Having gone through astrology terms before when making my own Astrologian Job idea, I remembered seeing some of the terms that came up as Astrologian spells/skills.
Their main heals, Benefic and Benefic II, refer to Benefic Planets, planets that give a positive influence to whatever zodiac sign crosses their path. Jupiter is the known as the Greater Benefic and Venus is the Lesser Benefic.
Their AoE heal, Helios, refers to a star at the center of a solar system or universe. It could also refer to just a sun.
Their Raise, Ascend, and Esuna, Detriment, refer to the positions celestial bodies can take to zodiac signs. Ascending is when a body is across from the sign it rules and strengthening it, while Detriment is when a body is across an opposing sign and weakening it.
Their instant heal spell, Dignity, refers to Essential Dignity, which is the strength or weakness a planet, star, or zodiac sign has based on their position.
Synastry refers to a Synastry chart, which compares two peoples star charts.
These skills could potentially be telling use a few things:
1) Their could be other planets other then Hydaelyn in the world of XIV.
2) The solar system Hydaelyn is in could be similar to ours, where it and the other planets rotate around a sun.
3) Ishgard could have a zodiac system similar to how we pick one of the twelve as our guardian during character creation.
What are your guys' thoughts? >o>
Astrologians: What They Could Be Telling Us
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06-05-2015, 12:04 PMMimiluAstrologians: What They Could Be Telling Us
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06-05-2015, 01:24 PMIsklexi
No love for syzygy? (best scrabble play ever)
The structure of the solar system is unlikely to have a huge impact on the story (unless we start planet hopping).
Zodiarc and the Ivalice espers (and by extension the Ascians) already reference the zodiac directly. I'm not sure how many more astrology references they can squeeze in. -
06-05-2015, 01:38 PMSamcaesar
I wonder how different Ishgardian Astologians (The ones we currently see) and Sharlayan Astrologians (What the job will be).
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06-05-2015, 02:13 PMCilia
The Ishgardian Astrologians aren't Astrologian Astrologians, they're just astrologers. They can't use magic derived from celestial phenomena like the Sharlayans.
Don't know if there's any other planets in the solar system. Maybe. Is the sky just the aetheric sea? Someone set me up a telescope in Revenant's Toll! -
06-05-2015, 02:14 PMMimiluI had thought about the Ivalice Espers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isklexi
I wonder if the Ishgarian Zodiac would also reflect on it or be something different?
It could explain why the Ascians are with the Holy See IF their espers have a connection to them.
I haven't heard anything about Sharlayan Astrologians but now I'm curious. >3>Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
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06-05-2015, 02:20 PMMimiluThat's what I was wondering: Where is Hydaelyn? I thought it was in the aetheric sea too but with stars and other celestial bodies, could it be similar to our space?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
Also, how has no one ever thought to go up there or send a prob to see? Is there no aether past a certain point? Is there an Ozone layer keeping the aether in?
I want to know about space. *A*
Also, how does the Ishgardian Astrologian's magic work if it isn't derived from celestial phenomena? Trajectory and calculation like the Arcanist? -
06-05-2015, 02:27 PMSamcaesarThe Astologians you see in the Observatory in Coerthas are Ishgardian :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Mimilu
http://i.imgur.com/NjlIV23.png This, the Job, is Sharlayan in origin, and while we haven't seen any of them currently in game, we might with Heavensward.
I dunno if they can't use magic, they might not use it in combat orientated ways like the Sharlayan Astologian, but they did end up predicting several things like Midgarsormr rising from his death, didn't they? -
06-05-2015, 02:36 PMCiliaDon't know, exactly. Very little scientific investigation has been made into anything not concerning the field of aether.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimilu
We don't know much about space because we lack the technology to go beyond the atmosphere. There's no rockets and such, just airships. While it's not unthinkable for airships to go into space (since they functionally achieve lift through anti-gravity magic), they still have a vague maximum altitude as can be inferred by the Ixal Beast Tribe quests being the construction of an airship designed to go higher than the clouds. We'd need an oxygen supply as well.
Maybe the Garleans could do it, but Eorzea just doesn't have the tech savvy to go into space.
Either way, I'm running on the assumption that the sky itself is the aetheric sea (aether is another term for a classical element often referring to the sky / heavens). It's what separates us from the realm of the Gods... pretty fitting for a mythological world. Considering the Astrologians are able to divine the future from celestial movements, there might be other celestial bodies... but they could just be projections on the aetheric sea, not really anything outside the planet. Same could be true of the sun; we just don't know.
