Future Ability Bloat

What skills do you think could be combine into other skills to reduce future ability bloat?

SE has shown that they have taken some notes from the progression of WoW over the years. An example of this is item level inflation and how SE is trying to slow that down in ARR. Another problem WoW ran into was ability bloat. Now WoW is a bit of a different beast in how it handles utility skills and what not but I think it may be something SE could learn from before they get to that point.
It has been stated that we will be getting more than 2 new skills and in some cases new rotations with the level cap going up. It has also been noted that some skills are being reworked.
With all of this in mind, what skills do you think could be combine into other skills to reduce future ability bloat?
Try to keep balance in mind but let us all agree we are not devs and so there will always be factors in balance we overlook.

As a DRG some skills I think could be tossed into other skills would be:

-Heavy Thrust: 15% damage increase for 20s
-Phlebotomize: 30 potency DOT for 18s
-Feint: 20% slow 20s (I often forget this skill even exists..)

I think these 3 skills could just be built right into the True, Vorpal, and Full Thrust chain.

-True Thrust now adds 15% damage increase for X time
-Vorpal Thrust now adds a DOT for X time
-Full thrust now slows for X time

What skills do you think could be combine? Keep in mind SMN is getting a full rework and it sounds like BLM is getting big changes as well.

For now I don't think there will be any ability bloat, we will have too much after 2/3 expansions, for not it will just be fine, maybe a little troublesome on PS3. ( although they have ideas for more binds with a controller )

Hmm i dont think they should put all of the basiskills with effects. or at least lets say

Basic Attack: Has normal dmg
+ If charakter is on LV 30 it has this Buff on it
on 50 maybe a second

Iam a Warrior and if i would be in Sastasha losing the Intrest all the Time bec of some standart skills i would quit being a Tank. Over a certain level okaaay basiclyspoken

If i would speak for the War (sorry iam german so i say skill lv so bec i dont know the english words from it

The level 30 Skill both effects of the 30 and 50 just a i writen above on 30 you have the normal one and on 50 both, but bec of both they are a little bit weaker or so.

Let us not forget the skills you mentioned are off the GCD and have 0 tp cost. So they give drg an additional bank to pull from for dps when waiting on gcd timer. Other jobs might be in the same boat.

Was quoting OP but their post was so large it won't let me quote it within character limits. So i just referenced it here.

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Originally Posted by Jack-Frosttiger

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Lower levels get hit a little but a fix may be as easy as just adjusting the rate at which some basic skills are obtained.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WHS

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Every 1 of the skills I said are on GCD

All I know is this. BLM could very easily stand to lose Freeze as a skill entirely, or at least have its cast time incredibly shortened to make it remotely more useful than Blizzard II.

But other than that and MAYBE Lethargy (which, in a future patch, could maybe make it so Blizzard inflicts Slow/Heavy rather than just Heavy and ditch Lethargy entirely), BLM doesn't really have much in the way of bloat right now.

I think more abilities will help add to the "class uniqueness" that people are complaining about. Give people more than one way to play a Job.

No matter what they decide, someone will complain....

When I hear ability bloat, i immediately think of SMN.

Sounds boring if you gonna reduce DRG down to the basic 2 combos

Reducing ability bloat is easy and it's been done in other MMOs.

The simple method is this.
Example: Currently we live in a system where if you have 6 attack abilities they work like
A B C D E F

If the combos are

A-B-C
A-B-D
A-B-E
A-F

That means 6 hotbar slots are being used for those 4 combos

So you could have a setup like

Hotbar 2=F-D-E
Hotbar 1=A-B-C

However instead of that what they could do is this

You have 4 combos

When I hit A, A now turns into B, when I press B it turns into C and then the combo is done it reverts back to A(or if combo timer runs out)

So now you have this

Hotbar 1=A(B)(C)-A(B)(D)-A(B)(E)-A(F)

So intead of having the hotbar use 6 spaces for 4 combos it now only uses 4.

Space could further be saved if say instead of setting each hotbar for x combo it instead does this

Hotbar 1=A.

Hit A and the following happens

Hotbar 1=B-F

Then if you hit F it goes back to A but if you hit B then this happens

Hotbar 1=C-D-E

So now in combat you would have this

ABC=1 1 1
AF=1 2
ABD=1 1 2
ABE=1 1 3

In that scenario now only 3 spaces are taken up for combos.

