Estinien in 3.0

So with Estinien as one of the WoL companions through out 3.0, with Lady Iceheart, Cid, Biggs, Wedge, and Alphinaud. Do you think he will survive 3.0 and beyond or be killed off like most important NPCs in MSQ?

Considering we will get more lore about Estinien in 3.0, as the Dragonsong trailer shows that we will have echo visions about his past, I hope they don't just kill him off as their excuse to remove him from the MSQ considering he still play his role in the Dragoon lvl 30 to 50 quest if players did not complete those quest yet plus I'm getting a bit tired of the "Killer this NPC to remove from MSQ" excuse thing SE keep playing out in MSQ.

I see you still like to post your own assumptions as fact.

Also, good job on the spoiler warning in title for anyone who may not have finished MSQ.

Dragonsong showed an Echo vision of a dragoon. We have no way of knowing it's Estinien. In fact that dragoon is wearing white drachen mail suggesting he's most likely someone else, quite possibly the very first dragoon.

only two npcs died for certain, i think the scions are all alive

spoilers /10 char

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Originally Posted by Rikkustrife

only two npcs died for certain, i think the scions are all alive

spoilers /10 char

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Nononono you don't understand they are ALL dead. You see anything the OP assumes is actually fact. MOST important NPCs are dead.

Spoilers. /10 char

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Originally Posted by Rikkustrife

only two npcs died for certain, i think the scions are all alive

spoilers /10 char

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I agree

they're probably all still alive because killing them off-screen would be pathetically anticlimactic, plus bringing back a "dead" character that you never saw die is an effective device for making a character look awesome.

spoilers /10 char

No. This is some Game of Thrones level sh*t now. No NPC is safe.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

Dragonsong showed an Echo vision of a dragoon. We have no way of knowing it's Estinien. In fact that dragoon is wearing white drachen mail suggesting he's most likely someone else, quite possibly the very first dragoon.

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While it dpends on if we know anyone who was even alive and there when the event happens. The Echo only show events of the past if the person or being was there and alive during the events that happened in the Echo vision in FF14ARR and that person or being must also be alive for the Echo to show us that Vision. Not to mention Estinien may have had his armor changed when he went rogue. NPCs are not bound by a law saying they must always wear the same armor in their past and future after all.

(Won't be surprised if the Scions are given new outfits to replace their old outfits when they decide to return in 3.0 or 3.X era considering Main Characters like Cid and Alphinaud are getting new outfits as well)

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Originally Posted by Selli

No. This is some Game of Thrones level sh*t now. No NPC is safe.

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Even GRRM doesn't kill characters just because. He's also never killed a major character off-page, and is the master of the "fake out" death.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

Even GRRM doesn't kill characters just because. He's also never killed a major character off-page, and is the master of the "fake out" death.

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You know the rule...

"If you did not see them die then they are most likely a live."

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Originally Posted by Rikkustrife

only two npcs died for certain, i think the scions are all alive

spoilers /10 char

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I never said anything about the "others" being dead.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

You know the rule...

"If you did not see them die then they are most likely a live."

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Except in comic books, where even if they die, they're probably not dead : )

Stuff here:

Since the Scions but like 3 are crap; I hope they DID die...But we all know they didn't because Minifilia probably did something. Plus they didn't really die THAT heroically.
I think our new crew of friends are very interesting.
Please kill off Scion's. I am tired of them and their near uselessness.
I do miss Moewnbryda...I wonder if Urianger will do something? But Idk...I loved her but bringing back people should just be that.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

You know the rule...

"If you did not see them die then they are most likely a live."



I never said anything about the "others" being dead.

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then who is most

since the only important npcs on our side that died are Nanamo, and Moenbryda?

Spoilers Doctor!

Even Moenbryda is questionable. There was no body, just a mortal wound and a flash of light, Louisioux style. One hypothesis I had was that Urianger getting involved in Ascians was because of Moenbryda. Maybe she's dead... maybe she's now an Ascian too.... maybe he made a deal with the devil to get her back. He did say he was going to grieve "in his own way."

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Originally Posted by Rikkustrife

then who is most

since the only important npcs on our side that died are Nanamo, and Moenbryda?

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Have you forgotten....

Moewnbryda, Louisoix, Gaius, and Nael

which are label as Major Characters but killed off through the storyline. While I do mention Antagonists, Antagonist's death is common in stories but not all the time the antagonist are forced into the Death excuse for being removed in the storyline.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

Spoilers Doctor!

Even Moenbryda is questionable. There was no body, just a mortal wound and a flash of light, Louisioux style. One hypothesis I had was that Urianger getting involved in Ascians was because of Moenbryda. Maybe she's dead... maybe she's now an Ascian too.... maybe he made a deal with the devil to get her back. He did say he was going to grieve "in his own way."

