Solo dungeons and Gambit system

I game across this : " Yoshida is also still considering removing the class/job restrictions on existing dungeons to allow people to go in solo, or perhaps with a team of NPCs. The NPC system being considered, for example, is to be able to take members of your Grand Company and raise a team or squad that could fight with you. Unfortunately, this new system would not, however, include your Chocobo Companion. They are considering a gambit-system for the Chocobo Companion (and Magitek). This system is pretty definite, but includes a few aspects, and is perhaps a year or so away from release."


I have to say I would love to raise my own Grand Company squad and can't wait for this to be implemented.

I can't see our NPC army happening, atleast not in close future. 'Tis all bout the server data restrictions. :)

But yeah, it would be nice, it would help new players and also it would help old players trying to level up new jobs. I would rather do the dungeon with 3 derpy NPCs than wait 50 minutes in queue (that will most probably happen to low level DPSes when Heavensward comes).

this is an mmorpg (massively multiplayer online role-playing game). do we really need an army of NPCs to turn it into a single-player game?

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Originally Posted by Tint

this is an mmorpg (massively multiplayer online role-playing game). do we really need an army of NPCs to turn it into a single-player game?

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There are many lvl 30- dungeons, some of them are tied to story. Every new job will be probably starting from level 30 as we see now in Heavensward. New players will have to run lvl 30- dungeons to get into Heavensward etc.. There will be a day when most old players will have old jobs 30+ and as new will start on 30, there will be no need to do lvl 30- dungeons for old players. These NPC armies would help new players to get trough old content faster without the need to rely on will of other people to help them.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

There are many lvl 30- dungeons, some of them are tied to story. Every new job will be probably starting from level 30 as we see now in Heavensward. New players will have to run lvl 30- dungeons to get into Heavensward etc.. There will be a day when most old players will have old jobs 30+ and as new will start on 30, there will be no need to do lvl 30- dungeons for old players. These NPC armies would help new players to get trough old content faster without the need to rely on will of other people to help them.

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This is one of the reasons why starting the new jobs at Level 30 was a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Tint

this is an mmorpg (massively multiplayer online role-playing game). do we really need an army of NPCs to turn it into a single-player game?

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When players get gated on group- content that everyone else stopped running way back, then yes, it is needed. Albeit, I'd like them to go to 1 or 2 players with choco companions to add a fun way to level up your 'bo. It's kinda hella boring levelling up on mobs that give about 300 xp per when you need near 3 million xp for next rank ^_^

I used to play WoW before...
When pandaria come out Blizzard introduce boost system... I'm completely mad about it.
They introduce boost to help new player to catch up veterans but the drawback is many boost player at raids who doesn't know anything.

In leveling progression there is story and lore in it, they taught us about the class and learning curve in it for the basic group mechanic just like guildhest.

Later on most of the veterans will no longer go there, so if we have npc that would be nice.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

There are many lvl 30- dungeons, some of them are tied to story. Every new job will be probably starting from level 30 as we see now in Heavensward. New players will have to run lvl 30- dungeons to get into Heavensward etc.. There will be a day when most old players will have old jobs 30+ and as new will start on 30, there will be no need to do lvl 30- dungeons for old players. These NPC armies would help new players to get trough old content faster without the need to rely on will of other people to help them.

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Unless this game becomes very unpopular in the future, I don't see this being a problem. There are still thousands of people running low level dungeons on WoW, and unlike FFXIV, there is ZERO incentive outside of leveling to run low level dungeons. In fact, you flat out can't queue for them if you're above the level, while FFXIV forces us to do them in order to obtain relics or progress the story.

We actually have a similar system in Chocobo races already.

If the group fills not within a specified amount of time, it will get filled up with NPCs.

I do wish they'd just do away with the strict requirements on entering instances. Why do I need a whole group to enter anything? Why can't I just enter with what I have to practice or even clear? Why do I need to find a random person who'll probably eat dirt all fight then walk away with the loot?

