Which cross class abilities should i get for Machinist?

So im tired of maining the black sheep job (SMN), so im going to main machinist instead, but which cross class abilities should I get come expansion?

Lancer:
Feint
Keen Flurry
Invigorate
Blood for Blood

Archer:
Raging Strikes
Hawk's Eye
Quelling Strikes

Pretty much all the damage ones?

Invigorate, Raging Strikes, Hawk's Eye, Quelling Strikes and Blood for Blood.

Get whatever Bardgets from cross class, and pick up Raging Strikes while your at it.

I imagine my opinion is gonna be a less popular one, but I'd honestly consider Keen Flurry above Quelling Strikes. On BRD, I can count the number of times QS has been useful on one hand, KF on the other hand has saved me from certain death quite a few times. Of course, if MCN's enmity output ends up being higher than BRD's, QS may be more useful. Who knows?

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Originally Posted by Zophar

I imagine my opinion is gonna be a less popular one, but I'd honestly consider Keen Flurry above Quelling Strikes. On BRD, I can count the number of times QS has been useful on one hand, KF on the other hand has saved me from certain death quite a few times. Of course, if MCN's enmity output ends up being higher than BRD's, QS may be more useful. Who knows?

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Since it'll also have some degree of support role, I imagine it'll have very similar enmity output to BRD. It might burst faster/harder, but we'll see.

QS is always useful for bard...

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Originally Posted by Hustensaft

Invigorate, Raging Strikes, Hawk's Eye, Quelling Strikes and Blood for Blood.

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I haven't been looking that hard at Machinists (info overload on so much already).. but seeing these 5 X-class abilties..

Is perfect synergy.

Much like.

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QS is always useful for bard...

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qft. Those starts when tanks are barely 3 GCDs into the pull and BRDs have already unloaded all them CDs and oGCDs

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Originally Posted by Zophar

I imagine my opinion is gonna be a less popular one, but I'd honestly consider Keen Flurry above Quelling Strikes. On BRD, I can count the number of times QS has been useful on one hand, KF on the other hand has saved me from certain death quite a few times. Of course, if MCN's enmity output ends up being higher than BRD's, QS may be more useful. Who knows?

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The main use of Quelling on BRD (and BLM) is for a WAR doing a proper pull (not some 123 > 123 bologna) or a Sword Oath PLD pulling.

Just edited my prior post and saw ^

Yea it's about the pulls.. Also Trials/Raids where there are adds and mechanics that require positioning/repositioning. Tanks can't generate much hate on the move but that's valuable time where Ranged could have been dpsing freely with a little QS magic. Garuda Ex Chirada/Suprana/Spiney plum phase comes to mind.

Well, as I said, it's my own opinion, based on my own experiences, but, then again, 95% of the time I run content with tanks I know, and can go as hardcore as I want without issue, without any need for QS. And I don't like to consider it as a useful tool on things like, as noted above, Garuda EX, as adds/spiny spawn far more often than you have QS available, so I mean really, it's just a precaution that you can use once, -maybe- twice throughout the fight. I don't think it's the wrong choice, just that I personally find KF a tad more useful.

If you wanna start dpsing as soon as the tomahawk/shield lob lands you better have QS on, good tank or not :o

A proper pulling tank I won't need QS at all. All others I can sit in the corner for 30s because even QS won't do much. And I don't preload(used to though). I weave them in so by the time I hit BL and then dots tank should have 2-3gcds done. But why limit only to 5? I mean we are getting another 10 levels so I assume another cross class slot as well.

And yes I used to run with featherfoot and keen flurry on bard. Saved me more than once - and even tanked a few things. I still carry keen flurry but dropped featherfoot for b4b.

By the way do we know Machinists main stat yet?

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Originally Posted by OmegaStrongtan

By the way do we know Machinists main stat yet?

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Confirmed DEX, and it is confirmed it will share gear with BRD.

Feint because someone's gotta use it and keen flurry so you can pull whenever you want and have a "defensive cooldown" to pop while the tank pulls aggro back from you.

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Originally Posted by SwarleyMcSwarls

Feint because someone's gotta use it and keen flurry so you can pull whenever you want and have a "defensive cooldown" to pop while the tank pulls aggro back from you.

