With Fire IV coming along...what happens to Flare?

Can we turn it into Gigaflare? Already a thing? How about Shadow Flare...no that's already in the game...Hmm...Flare Star?

With a new nuke spell incoming, I somehow doubt Flare will be worth the trouble of requiring a convert to make use of. Also, i always thought it was one of the coolest looking abilities in the game, but Fire IV clearly looks way stronger. It's been dethroned.

Or, maybe we can get a trait that removes the 100% MP consumption aspect off it? Or at least increases its potency by a bit...?

I dunno.

Its not definite that Fire IV will be AoE for starters :/

And Flare can be used outside Enochain.

You can still cast Flare when you don't have enough mana for F4 anymore. Flare usage may or may not get shifted to AoE only.

We do not know for certain F4 is 260 potency like Flare. Doing some cross-referencing on other skills in the video, I've determined the range on F4 is anywhere from 250-270 (275 not possible based on min/maxes of some of the cross references). It could very easily be 250, do not assume it is 260 for sure.

Regardless, as mentioned above, F4 is not going to be an AoE, and Flare is cheaper to cast. Basically, Flare is going to stay in the exact same role as you'd use it now, IE finisher in your RS combo, fight finisher, and for AoE. The only thing F4 is semi-replacing is F1.

You can't cast any other fire-based spell but Flare with less than 300 MP in AF3 ;)

We'll know how it works when Heavensward is out. Right now we're not even sure how Enochain works. At the very least, Flare will still be more useful than Freeze ever was.

Please look forward to it!

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Originally Posted by alphamax112

You can't cast any other fire-based spell but Flare with less than 300 MP in AF3 ;)

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I imagine that the cost of Flare will increase with our level like every other spell. It would be nice if they'd show us though instead of having to figure it out. I recall Yoshi's BLM had like 11,000+ mp at level 60. Stats are apparently about to go crazy.

Also, like others said, I don't expect that fire IV will be aoe, so it's a fire I replacement for many casts while under the effect of Enochain. Worth noting though that it doesn't replace fire 1 entirely since you'd need to weave in one of those here and there to maintain AF3 (unless fire IV is so expensive that you expend all of your mp in those 10 seconds).

Based on the way that SE has done a good job of keeping casts of spells useful/situational unlike straight upgrades in FFXI - I'm sure that Fire IV will be different from I/II/III/Flare in an important way.

We need Burst to round out our trio of ancient magic :)

It reads as though it is a definite augmentation to your rotation, rather than intending to be a replacement for existing spells. I doubt as awesome and useful as Flare has proven to be, that it will be any less at 60 when we have our new ability sets with Fire/Blizzard IV. Flare may still have a place, even while under the buff granting those level VI spells. We'll just have to see when we get to level 60.

Secondly, it's Enochian.

Flare will require a minimum 884 MP to cast at 60, Fire IV will be 1768 MP at 60

Flare is 1.6x GCD, Fire IV is 1.2x GCD

Flare is AoE, Fire IV is not

Other than the ST damage being very close, they are very different spells, for very different uses.

Oh, you have official confirmation Fire IV is not an AOE?

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Oh, you have official confirmation Fire IV is not an AOE?

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There is no way it's AoE. The potency is roughly the same as flare and isn't that high a MP, which means it can be spammed. That'd be like quadruple flaring. That's be insanely OP

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Oh, you have official confirmation Fire IV is not an AOE?

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So you think it's another Fire II, same cast time, 2.5x the potency, 2/3 the MP cost?

Do you have any reason whatsoever to think it's AoE?

Did I say I think it's another Fire II? Don't put words in my mouth. I just asked if someone here has official knowledge that it is or is not an AOE?

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Did I say I think it's another Fire II? Don't put words in my mouth. I just asked if someone here has official knowledge that it is or is not an AOE?

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You asked a question in a smart ass manner implying that it was.

If Fire IV was AoE, it would more than double our AoE rotation damage, and BLM already blows everyone else out of the water. If it were AoE, the design of Enocian means that we should expect AoE content that takes well over a minute to destroy, unless you don't have a BLM, in which case it takes half an hour.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

You asked a question in a smart ass manner implying that it was.

If Fire IV was AoE, it would more than double our AoE rotation damage, and BLM already blows everyone else out of the water. If it were AoE, the design of Enocian means that we should expect AoE content that takes well over a minute to destroy, unless you don't have a BLM, in which case it takes half an hour.

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You don't know me, therefore you have absolutely no idea to what manner my question was meant to convey. That was an assumption on your part.

Good day to you.

