fracture for a paladin?

would it be a dps gain or not?

Only worth it when FoF is up.

Dps gain massive TP loss. 80 TP doesn't seem worth it for the untraited version

I'd only use it constantly in small fights or on tank swaps otherwise it's a tp waster.

in most points not worth using because a tank that runs out of tp is kind of useless especially if there's a tone of mobs and you didn't recharge your mp to flash FB+RB.

Even if PLDs have Flash as an MP emnity generator, they still care about keeping their TP reserves up (which is another reason why people don't just spam Shield Lob all day). Remember: If you're out of TP you won't be able to 1-2-3 very well.

It is a DPS gain as long as you aren't running out of TP.

As MT you should be able to use it a lot due to being able to Shield Swipe for TP recovery.

As OT you should use it a bit just to break up your RoH combo.

I use it twice during fight or flight and that's all. It is actually one of the stronger moves PLD has access to. Being 220 potency at full duration it's stronger than shield swipe, fast blade and savage blade, although much costlier. Weaker than rage of halone, spirits within and circle of scorn.

Fracture: 220 total potency. 100 slashing potency, 120 potency DoT
PLD 123: 150 slashing + 200 slashing + 260 slashing = 610 slashing potency, or 203.33 average per GCD

With Storm's Eye up, PLD's RoH combo is raised to approximately 225 potency per GCD. Also with Storm's Eye up, Fracture is raised to approximately 231 potency per GCD.

The difference is very small and certainly doesn't warrant regular use due to its TP cost. To use it or not during FoF is tricky ... if, say, you know you're going to get exactly 4 combos in your FoF, as you should without Selene, it's probably a DPS loss to use it since you're losing a RoH buffed in exchange for a Fracture buffed. If you have very high SS (for some reason) or Selene's buff active, and it'd turn into something where your final attack in FoF will be a Fast Blade, sure, go for it, you'll have a very realistic gain.

Doesn't feel like Fracture helps me as much on PLD as it does on DPS classes, and looking @ Sleigh's post, this is almost statistically correct too.

I use it quite often depending on the fight even though the DPS increase is small it still our second strongest TP move.

You can open Halone combo or close Halone with it but never interrupt your combo. Never use it when TP is an issue.

Great for T10 right before a charge as long as Halone is not up. Great if you are only tagging a mob once or about to leave the mob and halone is not up.

I use it in conjunction with CoS... and in a not so distant future, the DoT after Riot Blade.

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Originally Posted by rawker

I use it in conjunction with CoS... and in a not so distant future, the DoT after Riot Blade.

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The new offensive skills will make fracture worthless. Its only used now because of how limited PLD is.

wasn't really worth it in the first place...mind you pld has some pretty poor cross-class skills outside stoneskin, mercy stroke and foresight.

tp cost isn't really worth it. especially when you account for upkeep during prolonged engagements.

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

wasn't really worth it in the first place...mind you pld has some pretty poor cross-class skills outside stoneskin, mercy stroke and foresight.

tp cost isn't really worth it. especially when you account for upkeep during prolonged engagements.

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2nd strongest GCD skill for PLD....

Fracture sucks as PLD. Maybe use it when off-tanking a primal or boss or something but thats it. Get Stoneskin or Cure or something. Yea Cure sucks as a tank but ill use it more than a fracture.

Despite the unappealing tp cost of it, it's one of those ws that does high pot and not requiring any combo build up. Sure it's limited but it's there so I'll find ways I can fit it in.

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Originally Posted by rawker

Despite the unappealing tp cost of it, it's one of those ws that does high pot and not requiring any combo build up. Sure it's limited but it's there so I'll find ways I can fit it in.

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Exactly.

Its 220 potency. The only stronger attack is Halone which requires 3 GCDs. The only reason not to use Fracture is TP.

Stoneskin I say is our best additional, but its use is extremely limited.
Mercy Stroke is meh but a free oGCD.
Foresight again is Meh.
Bloodbath is Meh.
Fracture is our second strongest GCD attack.

And in HW, one can go Gory Blade combo into CoS into Fracture for a whooping 3 DoTs. Considering skillspeed will also affect dots and CHR will also increase crit damage, it is feasible to have a SkS + crit OT PLD. If Royal Authority will be PLD's maim, then it makes it even better.

As Rawker said, I use it at the same as CoS ... And I abuse Shield Swipe to maintain TP as long as possible.

It's net DPS gain, but a net TP loss. I personnaly stop using it if I get below 250 TP.

I also agree with people that say our choice of cross-class skills, as PLD, is quite limited.

Stoneskin is the only one anyone should have, and considering we'll get more chances to maintain MP with Shelltron and Goring Blade combo, its usefulness will go up.

