On the subject of FCoB farms and greed parties.

Warning, long post(s) ahead. Putting the tl;dr at the top:

tl;dr: Why are Need > Greed FCoB parties the norm on Phoenix, as opposed to Greed parties? Why the dislike/hatred for this style of farming?

Full Version:

I don't really understand Phoenix's populace and their dislike or avoidance of greed parties, and I come to you humble folks to ask for help in understanding why.

To set some context here, I'm a dual-server player. I somewhat alternate my gaming time between Phoenix and Gilgamesh - a luxury afforded to me at this point in my life for personal reasons. In Phoenix, all I see are N>G farm parties. Greed parties do appear rarely, and sometimes people flame at the idea of them. Today I saw a particularly harsh example:

http://i.imgur.com/oBpIXCm.png
(Censored the colorful language)

Conversely, here's the Gilgamesh PF at around 11:25am PST (5 minutes ago as of this writing, and way outside of prime time):

http://i.imgur.com/QUUL4oF.png

(Continued)

All the current Gilgamesh FCoB parties are greed parties. So why the massive cultural difference? Maybe I got a bit too ahead of myself, let's start again with a definition:

Greed Party - Two possible definitions

1) A party in which all members call a few items (1 to 2 usually) that they want, and these are kept in a list. After each clear, the list is posted in chat, and only people who called items roll on them. Need rolls are expressly forbidden, unless it's the item you called and you aren't rolling against someone else. Often rules are set so a maximum number of people are allowed to call an item before it's locked (i.e. "Max 2 per item")

2) A party in which you do not need roll (only greed rolls allowed), and no items are called.

Generally when you hear or see "greed party" in PF, it's definition #1. So what's the purpose of a greed party? Well, it's to have people join your party who are extremely geared and competent on their jobs in the turn, to facilitate quick and easy clears of the content, while being able to roll on loot for their less-geared, less experienced alt jobs.

The reason these sorts of parties are so favored on Gilgamesh is because Need > Greed parties tend to attract people playing an unfamiliar or undergeared job, likely one they haven't cleared the turn yet with, in order to be able to need roll on the loot they want. I think you can see why a party filled with these kinds of people has a high chance of failing and wasting everyone's time.

So why are N>G parties king on Phoenix? My best guess is because the majority of the PF population haven't finished gearing out their main job yet, so they don't want to give up main job loot to people's alts. However, surely people realize that being in this situation means more clears, which 1) gives you great practice at being in a skilled party with veterans at a turn, and 2) means loot is raining on the party, which increases the chance you at least get to roll on the item you want.

People of Phoenix, can you shed some light on this for me?

It's simple, people don't like competition. In greed parties there's a good chance 5 other people are after the same piece of loot you are. If you're the only Ninja in a normal party looking for a pair of daggers you're guaranteed to get them.
But with that said, the amount of greed parties has been on the rise as of late, you usually find some on the PF. It's relatively new concept on the server as there weren't any as far as I can recall before FCoB lockout was removed.

Probably depends on the point of view when I geared blm I only needed a piece from each turn so join a party on pld and call my piece. When I went to gear my Nin I needed all the pieces still. So if I were to join a call one greed party I might end up with other people not on nin claiming gear I needed. Depends on where you are gear wise and how comfortable you are actually playing your other classes. Sometimes you benefit sometimes you don't.

I'm all for the concept of greed parties. I really am. But ultimately, i don't think our party finder in general for end game has a high enough skill cap. Even those who have one kill, little experience on other classes, or straight out paid for a clear of t13 will join these greed parties. So it comes back to square one of "not skilled enough group members".

I like the idea and I've tried it by joining them but it will mostly result in either people ninja'ing the loot with needing or greeding.
Also the amount of horrible people on this server is just silly, I even got kicked and blacklisted for helping out and talking with reason.
Its a hit or miss really.

I've joined a few greed parties today to confirm my thoughts on them. Of 4 greed parties over 3 hours, we had 1 kill.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Divine_Intervention

I've joined a few greed parties today to confirm my thoughts on them. Of 4 greed parties over 3 hours, we had 1 kill.

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Joined PF on Phoenix lad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deefunx

Joined PF on Phoenix lad.

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Sorry, don't quite understand the point of your post? Not being a dk, genuinely don't get your point lol.

