Death Vs. Defeat - Disintegration Effect?

The story has had moments where enemies have been defeated but didn't actually die. I know there's some suspense to the story in this, but it can be confusing as to whether Nero died or was just defeated (obviously he lived per Crystal Tower), similarly Gaius and even Livia pose some questions now whether we just defeated them or we killed them for good. Yes they fell to the ground, but are they dead?

In traditional Final Fantasy, the "flash-and-burn" or "disintegration" effect helped a player know that a boss was dead for good. It brought closure that otherwise wasn't there.

For sake of lore, can the developers please look into this effect to help us know for sure whether someone is dead for good or just lying there in agony? Maybe even some sort of "soul aether" being released and exploding.

For Nero you never see him dead, he runs away so there was no surprise, Livia and Gaius died for sure, only monsters disappear. Human bodies don't.

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Originally Posted by lololink

only monsters disappear. Human bodies don't.

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I tend to agree with this.

I think livia was killed as was rhytatin (sp? the roe general) as Gaius commented that he was 'slain'.

Not sure aboit Gaius... almost sure he survived somehow.

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Originally Posted by Shuon

I tend to agree with this.

I think livia was killed as was rhytatin (sp? the roe general) as Gaius commented that he was 'slain'.

Not sure aboit Gaius... almost sure he survived somehow.

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More than a few people do suspect that he's still alive out there somewhere. But yes, the other two are pretty much confirmed to be dead. Especially the Roe general, because I remember there being a line of dialog in regards to Gaius wondering if said general's men abandoned him and let him be killed because he wasn't a native Garlean.....

As far as Gaius goes, I've held to the idea lately that Gaius is actually Lahabrea's new host since he was kicked out of Thancred.

Supporting evidence being Lahabrea needed a new host and Gaius was literally there for the taking. Why waste a perfectly good body like Gaius when it was just going to die otherwise?

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

As far as Gaius goes, I've held to the idea lately that Gaius is actually Lahabrea's new host since he was kicked out of Thancred.

Supporting evidence being Lahabrea needed a new host and Gaius was literally there for the taking. Why waste a perfectly good body like Gaius when it was just going to die otherwise?

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Well, Lahabrea was totally obliterated by the Blade of Light at that time, so he'd have no time to take Gaius' body before the base blew up nor did Lahabrea had time to recover after the fact (we don't see him again until a few patches later). Even then, Gaius' body is probably mangled beyond belief since he was caught in the explosion, so it does the Ascian no good to posses a broken body.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Well, Lahabrea was totally obliterated by the Blade of Light, so he'd have no time to take Gaius' body before the base blew up. Even then, Gaius' body is probably mangled beyond belief since he was caught in the explosion, so it does the Ascian no good to posses a broken body.

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yeah, unless the 14th legion gets crazy and try to summon Gaius as a Primal I don't think we will see him back.

As many people have pointed out, Nero makes his escape after you defeat him and the lights flicker off for a few moments.

Livia, while unconfirmed to be dead, is inferred to be so by Cid.

Gaius had no exit, was heavily wounded, and was stuck in the exploding Praetorium; him not being dead would be a serious deus ex machina.

Enemy corpses dissolve / disappear partially due to engine limitations. Keeping every dead enemy rendered would crash even the most advanced graphics. It's also a means to keep the heroic fantasy intact; if corpses stuck around after death, it would make players feel bad about theyselves.

Not to mention it keeps with the FF tradition of "everything fades"

I feel like I should point out that we had several corpses to carry out of the waking sands - including our sylph friend - so people not disappearing and instead leaving a body when they die is perfectly normal. Plus, there's the cemetery in Eastern Thanalan.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Well, Lahabrea was totally obliterated by the Blade of Light at that time, so he'd have no time to take Gaius' body before the base blew up nor did Lahabrea had time to recover after the fact (we don't see him again until a few patches later). Even then, Gaius' body is probably mangled beyond belief since he was caught in the explosion, so it does the Ascian no good to posses a broken body.

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Hmm, not so sure. Lahabrea was cast out of Thancred but he was by no means destroyed. So then since he wasn't, who else is still there. Gaius. Lahabrea jacks him right before the place goes up and ports off to lick his wounds.

When it comes to The Ascians they ARE Deus Ex Machina.

When i say obliterated, I mean "got his butt completely wrecked" and we don't see him until a few patches later. Not to mention there's really no need to keep Gaius alive at this point when the Ascian's plans seem to be going as planned regardless other than them speeding it up because one of their other key players was actually killed.


And I know the Ascians have a plan for their plan, etc. But I believe they wouldn't be major ass pullers; if Giaus did return, I better see a REALLY good reason behind it other than "lol a wizard did it".

Hmmm, I guess you have a point. Gaius did fulfill his role in Lahabrea's plot. (Despite the plot failing) So there'd really be no reason for them to keep using him.

I guess I just want Gaius to be alive because of my personal bias towards him since he's now in my top 3 Final Fantasy Villains behind Caius Ballad and before Sephiroth.

Enemies that disappear out on the field and in dungeons do so to remove them from the scene so they no longer require rendering. This is common in all MMOs and isn't so much a lore device.

There are some enemies that disintegrate due to lore reasons though. The primals and voidsent both turn to aether when killed which is why they usually have a special death animation.

As for ambiguity regarding some major character deaths I would suspect that's entirely deliberate. Any story that gives you too many absolutes tends to get a little dull. Ambiguity is what gives rise to speculation in this very lore forum. I will say though that other than Gaius it was all rather explicit about who of the Garlean generals did and did not die; Nero's escape in particular was made very obvious.

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Originally Posted by Reinhart

I feel like I should point out that we had several corpses to carry out of the waking sands - including our sylph friend - so people not disappearing and instead leaving a body when they die is perfectly normal. Plus, there's the cemetery in Eastern Thanalan.

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I like how they made each corpse take up a unique cast time depending on how heavy they were. Really stuck it in there.

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Originally Posted by Reinhart

I feel like I should point out that we had several corpses to carry out of the waking sands - including our sylph friend - so people not disappearing and instead leaving a body when they die is perfectly normal. Plus, there's the cemetery in Eastern Thanalan.

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Well, as some have already pointed out, the fading thing is mostly to reduce the workload on the graphics engine (and most enemies serve no purpose after being killed, so there's no reason to make the engine work to keep them rendered), and Cilia made a good point in saying that leaving dead bodies lying around can make some players start to feel bad about themselves. So though we see the bodies disappear, the characters themselves probably do not.

So the bodies in the waking sands (or in any of the many other quests that require you to interact with dead bodies) were left unfading because they needed to be on screen for us to see and interact with.