Cure is decent until level 49, not so great at 50, but still ends up giving you back more than Bloodbath, also, depending on Divine Veil's cooldown, it could be great for soloing in order to more often activate the barrier effect.

Protect is good for soloing, and will get Proshell after Heavensward.

Foresight doesn't make much of a difference on big boss fights, but it's another cooldown to add to your rotation while doing dungeons and it's better than nothing when all the other ones are down. I'd say it's the second more useful one.

Skull Sunder ? Not worth mentionning.

Raise ? Takes half of our MP and can't use it outside of battle. Chances are you'll almost never use it.

That leaves Mercy Stroke and Fracture. The first is OGCD but only useable under 20%, the other is used well with Circle of Scorn. Therefore I prefer Fracture.

And so, for reasons above, I use Foresight, Cure, Protect, Fracture, Stoneskin.

Garlandtools.org already has the details for PLD abilities. Goring Blade does 220 pot with a DoT of 40 pot for 24 secs!!! We ACN now.

If the tooltips are correct, Royal Authority will be a 340 potency hit after Savage Blade. 150 + 200 + 340 is 690 potency across 3 GCDs for the dps combo. This averages as 230 potency per GCD. I think Royal Authority was 60 TP too, so an average 63.3 TP per GCD for this.

Fracture is 220 potency for 80 TP. Once you get Royal Authority (unless they change the numbers from what we've seen) then it's going to be a flat out DPS loss AND huge TP loss to use Fracture in ANY situation. It has limited use before Royal Authority arrives, but but once you get high enough Fracture will be completely useless, except possibly in the very very very rare situations when you have to break off combat and only have time for one GCD or something.

It's looking like it's likely not worth slotting at all in Heavensward - I think I'd rather have the new Protect along with its MagicDef instead, so you can help buff anyone that gets ressed. Hardly worth it but it seems that hitting Fracture at any point is going to be "the wrong decision" when you can just throw out a goring or royal combo instead once you have a threat lead. It'll also be nice having access to a self Protect if you're doing solo stuff, especially if the new overworld mobs are supposed to be a lot tougher to fight than the 2.0 ones.

The optimal Paladin dps rotation looks like it's going to be a Fast/Riot/Goring combo to apply the DoT lasting 24 seconds, and then three Fast/Savage/Royal combos (possibly two if you manage to get absurd amounts of skillspeed, but three combos should mean the Goring dot falls off just as you do your Riot blade). Using Fracture at any point here will be a dps and TP loss.

TLDR: Fracture was okay for situational DPS increase at level 50, but it looks like the two new DPS moves we get from 51-60 will make it completely and totally worthless and not worth slotting.

Fracture is dead.

Goring Blade and Royal Authority both make it useless.

(PLD is in a bad spot in general based on the update qq)

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Fracture is dead.

Goring Blade and Royal Authority both make it useless.

(PLD is in a bad spot in general based on the update qq)

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Do you mean gameplay wise or damage/utility wise?

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

(PLD is in a bad spot in general based on the update qq)

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If you purely want the MT to survive, PLD is still probably the most reliable tank, more so than ever with that 30s recast guaranteed block.

If you're talking about DPS or utility it brings, it's possible it's getting the boot. The only tank I know for sure should stay is WAR, Path and Eye don't look to be going anywhere.

I wouldn't be so quick to bet against PLD DPS.

WAR is in the limelight right now with all the DPS stacks and Fell + Zerk swooning...

But that's all stuck inbetween moments of lower potency WSs.

PLD may not be sexy, but considering sustained DPS and where WAR sits comparatively in that bracket I think the DPS testing tomorrow will find some surprising interesting results.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

The only tank I know for sure should stay is WAR, Path and Eye don't look to be going anywhere.

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Whilst the Warrior is the most convenient way of applying these buffs, Ninja can handle the Storms Eye if you run Paladin/Dark Knight, and Dark Knight's Reprisal skill seems to have the Storms Path Debuff (-10% damage done for 20 seconds, though the skill itself is on a 30 second cooldown. It doesnt say it doesnt stack with storms path though).

With Dark Knight also having the -10% Int debuff that Monks brought, it seems your options now are either PLD + Warrior with a Monk in the melee, Dark Knight + Paladin with a Ninja in the melee, or Dark Knight + Warrior with whatever melee you want (but missing the -10% Str of Halone). Ironically it's now Paladin that seems to have the only unique reduction debuff, though it's probably the least strong of the three.

Hmmm, frankly I think Fracture will still have it's place overall in terms of higher DPS output. All things considered, there's usually plenty of mechanics to break away and restore tp in major fights, so that should be a non issue unless your spamming your TP moves wastefully like Shield Bash and Lob.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

Hmmm, frankly I think Fracture will still have it's place overall in terms of higher DPS output. All things considered, there's usually plenty of mechanics to break away and restore tp in major fights, so that should be a non issue unless your spamming your TP moves wastefully like Shield Bash and Lob.

