Masterbook 2 helps pls

So i've been watching vids on rotations etc but most seem a bit out dated as im in the situation of i have lucis and 333cp (without food )/376 cp ( after food)with artisan turn in gear with artisan of hand.

The rotation i saw/ use now is
Comfort zone
Inner quiet
pbp x2
Steady hand 2 + ingenuity -> rapid synth x2
Hasty touch x2
Comfort zone
Master mend 2
Steady hand 2 + waste not 2
Hasty touch spam till 20 durability
Great strides
Ingenuity 2 ( if enough cp )
Innovation
BB
Careful synth 2

I use ToT when i can before Hasty touch spam.
Tho i only got 1/5 hq attempts :(
I try to land BB on great or excellent
But it usually goes plllbttt lol
Anyone have a better rotation thts more cpnsistent?

I don't really like Waste Not 2 because you'll run out of Steady Hand 2, and you "lose" a stack of WN2 if you reapply it, or if you don't reapply it the next 4 or 5 hasty touches are gonna be only 50% chance of working (more like 20-30% due to the evil nature of this game RNG)
Also, you either miss 20CP or a stack of WN2 for each Good condition that you (dont) use Tricks of the trade...

I did these books a while ago before Lucis existed, and with most classes i didn't have artisan off-hand tool, I'm sure it's different now with Lucis.

I always used ToT whenever possible, refreshed Confort Zone whenever needed, no WN2, and did 2 Master Mend II during the craft, possibly another manipulation in the end if CP was high enough.



Try to get at least a Good condition on an at least partially buffed Byregot, at 11 stacks of Inner Quiet.
(Ideally, excellent condition with a fully buffed Byregot)
If that doesn't happen, Rumination to burn your IQ stacks into CP and Reclaim. Use hasty touches to fail the craft, hope to get your items back, and try again.

(I had to remove Careful Synth 2 to have all skills needed. Not a big problem, basic synth worked fine)

Waste Not II is, well, a waste. Cheap as it is, it loses its value every time you use Tricks while it's up - and you should be using Tricks every time it is up, not just during "safe" periods when there's no buffs ticking down.

Replace WN2 with Reclaim. That way, when you can't land on a good or excellent (and this will happen OFTEN), you can abandon ship and try again. If having the CP for Reclaim is a problem, drop Ingenuity 2 and replace it with Rumination; if you're going to Reclaim and try again, you won't need the IQ stacks for BB, so you can use them for Rum instead, and that will give you plenty of CP for Reclaim.

Ingenuity and Ingenuity 2 are practically worthless on 3 and 4 star synths, as they only slightly increase the potency of synthesis, and they cost SO much CP - especially if you're using it twice!

Ah ok i'll try using rumi as a fail safe combo with reclaim cuz sometimes im like nooooooo too short of cp and no ToT procs for like 5 steps lol.
So is
Comfort zone
Inner quiet
PbP x2
Steady hand 2 + rapid synth 2
Still the way to go? For making the synth almost complete.

yeah pretty much
2 basic (or careful2) synths should finish it iirc

Hey thanks lol i managed to hq 2 of them on the first 2 tries.
I really like that rumination + reclaim fail safe thing, w

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Hey thanks lol i managed to hq 2 of them on the first 2 tries.
I really like that rumination + reclaim fail safe thing, w

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Hey, congratz! This post has actually given me some confidence to try them out tonight!

Another pointer for maxing your finishing Control boost is:
Steady Hands II > Ingenuity II > Innovation > touch > Great Strides > Byregot's > Flawless Synthesis II.
The primary difference is to start your finishing rotation when you are at 30 instead of 20, thus allowing you to benefit from Innovation on two touches.

That will increase the Quality added by that last pre-BB Touch, but will not boost Control any more than a more standard BB finisher would.

The tradeoff is a loss of the ability to fish for Good/Excellent. Steady Hand->Great Strides->Innovation->Ingenuity 2->Byregot's lets you pop the Byregot's on any Good or Excellent after the Great Strides.

