. Outside of that Cleric is purely optional.

it may sound like stating the obvious, but a lot of folks who chose a healer as their main job do so because they enjoy healing! As long as you're keeping people in your party/alliance alive, you're doing your job. There are bad ways and good ways to do this of course (bad=stuff like constantly overcuring or regen-ing the tank just before he pulls a pack of mobs) but, generally speaking, keeping everyone alive and doing their jobs is your job. So if people bitch at you because you don't like to stance dance, ignore them.

However ... I'd suggest that, as you get more used to healing post 50 and feel more comfortable, you might like to try a bit of Clerics! I thought exactly as you do, but I've been maining SCH for several months now, and I love stance dancing. Standing there doing nothing because no one needs healing - by which I mean they're all on 60% plus HP - makes me feel like I'm not contributing all that I could. You'll know when you reach that point yourself - you'll find yourself sighing and wondering why no one's taking any damage - and that's when you're ready to deeps. However, no group should EVER EVER need your deeps to clear something (unless you're a member of a hard core raid group looking for server firsts). If your party does need your damage to clear content, your DPS folks have some problems they need to address

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Originally Posted by Asyx

I recently hit 50 (WHM) and was a bit surprised that healers were expected to DPS. Whilst that is not a problem for me, I don't like it. I rolled healer because I want to heal and would prefer more damage that needs to be healed instead of switching to DPS during the times when healing is not really needed.

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As a new healer, your parties are going to expect you to keep them alive above all else. In fact, this never really changes.

When you start getting bored because there's not much to heal, or if you're simply comfortable with the encounters and wish to contribute more, that is a good time to DPS. If you want to. Keep in mind the forums are a bit of a caricature.

Are healers ever expected to dps? I play SCH, and I always try and dps when I can find the time while doing the needing healing and shielding. It seems like the right thing to do, helps the group, and I do have some free GCDs. But when I play my Bard, I really only care if the SCH is doing their healing and shielding, I don't mentally require dps of them.

It's easy to get the wrong idea from how contentious the discussion becomes, but in reality good healers know what to do and when they should be doing it. Healer DPS is really that simple.

For someone looking to maximize their support DPS as a healer while still fulfilling their healing role, full knowledge of encounters is required as well as a great deal of situational awareness and a contingency plan in case the rest of the party doesn't perform as expected.

For someone who mainly switches on CS during obvious lulls, it's a no-brainer: throw up your offensive spells while minimal damage is going out, then swap back out as damage starts to ramp up.

For someone who literally never DPSes regardless of how little healing is required, you have to question why they are standing around like the party's retainer instead of finding something useful to do.

I doubt any of that will really change come HW.

sometimes i stay there doing nothing to save and restore some mana. but that's in raidcontent or ex-primals. if things went wrong i need some mana for burstheal o.o/

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Originally Posted by Tint

sometimes i stay there doing nothing to save and restore some mana. but that's in raidcontent or ex-primals. if things went wrong i need some mana for burstheal o.o/

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I consider "saving for MP because you will (likely) need it" *is* doing something useful, and I consider that a part of healing personally. I don't really do content that requires that usually (I'm a scardy cat) but you are ensuring you can do your primary job when you need to. DPSing when you know you won't have enough mana to keep everyone alive later would be... pretty short-sighted lol

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Originally Posted by Marxam

Unless you are in Alexander Savage where it will take healer and ot dps into account. Outside of that Cleric is purely optional.

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There is a savage mode in alexander raid? I thought it was just going to be normal and hard mode. Ugg. I hope SE is not pulling mmo ideas out of wow's playbook again with 3 modes of a raid=3x the content.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

There is a savage mode in alexander raid? I thought it was just going to be normal and hard mode. Ugg. I hope SE is not pulling mmo ideas out of wow's playbook again with 3 modes of a raid=3x the content.

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Savage = HM = Extreme = Whatever.

Same thing in this case.

Unless you are pushing for raid/extreme clears, healer dps is not expected.

The bulk of healer dps you see now is the consequence of over gearing.

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Originally Posted by Shuon

Unless you are pushing for raid/extreme clears, healer dps is not expected.

The bulk of healer dps you see now is the consequence of over gearing.

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Not going to explain in detail again, but that deserves some clarification.

Short version:

Healer DPS is actually most valuable when parties are undergeared or just at-level. This is why practiced healers have a habit of helping DPS in any fight with which they are familiar and when not overly taxed by an inexperienced or incompetent party.

Healer DPS is easier for the average player to pull off when parties are overgeared. This is why you see a lot of healers in faceroll duties half-heartedly DPSing (sometimes even without CS), because they don't see much else to do.

Don't feel pressured to DPS. People do but it's more about being bored in those moments where no one is taking damage rather than fulfilling an obligation or meeting a need. In fact, spamming Stone II or Holy can use up all your MP, so it's possibly wiser to just stick to making sure everyone have Stoneskin applied when there is not much else to do.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

Unless you are in Alexander Savage where it will take healer and ot dps into account. Outside of that Cleric is purely optional.

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Pretty much this.

Yoship's comments came because of the speed Lucrezia cleared FCoB, they underestimated healer (esp scholar) DPS.

So probably Alex Savage is tuned to that. Contents below Alex Savage is pretty much for the masses so it won't be really touched.

Healers are only really expected to DPS in super end-game content, such as Coils, but even then it's not mandatory. As a WHM if I do 100-0 DPS in a raid, my static isn't going to say boo to me about it 'cause I'm where most of their healing comes from and if I don't have the time to DPS, then I don't have the time to DPS. SCHs are more expected to DPS in these types of raids, but even then it's still not mandatory. I don't know many pugs for Coil who will kick a SCH if they're not doing about as much as a DPS (like about 300-400 or something), since they're a healer and that is their priority role.

In 4-man dungeon content, the only DPS a WHM is... not expected, but I suppose the term would be requested... to do is to throw out 1-3 Holy's on a trash pack. DPS and tanks really like that stun. But anything more than that is just icing on the cake and people aren't going to get mad at you if you don't do it.

DPS on a healer is totally optional and it is completely up to you if you would like to or not. :)