Not sure how I feel about having a NPC squad to "solo" dungeons. Would they be stupid? Why would you ever do dungeons with other people again when you can just have all the EXP/loot with none of the drawbacks of actually being solo? More so you'd have incentive to actively level them, seems like an absurd concept in a MMO. Maybe add it when it's actually required, but low level dungeons aren't so abandoned that I think Alter Egos are required just yet...

they could balance dungeons for solo mode , lowering the dmg and HP maybe add a npc that can heal u , no different than some class or main story quests.

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Originally Posted by nuyu11

I used to play WoW before...
When pandaria come out Blizzard introduce boost system... I'm completely mad about it.
They introduce boost to help new player to catch up veterans but the drawback is many boost player at raids who doesn't know anything.

In leveling progression there is story and lore in it, they taught us about the class and learning curve in it for the basic group mechanic just like guildhest.

Later on most of the veterans will no longer go there, so if we have npc that would be nice.

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Yeah, I did the boost thing with Pandaria. Had a lower level paladin that got boosted to 80 and I subsequently had no clue what to do with all these hundreds of new abilities. Took me a good while to figure it out.

Maybe just do it for the pre-50 dungeons. Though not sure how it would work. How would the NPC's position themselves or move from AOE's for alot of the dungeons thats critical to staying alive. It's been a little while since I ran low level, but things like if the tank was an NPC. How would they know to pull the boss into the crystal veil, or pull them near pillars? Things like that, I know there are many more positional or AOE events that have to be done properly or expect a wipe.

I guess the only thing would to be reduced damage output from the monsters, but then do the rewards get reduced also unless in a party of players? Seems like the programming behind it would be a bit taxing. It would be neat to have something like a practice mode or something. Something to get in and get the lay of the land. I know most dungeons are pretty linear but I have taken a few wrong turns here and there and got into some trouble.

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Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

Maybe just do it for the pre-50 dungeons. Though not sure how it would work. How would the NPC's position themselves or move from AOE's for alot of the dungeons thats critical to staying alive. It's been a little while since I ran low level, but things like if the tank was an NPC. How would they know to pull the boss into the crystal veil, or pull them near pillars? Things like that, I know there are many more positional or AOE events that have to be done properly or expect a wipe.=

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That's what I've been worried about, too. I'm curious how the devs would pull it off, but just given how some dungeons and mechanics in general are, it's hard for me to be optimistic.

Like would an NPC tank in Brayflox-NM pull Aiatar out of spit, and make good use of the arena?
Or what if you're in AV and your NPC tank stays in acid puddles, never eats fruit, doesn't avoid Bad Breath, or dies to Coincounter's Heavy Swing? At least a third of the tanks I've seen in there don't even know how to avoid stuff like Swipe and Swing even after I tell them what their AoE range is, and they just keep dying; I'm even more scared of an NPC tank I can't communicate with. I know I've seen bots sort of avoid AoEs by just running away whenever their target's using a skill (even if it's not an attack), but a primitive AI like that could cause more trouble, like aggroing mobs.

Another thing that I dread is the idea of new players learning from bad AI. Would NPCs single-target everything, even against mobs? Would tank AI know how to handle mixed mobs of ranged+melee, or know to Flash/Overpower enough so that a player could AoE? Would healer AI be retarded like a chocobo in healer stance, spamming Choco Medica instead of Choco Cure when there's just one (near-dead) person?

I thought this was something that was actually happening in Heavensward through our GC's? And I don't think t would be too terribly difficult to implement; you would just have to control things through a pet bar and formation. Have an option to move party incase a hazard appears, make them immune to stage hazards that can't be esuna'd. Your healer would never run out of mana either. Hell, this could be a "safe" way for tanks to get comfortable with larger pulls.

In regards to having a tank as an npc, it would just naturally generate more threat than you could in most cases. I think people are too focused on making it feel like an actual party than what it could be; a method to get through a run that requires a absurdly long que.

