So... 2 Jobs one Class?

So I'm curious, not opinions mind you, but has the DEV team actually said there won't be any more duel-job classes a la SUM/SCH? I know the opinion is its a bad idea and they aren't planning anymore but have they actually said that?

There are several old jobs I miss hanging out with that use weapons already out, like a pure dps axe-wielding Berserker, or a bow-wielding melee range+pet having Ranger (see: FFIII Ranger with attack CALL).

Has anyone heard anything definitive or are we all just speculating we wont see it?

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Originally Posted by ErikMynhier

So I'm curious, not opinions mind you, but has the DEV team actually said there won't be any more duel-job classes a la SUM/SCH? I know the opinion is its a bad idea and they aren't planning anymore but have they actually said that?

There are several old jobs I miss hanging out with that use weapons already out, like a pure dps axe-wielding Berserker, or a bow-wielding melee range+pet having Ranger (see: FFIII Ranger with attack CALL).

Has anyone heard anything definitive or are we all just speculating we wont see it?

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I believe so but I don't have a quote. The coming jobs are the proof of it.

They could change the current jobs. To accommodate ROG they changed daggers GLD had into smaller swords so if they had another bow job they could make them long and short bows for example.

Or they could bring in x-bows

I hope not. Summoner and Scholar shows how much of a disaster it can be.

I believe so as well, because the scholar/summoner problem showed up fairly early on when it came time to assign stats. Scholars and summoners use two different stats, so prospective scholars trying to level Arcanist were making themselves slightly sub-par dps until 30 (And are still slightly sub-par when they decide to switch over to summoner.)

I think they are trying to move away from the class/job system because it was a relic from 1.0. Which is why the 3 new jobs don't have classes.

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Originally Posted by Lilyarel

I hope not. Summoner and Scholar shows how much of a disaster it can be.

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Summoner and Scholar are a pretty unique case though, since they require two opposing stats. If both branching jobs required the same stat, this issue wouldn't exist which could solve a lot of headaches.

I'm thinking largely about Ranger as a job, which would flow nicely from Archer and still use Dexterity as a main stat. There are other such examples of classes which could have extra jobs without compromising their existing ones.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Summoner and Scholar are a pretty unique case though, since they require two opposing stats. If both branching jobs required the same stat, this issue wouldn't exist which could solve a lot of headaches.

I'm thinking largely about Ranger as a job, which would flow nicely from Archer and still use Dexterity as a main stat. There are other such examples of classes which could have extra jobs without compromising their existing ones.

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This was brought up with rogue/ninja/thief. The problem you'd get from that point is that, a ranger wouldn't play any different from a bard because they'd share archer abilities, same deal with ninja/thief. Other issues would be that you can't really buff/nerf one of the jobs/class without buffing/nerfing the other

I do remember them saying before 2.0 that all classes would have more than one job, and that the new class arcanist would be the beginning. However, they also said they were against the cash shop and we still got it. Whatever they said really does not matter, they change intention depending on player desires and flows.
I doubt they add a second job to the "old" classes, although if they do, I'd wish it wouldn't be like arcanist, based on diferent stats yet on traits one stats keeps getting buffed.

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

I do remember them saying before 2.0 that all classes would have more than one job, and that the new class arcanist would be the beginning.

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They probably changed their minds when they saw how much of a headache balancing the two was. That said, I think they've said that classes won't receive any skills at all post-50, and it's all job skills from that point on. If that's the case, then I can see that by the time the level cap hits 75 in 4.0 (that's just a guess), jobs with the same base class will only have about half or less of a shared movepool, which makes it much easier. Heck, they say that a lot of new skills are coming in 3.0, so maybe it'll happen sooner than that.

I don't believe they've said flat out that they will get rid of it.

However, they've made it pretty clear at this point that they're not much of a fan of it at this point. And as nifty as split classes are, I can also see it being something that can drag down a lot of creativity and variety in jobs if they adhered to it.

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Originally Posted by Lilyarel

I hope not. Summoner and Scholar shows how much of a disaster it can be.