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Well that death is just the classic body breaking into Mana death scene some fantasy games tend to pull. Not much we can do about that when their physical bodies are broken into mana energy in front of the Main Character.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Stuff here:

Since the Scions but like 3 are crap; I hope they DID die...But we all know they didn't because Minifilia probably did something. Plus they didn't really die THAT heroically.
I think our new crew of friends are very interesting.
Please kill off Scion's. I am tired of them and their near uselessness.
I do miss Moewnbryda...I wonder if Urianger will do something? But Idk...I loved her but bringing back people should just be that.

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some spoilers mebbe

The fact that we haven't seen much from the scions, specifically the Sharlayans is precisely why they're not dead. Their stories have barely been told, and I'm actually excited to learn more about each of them, even if they have been a little boring so far.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Have you forgotten....

Moewnbryda, Louisoix, Gaius, and Nael

which are label as Major Characters but killed off through the storyline. While I do mention Antagonists, Antagonist's death is common in stories but not all the time the antagonist are forced into the Death excuse for being removed in the storyline.



Well that death is just the classic body breaking into Mana death scene some fantasy games tend to pull. Not much we can do about that when their physical bodies are broken into mana energy in front of the Main Character.

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I have not done coil, which is not part of the MSQ anyways, but I thought Nael was dead and the one we fight is an aether version.

I mentioned Moenbryda, and neither her nor Nanamo are removed from the story, their deaths serve a purpose in the storyline, and they will still be part of it even if not in it, though Moenbryda may come back.
Gaius' death was not to remove him from the story, he is the guy we stop from enslaving Eorzea.

So none of the death's were for the sake of removing them, they all serve a purpose in the story. Even Wilred's, and the sylph's death after the storyline Titan fight had purpose.

spoilers /10 char

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Originally Posted by Rikkustrife

I have not done coil, which is not part of the MSQ anyways, but I thought Nael was dead and the one we fight is an aether version.

I mentioned Moenbryda, and neither her nor Nanamo are removed from the story, their deaths serve a purpose in the storyline, and they will still be part of it even if not in it, though Moenbryda may come back.
Gaius' death was not to remove him from the story, he is the guy we stop from enslaving Eorzea.

So none of the death's were for the sake of removing them, they all serve a purpose in the story. Even Wilred's, and the sylph's death after the storyline Titan fight had purpose.

spoilers /10 char

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Being killed off, no matter how important to the storyline it is, still serves the purpose of removing a character from the storyline through death. It is only how the story treats their death that makes it important or not.

Not to mention if a character is killed off, there is a limit on how much the story will go back to a character's death before it becomes "beating a Dead Horse" issue so while certain Deaths may hold importance to future storyline it only remains important to that specific part of the storyline. After that point in the story, the character is slowly moved out of the story since it would become "beating a dead horse" issue if the story constantly reminds the player "this NPC is dead" every X.X storyline.

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Originally Posted by Rikkustrife

snip

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Nanamo was a "dead lala walking" the minute she appeared.
We have three city-states with three grand companies. 2/3 have a single leader with attendants.
The third has a military leader (Raubahn) and a cute, rather innocent but somewhat effective leader whose very existence is basically all that keeps the city from descending into chaos (Nanamo)
Just the fact that there ARE two leaders meant that one of them's days were numbered. The fact that more interesting stories would be told by Nanamo dying (the city descending into chaos and Raubahn going all Berserker on everyone's ass) than by Raubahn dying (a funeral, maybe a trial, and his son swearing revenge while in general the status quo remains) meant that her days were the ones that were specifically numbered.
So yeah rather than her death being for the sake of removing her, her death was clearly planned from the moment she entered the stage.
It's the same way we knew from her first appearance that Ysayle wasn't going to keel over and die when we "killed" Shiva: She's too unique (both in story and the fact that her model is unique, a la the GC leaders, Scions, and Nanamo) for a one-shot villain, and her continued existence creates more interesting story possibilities than killing her off.
Then there's the meta reason why none of the scions are dead: Dissidia for the PS4 is coming soon, and Y'shtola is a playable character.

le ten characters

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

Even GRRM doesn't kill characters just because. He's also never killed a major character off-page, and is the master of the "fake out" death.

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It was... a joke. .-.

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Originally Posted by Rikkustrife

I have not done coil, which is not part of the MSQ anyways, but I thought Nael was dead and the one we fight is an aether version.

I mentioned Moenbryda, and neither her nor Nanamo are removed from the story, their deaths serve a purpose in the storyline, and they will still be part of it even if not in it, though Moenbryda may come back.
Gaius' death was not to remove him from the story, he is the guy we stop from enslaving Eorzea.

So none of the death's were for the sake of removing them, they all serve a purpose in the story. Even Wilred's, and the sylph's death after the storyline Titan fight had purpose.

spoilers /10 char

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T9?

Kinda. Sorta. Its more a kind of half assed resurrection by Bahamut. That's the reason he is now a she. The soul and mind (though tempered till almost the end) are Neal, the body is a reconstruction in the appearance of probably an important memory.