And to prevent the whole, your not in a GC for the first few dungeons, make it shared with the adventurer's guild. Or just the adventurer's guild, god knows that thing is mostly forgettable.

would be funny if the NPCs are playing better than real people xD (and they will)

I thought this was actually happening in Heavensward too, I also remember a remark about having them loiter around your personal home. You could use the current resistances from the current pets (smn/sch) so that dodging aoe's aren't a major problem.

Though things like moving aiatar outside of poison puddles, breaking bubbles, killing adds and coincounter's aoe's, I do find would be difficult without manual instruction which either mean taking them out from the solo version of the dungeon or giving the player a "npc party" hotbar.

They sort of already have this - if you think of some of the solo fights and FATEs with NPCs in the MSQ or job quests. They're not TOO bad - they do keep you alive once you've hit the HP trigger (in terms of the healers), but they're not all that smart, either. I wonder if they'll be programmed to actually dodge AoEs or if they'll be as derpy as the originals. Can you imagine a Tank NPC? I wonder how they'll pull mobs.
Or position enemies (such as in Amdapor Keep at the last boss for Catastrophe, or reacting to the pulse damage orb, etc.). It's possibly they may restrict such system to the lower level dungeons (such as pre-level 30/35) where placement mechanics don't matter so much.
Which is still fine by me - then I can still level my alts and lower jobs and spam lower dungeons all day :D

If they do this, I wonder if we would have a "team" that we hand pick ("I'd like one paladin, one conjurer and a thaumaturge with a side of suicidal tendencies, please"), or if we're just given the trifecta at random (one run you get a pugilist, another run you get a rogue, etc).
I'd love it even more if you get like a personal GC team and assign them classes... mixed with the ability to pick out looks like retainers >.> I'd dig that - and hug em and squeeze em and not care how stupid they were.
Or, maybe even level them like the Chocobos o________o TEAM DERP 4 LYFE.
(though, as far as looks go, I can sorta see it being more like the housing NPC scrolls. Pick a race and gender and boomf. It is what it is)

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Originally Posted by Firepower

Though things like moving aiatar outside of poison puddles, breaking bubbles, killing adds and coincounter's aoe's, I do find would be difficult without manual instruction which either mean taking them out from the solo version of the dungeon or giving the player a "npc party" hotbar.

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Oooo good idea. Too bad I didn't read all the posts before derping about that same point z_z; (placement specific mobs/bosses/etc)

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Originally Posted by Firepower

I thought this was actually happening in Heavensward too, I also remember a remark about having them loiter around your personal home.

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Then, you can yell at them, all day, to 'get off the lawn', 'You break it, you bought it!', etc while shaking your fist xD
Dang kids these days.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Not sure how I feel about having a NPC squad to "solo" dungeons. Would they be stupid?

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To be honest, when it comes to sub-30 dungeons, NPCs could be blithering morons and still give you clears. At those levels, there's little in the way of fancy mechanics, and mobs are so gentle that DPS can, and often do, tank them with minimal stress on the healer.

Dungeons higher than 30, on the other hand, could be a different story. Particularly in dungeons like Dzemael or Aurum Vale, but even dungeons like Stone Vigil and Qarn have some (relatively speaking) fancy mechanics to them that a derpy NPC would have to have some pretty clever programming to deal with. However, I'd imagine that level 30+ dungeons are going to be much more active with players for much longer, due to the fact that the new jobs start at level 30. There's not as great a need for the Derp Squad there...

Ooh, all this talk of derp... wouldn't it be kinda cool if your Derp Squad actually contains members from Derplander's crew? It'd be a way to finally integrate them into the game proper, rather than just as trailer fodder...

Err...

If I remember correctly, in one of the latest letters from the devs, it was mentioned that the DF would be revamped on HWs release to admit incomplete parties into dungeons, for example duos or trios for 4-man content, or even entering Coil with a 7-man party. Later on allowing others to enter your party in progress.

This is one of the features I am personally looking forward to from HW.

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Err...

