General tip to all healers; everywhere

Frustrated DPS Vent; so no need to reply.


As a DPs I know my role, I know my job and I *Always* play it to the very best of my abilities. So kindly; when in a Ex.Roulette Dungeon if you feel like beeing "helpful" by saying gibberish such as "we need more dps", SHUT UP!

What on god's green earth do you really think I am doing in the fight? Knitting, having High Tea and cakes with all the mobs?

I never tell the healer "maybe we need more Regen II" cause I actually appreciate the healers healing my ass when I kill mobs *As fast as I possibly can*, and I assume they know their job like the back of their hand, as I do mine. But apparently the rule "if you can't say anything nice (or actually helpful), say nothing at all" doesn't extend to everybody!

overreacting much?

*swings out a plate full of warm cookies*

Not all healers are such sort. Sad you got a bad one :( .

Yea yelling at dps to do their job is rude. Who am i to be a healer, keep everyone alive and still top dps charts on experts?

Jokes aside. @OP was that dude dpsing at least?

If you are doing your best and doing some good damage, then yes, the healer should stay quiet. However, I regularly encounter dps in ex roulette that are mentally elsewhere, so as a SCH, I end up doing more damage than them, at which point, saying something is perfectly justified IMO.

I never understood getting angry at your party members for "not playing right".

If you truly believe they're doing something wrong, why not just give them some tips, easier and actually helps.

Ofcourse, never get angry, but you shouldn't just stay silen, especially if they are obviously having issues with how their class works. (Such as the infamous Fire III, Blizzard III, Fire III etc etc BLMs, of which I have seen plenty.)

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Originally Posted by mp-please

Yea yelling at dps to do their job is rude. Who am i to be a healer, keep everyone alive and still top dps charts on experts?

Jokes aside. @OP was that dude dpsing at least?

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LOL, funny you mention that. This actually happened last night as I was doing many runs of Amp Keep to help an FC member who was trying to get his Zodiac drop. We got stuck with a black mage who literally used nothing but Freeze, Sleep, Lethargy and Blizzard III the entire time - while I kept everyone alive and was DPSing like mad with Stone IIs, Aeros and Holy.

Was it directed at you or the other dps?

Alot of stuff gets lost in the translation of my mind to the keyboard.

Damage must have been pretty slow to get called out by a healer.

I know this is completely besides the point but.. What is Regen II?

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

I know this is completely besides the point but.. What is Regen II?

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Either Medica II, or the fabled Regen that is unaffected by Cleric Stance!

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Originally Posted by Raminax

Either Medica II, or the fabled Regen that is unaffected by Cleric Stance!

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I bet it's a 100% recovery every 3 seconds!

Jokes aside, OP, you can't compare a healer's job with a DPS job. In simplest sense: It's not the healer's job to keep you alive, it's to keep you in good condition. Staying alive is your own damn job. As for the DPS roles, your role is to, well, deal damage. You're not sharing the full context either. Encounters end up in a failure because of three reasons: Healer's doing a terrible job, failing mechanics or the DPS is simply bad. Assuming the healer is doing their job, that leaves only two reasons for failures: mechanics or bad damage. May be your fault, may not be your fault. Either way; neither reason warrants for some random public rage towards a specific role. This is almost as bad as assuming all football fans are vandals just because there's a handful of hooligans.

Wait what? What about bad tank. Those are not all the possible reasons for a bad run lol

Well, yeah I guess. Makes four then

The healer probably knew of an enrage coming up, and their MP became an issue. The best damage mitigation is actually more damage on the boss. Less healing in the end.

Like another poster mentioned, even when I go SCH in a roulette DF I do more damage than some DPS. I don't say much aside from that melee that just refuses to LB. You know LB? LB NAO.

Anyway, I'm confused by the OP. I'm also confused as to why she has 4+ upvotes. Stating "we need more dps" can be said in a few ways. But how it is stated by the OP it doesn't seem like the healer was actually being rude, mean, or insulting just that they were stating a fact: the team needs more DPS.

Many (all) bosses will eventually wipe your party if you take to long, because of MP/TP concerns and cooldowns, over run by adds, enrage timers, or player fatigue (if it takes to long and players start messing up). ALL of these are countered by having enough/higher DPS to kill the boss in time. Stating "we need more DPS" isn't always to attack the DPS, though usually it happens because the DPS isn't doing correct rotations (lazy or clueless) or they aren't utilizing their full kit. Healers and Tanks are less at fault, but they can still bring some DPS.

So long as the Healer was DPSing as well (if they could. They actually don't even have to do this, but whatever) they actually have a right to state that the team doesn't have enough if things are going poorly because of it (not bad tanks, heals, or mechanics).

I really wish they implemented damage done chart after a boss battle like in frontlines.

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Originally Posted by SinSiew79

But apparently the rule "if you can't say anything nice (or actually helpful), say nothing at all" doesn't extend to everybody!

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Because that's not a rule. If the group is sucking, it's better to call them out and get them to fix it than suffer through 40 minutes of BS.