They are right though. Imagine being able to Flare 4 times without convert and transposing. Mixing Flares and Fire 4's, you can potentially end up with SEVEN FLARES-TYPE spells (convert, Mega-Ethers). Seven Flares? You kidding me? What trash can survive 7 flares, ESPECIALLY if they are used in conjunction with Foe's Requiem or partially with Raging Strikes. Even without Convert and Ethers, you'd get 5 flares in a single rotation. 2 BLMing dungeons would be resemblant of old-school Brayflox; clearing full dungeons in 10 minutes if not less. It's only logical to assume that it isn't AoE.

It'd be cool if Fire 4 had a 20% chance of inflicting Burn on the enemy, but AoE is something you can rule against.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Flare will require a minimum 884 MP to cast at 60, Fire IV will be 1768 MP at 60

Flare is 1.6x GCD, Fire IV is 1.2x GCD

Flare is AoE, Fire IV is not

Other than the ST damage being very close, they are very different spells, for very different uses.

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Sorry if this is a really stupid question, it's late and my brain is only working @ 50%, but I just can't seem to figure out what you mean with the 1.6x and 1.2x, please explain ;D

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Originally Posted by Pyroclastic

Sorry if this is a really stupid question, it's late and my brain is only working @ 50%, but I just can't seem to figure out what you mean with the 1.6x and 1.2x, please explain ;D

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I was referring to the cast time of the spells in relation to the GCD time.

Base GCD is 2.5 seconds. Base Flare is 4.0 seconds, 1.6 times the GCD. Base Fire IV is 3.0 seconds, 1.2 times the GCD.

Cast time decreases in proportion to your GCD with spell speed.

All I have to say is, Fire IV shortens Enochian, so I don't expect it to be spammed very much.

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Originally Posted by Bloody

All I have to say is, Fire IV shortens Enochian, so I don't expect it to be spammed very much.

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No it doesn't. Fire IV has no effect on Enochian.

Nvm, it doesn't. But I do expect Eno to be short-lived if you don't work to maintain it.

A minute or slightly over doesn't seem too unrealistic.

Due to Enochian's reduced duration every Blizzard IV, I don't expect it will be optimal to refresh it's duration more than twice. Maybe 3 at a push, then you would just let it fall off and go back to the "2.0 rotation" while waiting for the recast.

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

Due to Enochian's reduced duration every Blizzard IV, I don't expect it will be optimal to refresh it's duration more than twice. Maybe 3 at a push, then you would just let it fall off and go back to the "2.0 rotation" while waiting for the recast.

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To be fair, if you refresh it 3 times, it lasts 30+25+20+15=90 seconds, as long as the 90 second recast anyway. That said, you'll clip a second or two off of each refresh, and I suspect that you are right and refreshing more than twice is not likely to be useful (after the second refresh you are cutting your fire phases super short anyway).

Don't forget that Fire IV (and Blizzard IV for that matters) do not refresh astral/Umbral stacks. In short, you may use only one, 2 max every stack refresh.

Also, on the subject of Enochian's refresh, I'm not sure it's worth sacrificing your astral dps by forcingly going into Umbral III to refresh a 3rd time. We will only know for sure when Heavensward lands, but I think Ley Lines may already be required at some point into the rotation to burn MPs before Enochian falls off in order not to lose dps by going early in Umbral stance.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Don't forget that Fire IV (and Blizzard IV for that matters) do not refresh astral/Umbral stacks. In short, you may use only one, 2 max every stack refresh.

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Not quite. With Leylines/Selene you can do 3 F4s in a row into F1, or if you have a Firestarter ready, or if you are at the end of your rotation and as long as you are in AH3 when you press B3 it has the effect you want.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Not quite. With Leylines/Selene you can do 3 F4s in a row into F1, or if you have a Firestarter ready, or if you are at the end of your rotation and as long as you are in AH3 when you press B3 it has the effect you want.

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Oh yeah I was considering a "normal" situation, like F3 => Eno => F4 off the bat. F1 will not disappear magically because F4 appears.
Also, MP costs might enter in consideration in the theorycrafting to determine if it's worth to throw more than a couple F4 in the rotation or not. You don't want to end a few MPs short for B3, do you ? ;)

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Oh yeah I was considering a "normal" situation, like F3 => Eno => F4 off the bat. F1 will not disappear magically because F4 appears.
Also, MP costs might enter in consideration in the theorycrafting to determine if it's worth to throw more than a couple F4 in the rotation or not. You don't want to end a few MPs short for B3, do you ? ;)

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Fire IV costs less than Fire I (but not a lot less), so you can a Sharpcast F1>F4>F4>F3>F4>F4>B3>B4. If Sharpcast isn't up and you don't get a Firestarter from the F1, replace the F3 with another F1 and drop the last F4. MP likely won't be an issue.