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This was likely because the assumption was that players would play one or the other, not both. The problem is that the SCH doesn't really belong on ACN, because if you look at how the stats change with SCH, the SCH job stone brings the stats only up to the level of CNJ.

Everyone focuses on this, but incorrectly ignores that ALL the Jobs required leveling half of another class first. This is a throwback mechanic first seen in Wizardy a CRPG, that predates Final Fantasy and is in fact was more popular in Japan than in North America.

The correct way of fixing it would have been to simply use the FFI style jobs like they were originally designed (eg inspired from Wizardry) where you start as a class and you upgrade to a more powerful Job. Some of those jobs are a direct descendant of their class (eg White Wizard has White Mage.) Where as in Wizardy, there were 4 starting classes (Fighter, Mage, Cleric, Thief) that upgraded to Elite classes (Wizard (Cleric+Mage), Samurai (Mage+Fighter), Lord (Fighter+Cleric), Ninja (Can use all gear, but best ungeared, basically a Thief that can use all gear and no magic)) and this is what the cross-class skill mechanic was for.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I think they are trying to move away from the class/job system because it was a relic from 1.0. Which is why the 3 new jobs don't have classes.

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Nah, if they move away from it, it's too much like "every MMORPG" and less like Final Fantasy. The jobs give you those extra skills and stats, they aren't just a continuation of the base class.

They are probably making the three new Jobs something more like "Elite Jobs" in the Wizardry sense, where you need to have at least one class at level 30 and simply having any class at level 30 unlocks them using new gear that starts at level 1 (30.) eg You enter the "Astrologian" guild in the V3 area and the NPC will go "I see you are a healer, would you like to join the ASTROLOGIAN guild?" , which would then unlock new gear that you as a SCH or WHM can equip. At that point at level 30+ would also unlock a quest somewhere else for the job stone.

For DRK, it seems pretty logical to follow the same rule, new gear that they can equip and a new level 30 stone quest somewhere else. For the DPS to unlock the machinist... seems more like one would just wander into some "machinist garage" as a DPS and have a conversation like "Hey, I see you like to break things too, want to learn how to fix stuff you break?"

All in all, Final Fantasy is strongly story-based. It would not be fun to simply be handed new content and not have to work for it. If the dev's say you can't create new characters in these new jobs, then there must be a storyline reason for it.

I doubt it, like others said Summoner and Scholar was a good example. Even the base class had int boosts and if you wanted to be a healer you had to change everything into mind and vice versa. In-fact it looks like it was to be the base class for Summoner instead. However on a side note scholar sounds like it sould have been the base class for Astrologian or vice versa. In my opinion the Sch/Smn thing would have been fixed if they had a skill that swapped mind and int stats directly. Then you could go full int for summoner then activate that shared ability to swap int totals with mind when you change to Sch and vise-versa. For example; 515 int and 375 Mnd would become; 375 int 515 Mnd. Sch would have all the healing effect boosts and summoner would have all the mage DD boosts. While Arcanist would be have the shared middle of the road stats and abilities. That would make the current setup more functional to change between the two. Otherwise it would have been more of a base class for red mage with that 50/50 stat split.

SMN and SCH reminds me of two people who are super-glued together, and have to try to achieve things despite being glued together..

They messed up big time with SMN/SCH. These are my least favorite combat classes and I've been putting off leveling them.

At first look, it seems like it would be a shame to do away with a fork/tree system that branches out, because it would seem like you miss out on opportunities of having similar but different jobs with a base class to tie them together.
But in reality when you think about it, you can just have similar jobs exist without having to tie them together with a base class at all, and just keep them completely separate. There would be nothing wrong with that.

An example would be the upcoming Machinist. At first glance It would make sense to perhaps tie it together with possible future classes such as Musketeer and Corsair. But really if you had all 3 of those as completely seperate jobs without anything tying them together no matter how similar they are... I don't see anything wrong with that at all. Some people might complain that it would be useless to have them exist if they're too similar, but I don't think I would actually mind it.