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Originally Posted by Zysets

I never understood getting angry at your party members for "not playing right".

If you truly believe they're doing something wrong, why not just give them some tips, easier and actually helps.

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Well that works both ways there are times you see somebody needs help and you try to suggest something and the reaction is basically "**** off"

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Originally Posted by Yona87

I really wish they implemented damage done chart after a boss battle like in frontlines.

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It would cause more problems than it solves. Every single run i did in DF where somebody is using a DPS meter is really annoying because all they do is copy and paste charts the entire run and troll whoever is the lowest DPS. I'd rather people get on with the task at hand then start comparing e-peener. Outside of premades you can't trust people to deal with that info maturely.

I think a chart shown after a DF instance, much like commendations, wouldn't be all that bad. That is, at the point where you're not partied anymore. You'd still get an idea how well you fared but the interest to shame the others (if they even happen to be on same server) is minimal.

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

It would cause more problems than it solves. Every single run i did in DF where somebody is using a DPS meter is really annoying because all they do is copy and paste charts the entire run and troll whoever is the lowest DPS. I'd rather people get on with the task at hand then start comparing e-peener. Outside of premades you can't trust people to deal with that info maturely.

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It can go both ways, though. Someone can think they know everything about their class and don't do anything wrong and not admit the lack of damage is their fault. Having numbers to present could prove otherwise or that he/she is right and the fault lies elsewhere. It's all about the player/group itself: Feel attacked for being pointed as the weakest link or think of it as an indication you could use some improvement.

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

It would cause more problems than it solves. Every single run i did in DF where somebody is using a DPS meter is really annoying because all they do is copy and paste charts the entire run and troll whoever is the lowest DPS.

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That's really more like every run where you knew that someone was parsing. Anyone trying to use parse data to name and shame is asking to be reported.

The fact that a few people are both toxic and not-so-smart doesn't mean that the tool can't be enormously helpful; let's not be quick to toss the baby with the bath water.

Yeah I agree, but I've had dps doing stupid things like BLMS rotation between B3 and F3 only, or MNKs staying in same spot.

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Originally Posted by Sanguisio

Yeah I agree, but I've had dps doing stupid things like BLMS rotation between B3 and F3 only, or MNKs staying in same spot.

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Yep. And many of these people, at least in my experience, respond poorly even to the least accusatory suggestion that they might see improvement with a tweak or two; they only believe it if they see for themselves and start to wonder how they are so much less effective than other players of the same class with comparable gear.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

It can go both ways, though. Someone can think they know everything about their class and don't do anything wrong and not admit the lack of damage is their fault. Having numbers to present could prove otherwise or that he/she is right and the fault lies elsewhere. It's all about the player/group itself: Feel attacked for being pointed as the weakest link or think of it as an indication you could use some improvement.

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As a DPS who doesn't use a parser, it is usually pretty obvious who isn't pulling their weight DPS-wise sans a parser. If they aren't keeping their DoTs/Debuffs up on the enemy or their own buffs up on themselves *most of the time* then you can tell they haven't got a rotation or are struggling with it. Simply stating "we need more DPS" will not help these people, they probably need some (gentle) guidance (though I personally wouldn't take that exact statement as being particularly critical/mean).

If they are roughly doing their rotation, there could be a lot of other reasons for their DPS being lower than you'd like:

1) Lower geared than you are used to. I know I see a lot of i130s running around now and some people have called my gear "terrible" at i105. I know I run low on TP doing AoE rotations even with invigorate because my damage is lower due to weaker gear and thus have to switch to single target for a bit if a bard isn't singing for me.
2) Lag/latency. This can really screw up keeping (de)buffs/dots at maximum up-time. It happens. I remember not being able to see any of my attack animations because my uTorrent decided to kick in randomly and it *really* screwed me up!
3) Mechanics. If I have to dodge a lot of mechanics as a Dragoon trying to stay in melee while avoiding their frontal cleaves/add AoEs, sometimes my shit is going to drop/my rotation will be thrown off. It happens, especially if you become the bosses 'favourite' target for some reason.
4) Tank having aggro difficulties. This happens usually with big pulls where the DPS is actually doing a LOT of damage but the tank is having trouble holding aggro and thus the DPS has to slow down. This is honestly pretty rare, especially with all the i130 tanks running around
5) Healer completely ignoring the DPS. This happens also pretty rarely. If I am *really* low HP without so much as a regen and I know there are some unavoidable bits of damage or "quick" melee AoEs that I likely won't survive, I will have to resort to using a bunch of my cooldowns to heal myself and play "scared" and move away more often.

In the end, it's usually a combination of 1/2/3 that is the problem. For those people who don't seem to "get" that they should have rotations, they should be pointed to resources and people should adjust accordingly. If they respond with hostility, then by all means call them on it.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Yep. And many of these people, at least in my experience, respond poorly even to the least accusatory suggestion that they might see improvement with a tweak or two; they only believe it if they see for themselves and start to wonder how they are so much less effective than other players of the same class with comparable gear.