The only thing I'm not 100% positive on is whether the Innovation or the Ingenuity is a bigger boost. The bigger boost would be used first, in case of a Good/Excellent on the second turn after popping Great Strides.

Keep in mind you can desynth the NQ's if you've got desynth leveled in that craft, so they aren't a complete waste. Honestly, Mithrie's crafting guides have been the most help to me out of anything. https://www.youtube.com/user/Mithrie

Remember these are the hardest synths in the game right now, and it is very hard to get a quality, so you're gambling on <50% HQ chance alot.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

The only thing I'm not 100% positive on is whether the Innovation or the Ingenuity is a bigger boost.

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Ingenuity II appears to be ~30% bonus, while Innovation is 20%. The Ingenuity value is calculated by comparing Synthesis actions under and not under it's effect.
FYI, Ingenuity I appears to be ~10% bonus.

Don't desynth just turn in for 1 materia cuz if ur desynth explodes lol.

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Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

Ingenuity II appears to be ~30% bonus, while Innovation is 20%. The Ingenuity value is calculated by comparing Synthesis actions under and not under it's effect.
FYI, Ingenuity I appears to be ~10% bonus.

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Ingen II wants 1 more ToT catched than Innovation. It hapenns not very often. I see it on BSM crafts - no way to add Innovation to this class cross akills, so i use Ingen II. With other classes i use Innovation

CP difference side, Ingenuity (and Ing2) work very differently from Innovation. Innovation simply adds 50% of your base Control to your current. If you are at 420 Control as your base, have IQ going, each stack (beyond the first) of IQ adds 20%. Innovation adds 50%. 2 stacks of IQ would have your temporary Control at 504. 3 stacks would be 588, and so on. Innovation simply adds a straight up 210. Depending on how many IQ stacks you have, that may be a heck of a lot or it may be a small amount, relatively speaking. At 11 stacks of IQ, you are tripling your base Control, to 1260 in this example, while Innovation still only adds 210.

And Innovation should have nothing at all to do with the Synthesis actions you make, only Touches.

Ok, not a Master 2 book test recipe, but the results are still in. No gear changes made here, this was all from making LTW Lucis tokens. 458 Craft, 415 Control, 398 CP (with food); 222 Difficulty, 40 Durability, 4980 Quality recipe.

8 IQ, GS, Ing2, Good : 2488 Quality from BB
8 IQ, GS, Inno, Good : 2659 Quality from BB
8 IQ, GS, Ing2, Inno : 2009 Quality from BB
8 IQ, GS : 1463 Quality from BB

9 IQ, GS, Good : 2578 Quality from BB
9 IQ, GS, Inno : 2058 Quality from BB
9 IQ, GS, Ing2 : 1947 Quality from BB

Innovation is better for Quality than Ingenuity 2, looks like. I did not test Ingenuity 1.

Additionally
In my 4* crafts (a little modified mb2 rotation) i need 74 CP to finish using gs innov bb, 80 CP to finish using gs ingen bb and 88 CP to finish using gs ingen 2 bb. Variant with ingen practically (very near to) never happens, variant with 88 CP needs 1 more ToT.
I think that the only reason to use ingen 2 in endgame crafts is low crship that may not allow to progress 3* crafts (including mb2) in 4 hits and 4* crafts in 5 hits.

An explanation as to why Ingenuity and Ingenuity II are less effective at higher levels:

When you craft items above your level, your synthesis and touches receive penalties. This is something every crafter learns early on - at level 20, for instance, your synthesis and touches are far less effective when working on a level 20 craft than they are when working on a level 25 craft. This level difference is even more exaggerated when you get into 2-star crafting, because you're working on recipies that are TWENTY levels higher than your maximum level!

Ingenuity and Ingenuity II work by reducing the effective level of your craft. Originally, these abilities reduced the effective level of the craft to your current level, and your current level minus 3, respectively. For example, if you're crafting a level 70 item, and you use Ingenuity, your synthesis steps and touches are treated as though you're working on a level 50 craft instead of a level 70 craft. If you used Ingenuity II, they would be treated as though you were working on a level 47 craft. Fortunately, SE decided that the penalty for touches is far less severe than the penalty for synthesis, which meant that players were free to save using Ingenuity to use for synthesis steps only (important, because Ingenuity is an expensive ability in terms of CP, and it'd be way too expensive to keep it up every step of the craft!).