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Or, you can use Keen Flurry in, say, final coil, when you have a Phoenix Pinion charging at you, or during Bahamut's Earth Shaker. You know, just to help your healer out a little?

I'm thinking:

Blood for Blood
Invigorate
Raging Strikes
Quelling Strikes
Hawk's Eye

I will definitely miss Second Wind because I always crossclass that, but with any luck we'll get another crossclass slot at level 60.

You know, I totally forgot this was a cross class since the only jobs that can cross class arc are smn and blm, and they don't get access to physical weapon skills, but has everyone else also forgotten that Straight Shot is cross classable? I am now very much looking at b4b, invig, RS, HE and SS.

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Originally Posted by Zophar

You know, I totally forgot this was a cross class since the only jobs that can cross class arc are smn and blm, and they don't get access to physical weapon skills, but has everyone else also forgotten that Straight Shot is cross classable? I am now very much looking at b4b, invig, RS, HE and SS.

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Wow, completely missed that one. Taking that instead of Quelling Strikes and then adding QS at 60, then.

im pretty certain they said we arent getting more cross class slots

Please note straight shot may not actually be cross classable - it is only usable by base classes (DoW classes for that matter), not jobs (excluding bard).

It may be that Mechanist can get it, but I'm not sure.

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Originally Posted by Zophar

You know, I totally forgot this was a cross class since the only jobs that can cross class arc are smn and blm, and they don't get access to physical weapon skills, but has everyone else also forgotten that Straight Shot is cross classable? I am now very much looking at b4b, invig, RS, HE and SS.

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SS is only for GLA/ PGL/ MRD/ LNC/ ARC/ ROG/ BRD

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

SS is only for GLA/ PGL/ MRD/ LNC/ ARC/ ROG/ BRD

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Well golly skippy.
Raging Strikes, Quelling Strikes, Hawk's Eye are GLA, PGL, MRD, LNC, ARC, ROG, CNJ, THM, ACN, BRD, BLM, SMN.
Invigorate and Blood for Blood are GLA,PGL,MRD,LNC,ARC,ROG,CNJ,THM,ACN,MNK,DRG,BRD,NIN.

By your logic it looks like MCN is just hosed out of all cross class abilities. Does this sound stupid to you? God I hope so.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Please note straight shot may not actually be cross classable - it is only usable by base classes (DoW classes for that matter), not jobs (excluding bard).

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That is because the only "jobs" that cross classed arc up til now have been casters. No caster has access to ANY physical attack cross abilities(except for Mercy Stroke for some odd reason).

Inversely, SS is crossable by EVERY single physical attacker, excluding jobs, because, as mentioned, no physical job can cross ANYTHING from arc

It's already been confirmed somewhere (I think) that machinists will crossclass from LNC and ARC. It should be the first job to get SS, it'd make sense.

Could be! However SS isn't necessarily a dps increase, if you consider the low base potency, and that +10% crit is only a +5% dps increase at best.

Roughly break even point with zero SS and zero crit is 230 avg potency/attack.

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Originally Posted by Zophar

snips.

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So by your logic Monk and Dragoon should have Goad and Death blossom. Think about that.

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

So by your logic Monk and Dragoon should have Goad and Death blossom. Think about that.

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Your logic remains super flawed. DRG and MNK can not cross class from ROG. No "job" can. If ROG was usable by either of those jobs, then yes. I am 100% certain they would have both abilities. Do you even understand how cross classing works? Seriously, I don't even know if you completely understand what you're arguing.

Very well, let me get my argument hat on.

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Originally Posted by Zophar

You know, I totally forgot this was a cross class since the only jobs that can cross class arc are smn and blm, and they don't get access to physical weapon skills, but has everyone else also forgotten that Straight Shot is cross classable? I am now very much looking at b4b, invig, RS, HE and SS.

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So, Straight shot what does it do?

Delivers an attack with a potency of 140. Additional Effect: Increases critical hit rate by 10% for 20s.

So it's pretty good, but I don't think it's going to be utilize very much do to the reload mechanic around MCN if they do get it. Also by your logic MCN is getting venomous bite as well, but with out its trait it's useless.