Are Phoenix need parties that much better? I'm legitimately curious coming form Balmung where G>N with locks is the standard. We fill parties relatively fast, you pick an item you want exclusively to yourself (first come first served) and sometimes a secondary item that 2 people will lot on. Typically experienced parties go well regardless of if people are on their main job or not. Usually, the parties that fail are people who are on their main job but just aren't as familiar with the fight, having only cleared it once or twice or bought their win.

Honestly, no, the need parties aren't much better. I've been spending a couple of weeks on and off the party finder, and outwith of dragging some of my friends (who have been farming it for months), into the fight it's extremely rare to actually get a kill.

Phoenix end-game is terrible. I have to resort to pf for progression but it's filled with kill groups that fail at phase one. It almost makes me want to switch which might be a possibility once the new data centers are released. I just suffered through 3 weeks of t12 farming/failing to then roll a 3 on the loot i wanted when it finally dropped. Greed parties with a loot list is a great idea, however the skill level of the server in general isn't suited for it.

I feel your pain mate. Think i've bumped into you a few times actually. When second coil was still lockout, i was farming it for months without getting any loot, and eventually managed when it became farmable properly.

Same deal with final coil. I have an awesome static now, and when we get together we own it, but a lot of time i'm on PF trying to farm, and it's just not a great place.

You will never get this to work on this server. People are idiots.

You'll get 3 possibilities.

1. Your group fails.
2. People will need on items.
3. People will join with the class they need gear on and come with shit dps. Making 2nd possibility 100%.

Suprised no one has told OP that you can bypass the character limit on your posts by editing.
so no need for all those posts.

I dont think its a matter of skill even though it kinda comes off that way, its more the concept of being on the job you want gear for. If you arent on that job and unable to roll need then why do you get gear for it if someone else can roll need? "play your job or wait til others need" kinda spells this out but in a harsh way. This seems to me, to be more of an indication of general progress on the server. It seems the people making these PF posts on most servers already have gear for mains and are expecting others similar, so you play the job thats most geared so the win is easier, but you are there to gear up your secondary jobs for fun, hence greed > need.

Maybe on that server there is a far less clear rate for coil and the motivated players are trying to gear up their first jobs, or an indication there are more statics on that server and less pugging all around? who knows. I cant say one is better than the other, but Im used to being in a static so we are geared already, but when we pug we do greed > need and expect the people joining to bring their best geared jobs regardless of what they need for it.

Greed parties are necessary on farm side so people can use their main jobs and to fill the PT quickly.
I was used to play on a Legacy server and we had greed parties since the primals.

I think it just depends on what gear people are looking for.

I did about 30 kills just to SEE my Dreadwyrm Grimoire one time. I'm not competing with others for this for sure. :D
And since I'm farming mostly with my "Static" of five people, I can roll on GLT-stuff every time against 3 other people the most.

Thus it doesn't make sense for us to join greed-parties, because the five of us already worked out who rolls on what and there is only 1-3 other guys who'll roll on it too then.

If you're about gearing your secondary classes, then greed-groups are certainly fine.
But looking for my main-weapon I'd prefer normal farm groups.

To be honest i'm actually really surprised you guys fail so much on pf.

I've done quite a lot of them and they are going well 80% of the time. Even T13 farm party are working fairly well.

Maybe it is time some of you realize that they might also be the reason of the fail ? :)


My post might sounds tauntfull but it's actually usually the truth.

Hey Sanda, bumped into you on PF yesterday i think lol. Yeah, don't get me wrong, when it's me that's screwed up I like to think i'm open enough about it.
Heck, i've had nights where i just plain sucked, but at that point i thanked the party for their time, wished them luck and left.

I have set a few greed parties myself recently and most of the time they have been very successful, unfortunately people still tend to job join on whatever job is available. One party the other day every single prey exploded.....pretty obviously this person has this on farm but had 0 experience in healing it

That being said I have had 4hr farms with some people, when your in that it's awesome

Set up 1 yesterday to have dragon questioning why he's not allowed to need the neck piece, as its his bis. After explaining to no aveil I hit the BL button, me me me me me attitude is toxic, I personally don't see how in a greed party a of maker can lock an item for themselves only

Now i like the op is a dual server player my main being on a lower pop server, but i to see no reason why need>greed farms are considered better surely there are farming ls's out there someone ninja's loot just drop there name in them as a warning, its pretty simple really.