When SE added level 90 recipes, they ran into a snag: Ingenuity and Ingenuity II would make these recipes TOO EASY if they continued to reduce the craft to your level. So, they changed these skills so that they instead reduce the recipe by a certain number of levels. I don't know if it's been determined what the exact number of levels is, but let's assume 20 levels for Ingenuity and 23 levels for Ingenuity II (which would cause them to behave identically when used on 2-star synths). So, now, working on a level 90 craft, using these abilities would reduce the level to 70 and 67. When SE added level 110 recipes, this reduces the level to 90 and 87.

So, for level 110 recipes, even under Ingenuity II you're still crafting as though you're trying to craft something 37 levels higher than you are! Quality touches and synthesis steps are still being penalized - synthesis steps particularly so! So how is it these recipes are possible at all?

The answer is that SE established the level penalties on a curve. The higher a recipe is beyond your level, the less each additional level adds to your penalty. So, in the first twenty levels above you, penalties are drastic. Twenty to forty, they're worse, but not a whole lot worse. Forty to sixty, and the additional penalties are barely noticeable. This is why Ingenuity and Ingenuity II become far less useful for 3-star and 4-star synths. You still have to craft with a penalty (that's impossible to avoid), but the amount that Ingenuity corrects this penalty becomes less and less the higher you go.

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Originally Posted by JillyBean

Keep in mind you can desynth the NQ's if you've got desynth leveled in that craft, so they aren't a complete waste. Honestly, Mithrie's crafting guides have been the most help to me out of anything. https://www.youtube.com/user/Mithrie

Remember these are the hardest synths in the game right now, and it is very hard to get a quality, so you're gambling on <50% HQ chance alot.

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THIS , no matter how many guides u read or whatever they tell you, this YouTube guide on lucis and masterbooks is THE guide. I got all my masters 2 and 5 lucis With this . Remember this master and lucis are bound to luck there's no 100% guarantee quality .

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Originally Posted by Mature

THIS , no matter how many guides u read or whatever they tell you, this YouTube guide on lucis and masterbooks is THE guide. I got all my masters 2 and 5 lucis With this . Remember this master and lucis are bound to luck there's no 100% guarantee quality .

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lol really? since when did Mithrie become an authority on crafting, way I see it, he's too busy working on his videos, his actual crafting rotations are quite sub-optimal.. He does have some good ideas though which helped me make some decent money, but his guides are really just for beginners, mostly macro'd too.. For the best results, you need to craft manually.

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Originally Posted by GenJoe

lol really? since when did Mithrie become an authority on crafting, way I see it, he's too busy working on his videos, his actual crafting rotations are quite sub-optimal.. He does have some good ideas though which helped me make some decent money, but his guides are really just for beginners, mostly macro'd too.. For the best results, you need to craft manually.

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It's so, but... I often make mistakes during long rotations. For me manual crafts are not optimal and i prefer less effective but error safe macros when it's possible.

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Originally Posted by Alx789

It's so, but... I often make mistakes during long rotations. For me manual crafts are not optimal and i prefer less effective but error safe macros when it's possible.

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Well, most of your macros pick up ToTT anyway, and have multiple paths for finisher depending on CP gained.. I just don't like the downtime though, and with my crappy internet connection tethered off of my phone, lag spikes are more of an issue than me making a mistake.

It's not that hard, I pretty much craft anything above 1 star the same way using my 4 star rotation without the PbP/RS for lower tier crafts.. I'm sure it's sub-optimal for 1,2star crafts but my gear makes up for it.. Sometimes I hit Byregots too early with 200 CP remaining on 2 stars and end up with 80% hq.. then I have to put a few touches in to get to 100%. I have the macro for them.. but the lag spikes.. Once I dc'd 5 seconds after making an inferno weapon, so I was able to finish the craft, and was about to trade it, then got dc'd.. With that kind of connection, I can't rely on macros :P

I watched mithries and its a good introduction for crafting rotations for ppl who r new to it ( i.e when i first started doing them )
It gives you an idea of how it should go but ofc not everyone will have the same stats and cp.
So imo the best rotations r the rotations u understand urself.