Don't know if Ishgardian Astrologians fight at all; they can't use the magic Sharlayan Astrologians can, though. They're just astrologers, the real-world equivalent of which is basically just horoscope writers these days. (Though, to be fair, their predictions have a better track record than modern-day astrologers, but that's prolly just cuz of magic.)
EDIT
Wait, wait... Dalamud was out in space, and the Crystal Tower is known to collect solar energy. So we do know space and at least a sun exist.
Damn you for setting us back aeons of scientific and technological advancement, Xande! -
06-05-2015, 02:47 PMWyrahFhurrst
If we're talking about what celestial bodies are in the Azeyma System perhaps we can look toward traditional astrology as a sign? I assume the sun is named after its goddess just as the moon is named after its, and that would mean the whole system is named after the sun it revolves around, Azeyma. From there perhaps we can conclude that other planets are named after some of the other Twelve, just as the planets in our solar system are named after Greek gods. I know that the constellations are all different on Hydaelyn, and Astrologian's cards are named after them, so it's likely that we'll get to learn about them, which is exciting.
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06-05-2015, 03:52 PMGrayveWe do know they can't use AST magic, at least, Fern posted about that when explaining why they names are the same... its like the Titan/Tietan thing, all over again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
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06-05-2015, 04:37 PMSamcaesarAh, interesting, though I'm not aware of the this Titan/Tietan thing you're talking about. Maybe Ishgardian Astologian focuses more on future and using space for divining techniques while Sharlayan technique uses the surrounding Aether in a referential way to spacial bodies?Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayve
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06-05-2015, 04:40 PMEloahThe Ishgard zodiac system is the twelve, they are a part of Eorzea and worship Halone. All of the city states in Eorzea worship the twelve, only foreigners, like the Au Ra, might not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimilu
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06-05-2015, 05:10 PMlololinkIshgardians watch the stars to predict the future while the shqrlayans seem to harness the power of the stars. For Titan it's an issue from FF3, there are two things you can call titan from grec myths, one is pronounced Taitan ( the summon ) and the other is Teetan ( phlegethon / acheron in this game )Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
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06-05-2015, 10:30 PMMimiluExactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
The Allagan were able to send Dalamud, which is huge, into space.
I don't see why someone like Cid couldn't make at least a small probe with its own reserve-tank of aether and launch it to space.
But a zodiac system works based on when the constellations are visibility due to the planet's rotation on its own axis and its rotation around a sun, versus when we pick our Guardian, which is our own choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloah
Maybe if what WyrahFhurrst said about other planets being named after the twelve was accurate, this could work. -
06-05-2015, 10:37 PMIsklexi
Even if we do have a planetary system for astrology to be based on, we can't assume anything about it since this is a fantasy setting. This world could have a geocentric model and unique laws of gravitation (or ignore gravity all together). Retrograde motion could literally happen as opposed to being just an optical illusion.
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06-05-2015, 10:54 PMMimiluWe have to assume that some force similar to gravity is at work preventing us from floating away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isklexi
In most works of fiction (like fantasy and sci-fi), in a world that has different scientific properties the ours', it's safe to assume that any principle they don't cover is similar to ours' (like gravity). -
06-05-2015, 11:10 PMCiliaThe end boss of the Labyrinth of the Ancients is named "Titan" in Japanese, as a reference to the same endboss of the same dungeon in FFIII. It's spelled differently than the Primal "Titan," though, because katakana (I believe it's katakana; I know next to nothing about Japanese language) uses phonetic spelling, rending his name something more like "Tietan." Essentially they're able to get away with using the same name for two different characters thanks to phonemes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samcaesar
Since English and most other supported languages don't do this, they renamed the LoA endboss "Acheron" as a reference to the palette-swapped version of FFIII Titan who appeared up in Syrcus Tower. Then when it was time to actually climb Syrcus Tower, lo and behold... mobs named Acheron were up there. So they had to change the LoA endboss' name again to Phlegethon. They ran into a similar hiccup with Ishgard's "astrologians." They're really just astrologers, divining the future though celestial movements. They don't have the magical capabilities of the Sharlayan Astrologians.
The Allagans sent Dalamud into space, but we don't have their technological advancement (and, by Cid's own admission, maybe never will).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimilu
Aether would probably not be a good fuel source, since it's gaseous (we think). Ceruleum might work better, but we don't know if it can function as rocket fuel and even if it can whether or not it's of a high enough grade to send a probe into space.
Either way, I don't recall video communication being available with the present technology. The Garleans have audio, and so do we though linkpearls, but even if we were able to shoot a probe into space all it would do is confirm the existence of space... which we already know exists. We also don't have the tech to send things into space; the Ixal Beastman Quests are the development of an airship that can fly higher than the clouds, so until the end of that line we can't even break the cloud ceiling. Maybe.