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Originally Posted by Zophar

By your logic it looks like MCN is just hosed out of all cross class abilities. Does this sound stupid to you? God I hope so.

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There are simpler ways of getting your point across without acting like you don't have no home training.

Do we even know if any of the class skills will be cross classeable on the new jobs?
Just curious and really have not read much about it.
If so Raging Strikes, Quelling Strikes (maybe), invigorate, blood for blood and maybe Mantra?

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

*classic misdirection*

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Dude, that's not even what you've been arguing. You've been arguing that MCN WILL NOT get the ability at all because so far it's been an ability that no job can use. You then followed it up with an argument that because 2 jobs can't use abilities, from a class they have 0 access to anyway, somehow invalidates my argument. Don't go trying to shift the focus of your stance to distract from your own ignorance. If you'd made this argument to start with, rather than your previous 2 idiotic arguments, I'd have actually had a very different tone. Yes. VB as a cross class would be useless. SS, may or may not be a good thing to use with the rest of MCN's abilities, but we have no way of knowing until we try.

And as for your your closing point, I find faulty logic incredibly offensive, and I do not apologize for that.

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Originally Posted by Zophar

Dude, that's not even what you've been arguing.

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Thats because I haven't been arguing. I seen your post and was like " that's weird," and decide to post the current classes that can use them. If anything it backed up your argument, but your the one that turned it into an argument acting like you needed attention. So im done, I don't deal with children.

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

Thats because I haven't been arguing. I seen your post and was like " that's weird," and decide to post the current classes that can use them. If anything it backed up your argument, but your the one that turned it into an argument acting like you needed attention. So im done, I don't deal with children.

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Sounds good. Thanks for playing.

Hum, like I stated before, SS usage will break even at 230+ avg potency/sec, possibly lower depending on how much base crit you have.

Looking back at my old sims, it seems most DoW classes peak out around 201-220 potency/sec (including AA), which means that if SS is available to Machinist, then it will be worthwhile to use in your rotation, barring any timing issues (like buff timers etc). It will definitely be useful prior to cooldown usage and any burst period, but very likely not worthwhile during the cooldown period.

Of course, iirc most DoW classes are getting significant buffs/stance changes that will increase their avg potency/sec, to the point where SS may no longer be useful.

Oh well though, because if it is, it would mark the first time that a cross class ability becomes a core rotational ability.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Hum

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Yea, hopefully we're getting SS, but you have to remember Smn did have Thunder 1 for a time. If SS is too good then SE might remove it from the CC list.

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

Yea, hopefully we're getting SS, but you have to remember Smn did have Thunder 1 for a time. If SS is too good then SE might remove it from the CC list.

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Its gonna be like a 2-4% dps increase at most. Which I guess thunder was as well. Shrug.

my guess is mcn wont get ss due to it's own temporary "damage up" and "guaranteed crit" abilities. such as the information we have stands, we can only really speculate. we'll know at the end of next week for sure, obviously. personally, as someone who's going to main mcn, i'd prefer not to have to use straight shot.

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Originally Posted by Tsilyi

my guess is mcn wont get ss due to it's own temporary "damage up" and "guaranteed crit" abilities.

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I would disagree with this assessment, unless they plan on removing it as a cross class ability all together, as they did with thunder, but I don't see it as being game breaking enough to do that. Up to this point, they have never excluded a class/job from a CC ability, that other similar classes/jobs have access too. The only criteria I've seen is that magical classes/jobs, do not get to have physical offensive abilities, such as Skull Sunder, Savage Blade, Straight Shot, Feint, and Haymaker. Mercy Stroke is an exception, but maybe it's because the move itself doesn't seem to utilize your weapon? Idk. And likewise, Physical classes/jobs don't get magical offensive abilities, such as Aero, Blizzard II, and Ruin. Unless I have completely overlooked something, no cross class ability, up to this point, has ever fallen outside the above criteria.

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Originally Posted by lyndwyrm

Since it'll also have some degree of support role, I imagine it'll have very similar enmity output to BRD. It might burst faster/harder, but we'll see.

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Since MCH will have the turrets I think that they will have very similar enmity output to SMN