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Originally Posted by GenJoe

lol really? since when did Mithrie become an authority on crafting, way I see it, he's too busy working on his videos, his actual crafting rotations are quite sub-optimal.. He does have some good ideas though which helped me make some decent money, but his guides are really just for beginners, mostly macro'd too.. For the best results, you need to craft manually.

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I didn't say he was an authority in crafting so no need to get bitter about it when others get recognized for their good job. In the other hand I think hes got a VERY consistent guide which a lot of tubers lack. And his 3stars for lucis and for master book II are manual Crafting if you haven't checked.

If you are new to crafting and wanting to get optimal rotation no best place to go than Mithrie tube. You'll understand once you are start watching the guides.

No I'm not bitter, and I'm a fan of Mithrie just as much as the next guy, like I said, some of his guides have helped me to make some decent money on the MB when I was first starting out..

But when you spread around ideas like his guide is the best you can get for those high tier crafts, you're spreading misinformation, that could lead to millions of gil lost by a new crafter trying to enter the market. I've seen the same thing happen all too often with people trying to use outdated guides.. It's simply not the most optimized solution to the problem.

Is he the best on youtube? I don't know, but I'll take your word for it.. But we're talking about youtube here, there really isn't all that much info there.. The forums and reddits are the true treasure trove of knowledge when it comes to the more intricate things (number crunching, theorycrafting etc.) and end-game crafting needs some of that.

Just look at the forums and read for yourself, Scarebearz, Xenosan, Riceisnice, and even Zephyrz when he actually feels like saying something constructive (rare, but it does happen) display a much deeper knowledge of crafting than Mithrie does in his videos.

I'm not saying that Mithrie's a scrub, noob, or whatever.. I'm simply pointing out that

A. He has other work to do with his videos, so he doesn't spend nearly as much time on crafting as some of the other crafters that lurk these forums.
and..
B. His choice of medium, a video simply cannot convey all the message that exist between the lines and crafting has a lot of subtleties that he simply cannot get out with a video. Just look at Caimie Tsukino's guides, now THAT is a guide, think a series of 20 minute videos can match that? It'd be very difficult.

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Originally Posted by Mature

I didn't say he was an authority in crafting. . .

no best place to go than Mithrie tube

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Mmmmhm

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Originally Posted by Alx789

Also, i dont see any reasos to use 4* rotation for 2* and less crafts - there are 100% rng free macros that always reaches 100% quality with one exclusion - poor on byregot.

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Yeah, there's no good reason other than that I don't know the 2 star rotations by heart, so I just use 4 star ones :) It's just a few more steps, and I usually only craft a few of those at once.. if I was mass producing, then yeah I take out my macro and go to a quiet place

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Originally Posted by GenJoe

Well, most of your macros pick up ToTT anyway, and have multiple paths for finisher depending on CP gained..

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No. I use macros for HT/ToT part of rotation and finish manually - macros doesn't allow to bait good on byregot.
Also, i dont see any reasos to use 4* rotation for 2* and less crafts - there are 100% rng free macros that always reaches 100% quality with one exclusion - poor on byregot.

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I fully understand what you trying to say, but then again that's how people gain their reputation. I was talking about my personal experienced. Having researched all over the internet for some useful and consistent guides on crafting as I was a newbie a couple of weeks ago, I finally came acrosS to mithrie guide channel. I managed to get all my lucis thanks to him. I managed to get the hq required without wasting mats or money. That's the only reason why I fully support his guides. If it worked for me , it will work for you. I only started crafting a few weeks ago and now I'm onto my 3rd lucis (blacksmith) Thanks to his guides. That's all. If they were rubbish guides I wouldn't even bothered commenting in here.