So overall there are manners in which abilities could be changed to make it easier to add but for now it is wait and see, we'll most likely know by next Thursday during the live letter, since they do plan on talking about battle system changes, though my bets are on they will do one of the two options listed above so that they can add more abilities without making the hotbar to cluttered.

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Originally Posted by Chihaya

Sounds boring if you gonna reduce DRG down to the basic 2 combos

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Let us not act like the current rotation is anything special...
We are gaining more skills with the level cap. DRG is already basically 2 combos with 2 stand alone skills and a bunch of off GCD stuff. It is just cleaning house you are not losing anything assuming the new skills are worth using.

The point seems to be being missed that every class is gaining a bunch of new skills and in some cases new combos..

I realy don't want to make this about my thoughts on DRG. I just wanted to see peoples ideas on skills that maybe don't get much if any use or could be put together to help stream line things for the new skills.

Personally don't agree with the suggestion to combine multiple abilities into a single ability.

I enjoy the difficulty associated with having lots of abilities and think it would be overpowered to do something like the OP suggested for the drg abilities. Additional effects and dots add some variance to the button pressing so you can't just spam 1-4 and succeed.

I'm sure not everybody agrees with me but that's my opinion on the matter, I find all of the jobs simple enough as is and do not want to see them simplified further.

There was never any ability bloat in WoW. It was simply an excuse to dumb down the game and appeal to casuals.

The arguement was that a lot of abilities and needed keybinds confused new players. Obviously that "reasoning" backfired and now people are tired of every class being the same because all the unique abilities got pruned or made passive. There was never any actual bloat. What they called bloat was abilities that were only useful in certain situations. The problem is that these abilities upped the skillcap and allowed for more varied play.

Complexity wise, WoW is completely dead. FFXIV doesn't even have close to the amount of abilities WoTLK had so I don't see it ever becoming a problem. Ability bloat is an artifical excuse to dumb down their game that Blizzard created for this specific purpose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Airget

Reducing ability bloat is easy and it's been done in other MMOs.

The simple method is this.
Example: Currently we live in a system where if you have 6 attack abilities they work like
A B C D E F

If the combos are

A-B-C
A-B-D
A-B-E
A-F

That means 6 hotbar slots are being used for those 4 combos

So you could have a setup like

Hotbar 2=F-D-E
Hotbar 1=A-B-C

However instead of that what they could do is this

You have 4 combos

When I hit A, A now turns into B, when I press B it turns into C and then the combo is done it reverts back to A(or if combo timer runs out)

So now you have this

Hotbar 1=A(B)(C)-A(B)(D)-A(B)(E)-A(F)

So intead of having the hotbar use 6 spaces for 4 combos it now only uses 4.

Space could further be saved if say instead of setting each hotbar for x combo it instead does this

Hotbar 1=A.

Hit A and the following happens

Hotbar 1=B-F

Then if you hit F it goes back to A but if you hit B then this happens

Hotbar 1=C-D-E

So now in combat you would have this

ABC=1 1 1
AF=1 2
ABD=1 1 2
ABE=1 1 3

In that scenario now only 3 spaces are taken up for combos.

So overall there are manners in which abilities could be changed to make it easier to add but for now it is wait and see, we'll most likely know by next Thursday during the live letter, since they do plan on talking about battle system changes, though my bets are on they will do one of the two options listed above so that they can add more abilities without making the hotbar to cluttered.

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http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Ra...asy_as_123.jpg

I have Base 12 keys, then 12 keys more using Control, 12 more using Alt, and 12 more using Shift. I have a total of 48 keys at just the tips of two fingers. I also use peripherals that make using these controls easier. (Razor Naga and Razor Nostromo) So there is no way my hotbars are going to run out of room anytime soon. What you're purposing is much like the system Guild Wars 2 uses for some of their skills. Where pressing one button or holding it down will spam a combo. For the sake of energy preservation to not have to lift my finger off a key, I can see the benefit of this, but the necessity is drastically lacking when compared to much more important fixes that need to take place.

Ability bloat in this game? Even in WoW bloat wasn't as bad as people say (really it was UI clutter), and some specs feel gutted in the aftermath in the removal of said bloat. This game isn't facing the same problems yet (Wow is on its fifth expansion and forty levels above original cap) and if it does, the nature of it will probably be different from WoW. WoW cut out or rolled together skills that were situational, and limited certain spells to certain specs; classes in this game only have one role with no varieties of specs aside from cross class abilities, which don't make anything more complex.