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And my opinion on that is they need get good, if a healer or tanks plays their class badly people are up in arms asap, but with dps people are like meh.

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Originally Posted by Sanguisio

And my opinion on that is they need get good, if a healer or tanks plays their class badly people are up in arms asap, but with dps people are like meh.

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Well i guess it's easier to hide in the pile and get carried as a DPS but it's not that hard to get carried as a Healer either loads are in denial about how bad they are because they are used to good groups making it easy on them. Most people don't care unless there is a wipe if the Healer is bad with a Tank good or bad is a lot more obvious because it means the Healer has to struggle more and the DPS have to attack less due to lack of control .

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Originally Posted by spelley

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It's not a case about gear or rotation or mechanics. It's a case of stubborn players who refuse to acknowledge they're doing poorly. If you point out at some (for example) black mage doing a Fire III -> Blizzard III repeat-spam, they might hop on the defense chair and say whatever you would say is "wrong".

And about the statement of "we need more DPS", the OP isn't even providing all the information him-/herself. Maybe the healer actually did mention something but was omitted by the OP. Not all the facts are on the table. I wasn't even talking about the OP or whatsoever or whatever you replied to me. It was about numbers being able to aid those who want help or want to help. If not helping others, it could serve to help yourself. There are striking dummies ingame, but there's no way to tell whether you're doing better or worse each time you hit it.

I wish people would stop saying dps(damage per second) as a role and as the meaning of the term damage per second. Pick one and stick with it. Preferably what it was it stands for.

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Originally Posted by Grandmasthong

I wish people would stop saying dps(damage per second) as a role and as the meaning of the term damage per second. Pick one and stick with it. Preferably what it was it stands for.

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It's both. You might not like it, but it's just kind of what MMORPG players have decided to use.

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Originally Posted by Grandmasthong

I wish people would stop saying dps(damage per second) as a role and as the meaning of the term damage per second. Pick one and stick with it. Preferably what it was it stands for.

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It works for both. Instead of saying DPS role most peope just say DPS. I don't really see the issue.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

It works for both. Instead of saying DPS role most peope just say DPS. I don't really see the issue.

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Well, in proper English "Damage Per Second roles" doesn't seem correct - to me anyways. DD roles (Damage Dealing) would seem better, or just DD (Damage Dealer) in general. But yeah, the player base seemed to have picked "DPS" as the abbreviation/identification of attack roles. Even Square-Enix adopted this abbreviation to identify damage roles as "DPS" (see duty finder)

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Well, in proper English "Damage Per Second roles" doesn't seem correct - to me anyways. DD roles (Damage Dealing) would seem better, or just DD (Damage Dealer) in general. But yeah, the player base seemed to have picked "DPS" as the abbreviation/identification of attack roles. Even Square-Enix adopted this abbreviation to identify damage roles as "DPS" (see duty finder)

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Yeah. It doesn't make sense but it's just what people say, I guess. I haven't been playing MMOs since the beginning so I'm not really sure how it came to be like this but it's what I'm use to. I try not to think of it as Damage per second or else I would be complaining about too. xD

Ah i remember yelling at dps lol good times.
My most memorable moments were when i helped dps titan's heart in titan hm and we still fail breaking it in time. Dps too hur dur to even melee limit break it lol = me yelling ffs can a dps plz LB like seriously.
Also remember NOT ENOUGH DPS on ifrit hm nails? LOL
Ppl always assumed it was GG if there were no casters in the party for LB3.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Yeah. It doesn't make sense but it's just what people say, I guess. I haven't been playing MMOs since the beginning so I'm not really sure how it came to be like this but it's what I'm use to. I try not to think of it as Damage per second or else I would be complaining about too. xD

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I have been playing MMO's since the beginning and "DPS" basically came from Ultima Online circa 1997. It predates Google. But at that time it was just referring to gear.

Though I'm not sure when it caught on as a name for damage-dealing players. If you change the time-frame to just before WoW was released, this http://www.lagkills.com/gaming-acronyms.htm shows up circa September 4th 2006. It looks like "DPS class" may have come from EQ more than anything around 2003-2004 from player jargon seen in forums of that age. So somewhere between 2003 and 2006 (Wow was released in 2004) it became common.

I know the OP said this was a rant and there is no need to reply, but I will anyway.

Know that not all of us are like this, OP. I tend to restrict my tips to mechanics, and only if I know someone is new or we wipe. People tend to be open to advice about mechanics when they say they are new or when the group dies. Otherwise, I keep to myself or engage in idle conversation if someone else is. If I feel the need to address a faulty dps rotation in a high level dungeon, and I haven't since the old AK NM days, there's a good chance that I should just leave anyway rather than risk getting into a shouting match over what needs to be done.

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

Well that works both ways there are times you see somebody needs help and you try to suggest something and the reaction is basically "**** off"

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Well that's their problem. I've never run into someone who would be so rude and prideful, but if someone did react that way to me, I'd just do what I can and try to ignore them for the rest of the run. Getting angry at them won't help anyone, especially if they're that stubborn.