For Estinien, we actually know a lot about his past already. I suspect that the echo visions we see come from a different source, perhaps even one of the dragons.

Hey, crazy thought. We see in ARR through Materia, Demimateria and the Relic quest, that soul energy becomes 'deposited' within tools, equipment and objects that people create or used a great deal over time. Perhaps we reach a new level of echo were we can actually tap into the residual soul energy in locations and objects to relive moments of importance from the past of the people who used them.


As for the others

deaths are generally narrative driven in the game. Wilred was to make it clear something was very wrong in the Crystal Braves and for those who remembered him, give a sense of tragedy. Nanamo was both to frame the character and to create a strong sense of outrage in the player towards the Monetarists (which worked very well). Moenbryda was to show that defeating a foe as powerful as the Ascians was going to be hard and costly. She disappears because she effectively turns into the Aether you use to slay Nabriales. She becomes your Blade of Light.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

For Estinien, we actually know a lot about his past already. I suspect that the echo visions we see come from a different source, perhaps even one of the dragons.

Hey, crazy thought. We see in ARR through Materia, Demimateria and the Relic quest, that soul energy becomes 'deposited' within tools, equipment and objects that people create or used a great deal over time. Perhaps we reach a new level of echo were we can actually tap into the residual soul energy in locations and objects to relive moments of importance from the past of the people who used them.

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May be but the Echo been crazy in FF14 history since 1.0 with how in 1.0 the Echo actually sent the WoL into the past of a place as long there are people in the present that is alive and was alive during that time.

Then there is FF14ARR Echo being that instead of sending the WoL into the past it only allows them to see visions of the past as long a person is alive and was alive during that time.

With how twisted and changing the Echo's power has been through out FF14, I won't be surprised if it starts to work on objects with a long history with a certain person.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

As for the others

deaths are generally narrative driven in the game. Wilred was to make it clear something was very wrong in the Crystal Braves and for those who remembered him, give a sense of tragedy. Nanamo was both to frame the character and to create a strong sense of outrage in the player towards the Monetarists (which worked very well). Moenbryda was to show that defeating a foe as powerful as the Ascians was going to be hard and costly. She disappears because she effectively turns into the Aether you use to slay Nabriales. She becomes your Blade of Light.

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Makes you wonder how many more Major NPCs must make that same choice before we finally defeat the Ascians.

However, I keep having this strange feeling the defeat of the Ascians and Zodiark will only lead to the rise of a new antagonist far more ancient.

or they may end up making a new storyline separate from the Ascian/Zodiark Saga.

Either way something is going to happen once the Ascians and Zodiark are defeated.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Echo

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The echo's power seems to be diminishing as of late.
In 1.0 it basically gave time travel.
In 2.55? It doesn't even bother to help you with the vial of poison fiasco when you meet the people directly involved with it, much less

Ilberd and the betraying Crystal Braves

There's an in-story reason given, at least...Hydaelyn's power seems to be diminishing, something Minfilia references several times.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

There's an in-story reason given, at least...Hydaelyn's power seems to be diminishing, something Minfilia references several times.

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I'm still betting that it has something to do with Ishgard in some way or at least something inside or below Ishgard causing it.

Every single hypothesis I have about her weakening points to Ishgard being part of the problem in some way but guess we will find out in 3.0.

Any other possible cause of her weakening I have as hypothesis points to the other Continents of FF14 world but that is for the future expansions.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

I'm still betting that it has something to do with Ishgard in some way or at least something inside or below Ishgard causing it.

Every single hypothesis I have about her weakening points to Ishgard being part of the problem in some way but guess we will find out in 3.0.

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It's the Ascians/Zodiark and the primals. It's mentioned that the primals "damage the land," which I take to mean as them diminishing hydaelyn because they draw from the same food source.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

It's the Ascians/Zodiark and the primals. It's mentioned that the primals "damage the land," which I take to mean as them diminishing hydaelyn because they draw from the same food source.

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That is only one of the causes.

With Ascians proviking constant conflict in the world and convincing certain beings to rely on Primals the Aether is being drained but Ascians have been hinting that there may be other means causing Hydaelyn to weaken beyond the Primals and Conflict in the World.

But we may find out in 3.0 if there are other things causing this or not.

There's a random npc in uldah stating that the scions have been captured. Meaning they are alive somewhere in Uldah

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

I agree

they're probably all still alive because killing them off-screen would be pathetically anticlimactic, plus bringing back a "dead" character that you never saw die is an effective device for making a character look awesome.

spoilers /10 char

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I dunno...

Considering how incredibly cliché they treated Moenbryda's death, I kind of do expect SE to pull something as anti-climatic as killing them off screen. Mind you, not having them come back and being confirmed dead would be less cliché and I'd go back to watching cutscenes again.