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The problem with Fracture in 3.0 isnt the TP though, it's the potency. Royal Authority is so strong as a move that the 3 move Fast->Savage->Royal combo does more damage per global cooldown than a Fracture, even if it ticks for the full duration. Using Fracture at any point rather than just spamming your Royal Authority combo (and keeping up Goring Blade) is going to be a DPS loss even if you have infinite TP. Fracture just isnt strong enough when crossclassed now - it's only worth using for Warriors who have the trait to boost it to 30 seconds duration.

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

The problem with Fracture in 3.0 isnt the TP though, it's the potency. Royal Authority is so strong as a move that the 3 move Fast->Savage->Royal combo does more damage per global cooldown than a Fracture, even if it ticks for the full duration. Using Fracture at any point rather than just spamming your Royal Authority combo (and keeping up Goring Blade) is going to be a DPS loss even if you have infinite TP. Fracture just isnt strong enough when crossclassed now - it's only worth using for Warriors who have the trait to boost it to 30 seconds duration.

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Ah! That is indeed handy to know about the average TP. I guess the only reason to slot it now is for lower level sync content and perhaps to add some (inefficient) variety to the Paladin's rotations. xP

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Originally Posted by Valenth

Ah! That is indeed handy to know about the average TP. I guess the only reason to slot it now is for lower level sync content and perhaps to add some (inefficient) variety to the Paladin's rotations. xP

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Yep, I think so! Fracture will still have its use at level 50 when you don't have the two new skills. Literally the only reason I can see it being of any use at 60 is when a Boss you're attacking is about to take off, like Garuda going skywards, and you know -exactly- when it will happen, and you know you wont be able to complete a full 3 hit Royal Authority Combo before it disappears, so your last swing on it can be a Fracture.... provided all 18 seconds of dot will tick. I'm not sure that's worth a slot on the bar!

Any situation where you're either tunneling damage into a stationary target, or trying to weave some DPS moves between your Halone threat rotation, Fracture will always be a DPS downgrade over just using the new paladin combos.

Which is a bit sad, because as I stated above, we already had little worthwhile options.

I guess at 60 I'll switch out Fracture for Mercy Stroke or Bloodbath.

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Originally Posted by Evaddaragon

Which is a bit sad, because as I stated above, we already had little worthwhile options.

I guess at 60 I'll switch out Fracture for Mercy Stroke or Bloodbath.

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Mercy and Bloodbath were two of our better options at 50......what did you have loaded instead?

I always figured Stoneskin, Mercy Stroke, Bloodbath, Foresight and Fracture were the only viable choices at 50.

Protect was worse than a whitemages and always taken by healers, Raise couldnt be used in combat and was useless in instances, Cure did so little healing with a paladin's Mind stat that it was only good for spot healing in level 1-20 fates (and if you had time to cast a "heal" you should have been casting stoneskin) and skull sunder did nothing.

Sure, Mercy stroke, Bloodbath and Foresight all had very limited effect compared to the much much stronger Paladin cooldowns, but all of them somewhat increased your damage and survivability at zero cost as you could pop them off GCD (I always figured Bloodbath was a much stronger "heal" to take than Cure because you can pop it every 90 seconds with FoF and just have it as a passive health tick. Cure needs you to spam a cast time heal where if you were under attack you'd take more damage than you healed up).

With Fracture now useless, and Clemency being a viable heal that should render Cure pointless, it feels like taking Protect is the only option for 60 now as it can be used to buff ressed people and is pretty nice to have access to solo.

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

I always figured Stoneskin, Mercy Stroke, Bloodbath, Foresight and Fracture were the only viable choices at 50.

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Yeah that's correct and nothing has changed.....besides fracture now being 100% useless.

I wonder why Cure doesn't calculate potency in the same way as Clemency. It could be potentially useful if it did. Anyone other than myself frustrated that a new heal is added when the previous heal is still broken?

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Originally Posted by Nusnam

I wonder why Cure doesn't calculate potency in the same way as Clemency. It could be potentially useful if it did. Anyone other than myself frustrated that a new heal is added when the previous heal is still broken?

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It's a design decision. They want Paladins to focus on fighting instead of casting heals, and Cure I is only really useful when being spammed. Clemency has a good series of tradeoffs that makes it sufficiently powerful while also discouraging you from casting it nonstop.

I only ever paired Fracture with Circle of Scorn. It burns too much TP and does too little on its own to be worth while. It doesn't even help maintain enmity before and after Shield Oath is applied.