Sellruns: What's the GM position?

Hey, I googled it and found a few opinions here there and everywhere, but I thought I'd ask on the official forum and get a correct answer.

So we have FCOB on farm, and decided to do a few sellruns and deposit the profit into the FC kitty for the upcoming expansion. A few people PMed me and insisted that we run them first before they pay. I declined, retorting that I wouldn't be held responsible for wasting the time of my static. I did however wonder that if such a scenario ever arose, where would either accountable party stand in the eyes of a GM?
For instance; if we sold a t10 run for x gil and the player we boosted refused to pay afterwards and vanished off into the mist, and I reported said player, what would be the outcome considering the circumstances were proven true?

I'm pretty sure if the player gets carried without paying you, you won't be able to do much. Have them pay first.

I would imagine like any service offered by players it would be covered by scamming. I would always take payment before the run to avoid any issues though.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/fa...=68216&id=5382

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In-game scams are defined as any inappropriate actions meant to defraud a fellow player with the intent to take in-game items or other possessions from them.

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The closest thing I can think of is that if a party agrees to some loot rule such as Greed only and someone breaks the rule, as long as everyone understood and accepted the rule then GMs can help

Yes, this is why I demanded the payment first. My worry is that the sell service is not defined as something with which we can be defrauded, whereas if I take a player's millions and vanish, I am absolutely accountable; there is no button for me to "agree" to take payment for this service officially, like there is for melding.

You cannot be defrauded by something like this, unless you literally take their money and don't run them into whatever they paid for.

If you take payment, they expect you to down it while they're sitting outside. If you do, loot is theirs (unless you stated this price was for no loot, then that's another story).

However, in your case, if you specifically said "you need to pay after we run t10 for you for x amount of gil", then yes you can somewhat report it. Send a screenshot along with the report, because it's basically a service that someone is paying you for.


In the future, always demand money first politely. It's the best way. :).

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Originally Posted by CBF

Yes, this is why I demanded the payment first. My worry is that the sell service is not defined as something with which we can be defrauded, whereas if I take a player's millions and vanish, I am absolutely accountable; there is no button for me to "agree" to take payment for this service officially, like there is for melding.

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If you can get all parties involved to confirm acceptance of the conditions of your agreement in chat then the GM's can enforce it from what I understand. What exactly they would do with the player in breach of the agreement I have no idea. Somehow I doubt a GM would force the player to pay you though...

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Originally Posted by UltimateAoe2

You cannot be defrauded by something like this, unless you literally take their money and don't run them into whatever they paid for.

If you take payment, they expect you to down it while they're sitting outside. If you do, loot is theirs (unless you stated this price was for no loot, then that's another story).

However, in your case, if you specifically said "you need to pay after we run t10 for you for x amount of gil", then yes you can somewhat report it. Send a screenshot along with the report, because it's basically a service that someone is paying you for.


In the future, always demand money first politely. It's the best way. :).

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Thanks for this, is there any way I could have this confirmed in any sort of official way though? Really don't want to let the team down by carrying an idiot who doesn't pay and then not being able to do anything about it.

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Originally Posted by CBF

Thanks for this, is there any way I could have this confirmed in any sort of official way though? Really don't want to let the team down by carrying an idiot who doesn't pay and then not being able to do anything about it.

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The only "official" way is taking a screen of the agreement. Other than that, you're out of luck, unfortunately. You could ask the GM to check your past logs but I don't think they'll do that.
Agreements are some sort of living document. Always remember that.

Sorry to hear that happened to you guys unfortunately. You could ask for assistance from a GM but I'm not sure if they'll do anything about it.
Just warn other selling LS's of the person, though. ^^b.

I always figured "Half up front" would be a good compromise, just like in the real world.

As far as official word on the matter is, anything said in chat is considered a binding agreement between 2 plays or a party. IF you break an agreement that both parties agreed too that was discussed ingame chat, the ones who violated are considered malicious players and a GM can step in. As for what happens, I do not know, but chat agreements are chat agreements.

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Originally Posted by MatthiasS

I always figured "Half up front" would be a good compromise, just like in the real world.

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When my static mercs, we always take full payment beforehand. You pay up front, or you don't get the clear.

Sure we want the gil, but there's plenty of people out there willing to pay cash for clears.

Make them pay of front. The person have nothing to lose if you run him and then he run away but if he pay and you dont do the clear you have your FC reputation on the line.

i went thru this while selling shiva with friends. took about 20 minutes for a GM to force the person to pay what he owed.

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

i went thru this while selling shiva with friends. took about 20 minutes for a GM to force the person to pay what he owed.

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And here I was always under the impression GMs didn't involve themselves in player disputes such as these...ah well.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

And here I was always under the impression GMs didn't involve themselves in player disputes such as these...ah well.

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We are talking about a fraud here, so they do act on it.

Most sellgroups demand the payment upfront, and if they somehow fail the kill, then they refund in full, it's a part of their trade agreement, which is binding in the GM eyes. There is no problem with it.

This is exactly the sort of info I was after, much appreciated guys. And yeah, I do tend to explain to these marklar about my reputation, my FC's reputation, the fact that I don't personally need their money, blah blah but they still seem scared to pay 1m for t5. o.O

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Originally Posted by kyuven

And here I was always under the impression GMs didn't involve themselves in player disputes such as these...ah well.

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In this context, they take the offending player to a GM jail and have a discussion. Even if the offender still refuses to part with their money, the GM will just take the money off that player and given it to the plaintiff. Or so I've been told by someone that played the "offender" role on a sell run.

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Originally Posted by Darra

In this context, they take the offending player to a GM jail and have a discussion. Even if the offender still refuses to part with their money, the GM will just take the money off that player and given it to the plaintiff. Or so I've been told by someone that played the "offender" role on a sell run.

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If they refuse, the GM will remove the gil from the offender, create the taken amount on their GM char and trade it to the victim asap (if it's an item, they will send it via mogmail). Technically they can just create the gil directly to the victim but it's easy to make a typo this way.

It just looks better on the report if the offender trades the gil to the GM, so the choice is given.