The world might have a geocentric model. This is a definite possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isklexi
However gravity certainly exists, probably with a similar strength to Earth's. When you jump you fall, do you not? We can't get precise measurements to determine the gravity constant, but... -
06-05-2015, 11:42 PMGrayve
I see Cilia explained it better then I could while I was off sleeping. Damn sleep, such a waste of time. Oh well. Thanks Cilia
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06-06-2015, 11:05 AMEloahA Zodiac System doesn't have to rely on constellations, just look at the Chinese Zodiac. The "Zodiac System" in Ishgard IS the Twelve, that's what we've been told all along. Us picking our Guardian is the same things as those of us in real life being born under a certain sign. Each Race/Tribe has a guardian, just like each Town does, and for Ishgard it's Halone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimilu
Now if the stars have any other meaning is unknown, but based on the knowledge we do have, there is no other Zodiac System, since all of Eorzea shares the same one, The Twelve. -
06-06-2015, 01:29 PMMimiluWhen did they say that the Twelve are the Ishgardian Zodiac Signs? >o>Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloah
To me, our Guardian being our Zodiac Sign doesn't make sense because there is no valid way to determine one's Guardian except faith, versus an actual Zodiac System where it is determined based on when you were born (both Western and Chinese Zodiac).
Maybe this could work if they changed it in 3.0 so that your Nameday will reflect which guardian you get. The Twelve are already associated with months in the Eorzean calender. -
06-07-2015, 07:44 AMEloahThe game indicates it in the beginning and the lore. There are 12 months 6 astral, 6 umbral and each one of the twelve is aligned to each month, that shows what deity or "zodiac" we are born under. Then there is the member of the twelve that we worship, the one you choose in the beginning. And the final deity is the one we pray to for the well being of our home/city-state/tribe, like Nald'Thal for Ul'dah, Nophica for Gridania, Rhalgr for Ala Mhigo, Llymlaen for Limsa Lominsa, Oschon for Nym, Thaliak for Sharlayan, Azeyma and Menphina for the Miqo'te Tribes, and finally Halone for Ishgard; where Nymeia, Byregot, and Althyk fall I don't know, though there descriptions indicate that they are gods of resources and not specific to one person.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimilu
So the way this works, taking my information into account: I was "born" on the 2nd Sun of the 5th Astral Moon, so I was "born" under the watch of Azeyma, I am aligned or come from Gridania, so I pray to Nophica, and I personally worship Menphina as my guardian.
And using your info: You were "born" on the 6th Sun of the 6th Umbral Moon, so you were "born" under the watch of Althyk, you are aligned or come from Gridania, so you pray to Nophica, and you personally Worship Oschon as your guardian.
I hope that helps explain it a little better. There is a Zodiac System in place it's just different from the way we might think a zodiac system would work. Truthfully, I wish I knew the system better when I started as I might of chosen a different combination of deities. But, I don't think we are supposed to know going in, because like the actual zodiac, in the west or east, it's all random. -
06-07-2015, 08:39 AMMimiluThis really did help. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Eloah
It's kind of similar to what some people who do with the Chinese Zodiac with year (what you're born under), month (your inner animal), day (your true animal), and hour (secret animal). -
06-07-2015, 09:38 AMEloahExactly, and see, I learned something new too. Now I wanna find out what other animals I am, lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Mimilu
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06-08-2015, 11:38 PMIsklexiThis world appears to have gravity similar to our own. We only have experience with this worlds gravitation near the surface of a sizable massive object (the planet). We don't know how it would behave at greater distances or with varying sizes of objects. That's why I brought up the concept of retrograde motion (a defunct hypothesis based on the geocentric model). For all we know, gravity in FFXIV could be a function of Aether and be significantly weaker in space (or other places with low levels of Aether).Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
Edit: with Ishgard's floating islands, we may learn more about this world's gravity soon. -
06-14-2015, 01:09 AMBalipuWell I would guess that floating islands float via magic and have nothing to do with gravity. As for space: Yoshie-P did mention that he would like the game to explore the moon at some point as FFIV did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isklexi
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06-17-2015, 05:10 AMaxemtitanium
Until very recently, we didn't even know if the planet was flat or spherical. I don't think real world laws of physics need to be or should be assumed as a given unless proven otherwise. It's part of world-building.
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06-27-2015, 02:41 PMMimiluI know this is kind of necroing a thread but in the beginning of the Astrologian quest, Jannequinard does say that Hydaelyn is a sphere that rotates on an axis.Quote:
Originally Posted by axemtitanium