If I remember correctly, in one of the latest letters from the devs, it was mentioned that the DF would be revamped on HWs release to admit incomplete parties into dungeons, for example duos or trios for 4-man content, or even entering Coil with a 7-man party. Later on allowing others to enter your party in progress.

This is one of the features I am personally looking forward to from HW.

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It sounds like a duty finder option similar to join in progress.

"Players will be able to undertake duties with smaller pre-made parties using a new option in the Duty Finder. For example, you’ll be able to enter a dungeon with just two players. We’ll make further adjustments for this so new players can follow as well. With this feature you’ll also be able to challenge the Coil of Bahamut with 7 players."
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/a...1&d=1429781125

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

It sounds like a duty finder option similar to join in progress.

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Expecting the worst, yea, maybe.
But I still hold the hope that me and my friend will be at long last able to duo duns whenever we want.

Not to pull FFxi into this, but it could be similar to their Ego system they have. In that you the player have to go recruit NPCs to go dungeon dive with you. I would start it off at an early level to give new players a chance to still experience early dungeons but as dungeon become harder it would be up to the player to seek better NPCs if they can not get a real player to help.

I believe such a system already exists. Called final fantasy 1-10. I do not understand why dev time focuses on solo content when the game is an mmo. The focus should be on people banding together to overcome obstacles in the game.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

I believe such a system already exists. Called final fantasy 1-10. I do not understand why dev time focuses on solo content when the game is an mmo. The focus should be on people banding together to overcome obstacles in the game.

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As noted by Vlady, SE isn't unfamiliar with the usage of NPCs as party members. They could probably implement, if not transfer NPC programming from the more recent Final Fantasy games with real-time RPG combat. It would also make Grand Companies far more relevant. On the other hand, it may mean more 'characters' to gear. But it may let them resolve the issue with people skipping cutscenes; a fair amount of storytelling that is used in Final Fantasy involves mid-instance cutscenes, of which are understandably unpopular at the moment.

Maybe we could create our own plucky squad of misfits that could give our own characters more character.

You misunderstand. Any implementation of npcs interacting in dungeons will hurt and segregate the community even more.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

I believe such a system already exists. Called final fantasy 1-10. I do not understand why dev time focuses on solo content when the game is an mmo. The focus should be on people banding together to overcome obstacles in the game.

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From what I understand of community that wants this, myself included, it'd be so people can rerun old content without having to wait for the queue times, which will be even worse as time goes on and newer content is released. Whether this is for farming glamour gear, newbies progressing through story, or spiritbonding. Just because this is an MMO, doesn't mean EVERYTHING has to be done in a party.

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Originally Posted by Gralna

From what I understand of community that wants this, myself included, it'd be so people can rerun old content without having to wait for the queue times, which will be even worse as time goes on and newer content is released. Whether this is for farming glamour gear, newbies progressing through story, or spiritbonding. Just because this is an MMO, doesn't mean EVERYTHING has to be done in a party.

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Agree 100%. As content continues to come through, older content will become less attended. Making it so people can solo this older content would make it relavent to some degree.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

You misunderstand. Any implementation of npcs interacting in dungeons will hurt and segregate the community even more.

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We already have similar content several times in the MSQ and class/job quests. They're just much shorter than dungeons. NPCs would never be made as powerful as players, so the runs would likely be slower, but still faster than waiting 30 minutes in the queue.

What I want is, this system will encourage new player to play tank and healer.
Many people afraid to play that role because of the sense of responsibility.

Bit less stress if you can play with dumb NPC, but learning in progress.
Same like play DOTA with Bot.

If they do add npcs as partyable "players" for duties, i hope it will be locked for low level duties, a lot of players will opt for npcs over actual players if the npcs are good And can handle more complex fights (such as aiatar as some mentioned previously, brayflox longstop's final boss).

I also hope our retainers would be the ones fighting with us. Will be kind of like using our adventuring fellows in FFXI (and trusts... and whatever the newest one is [alter ego?]).

It might be necessary to have npcs in the future, considering most people probably don't run low level roulettes unless their doing animus and whatnot.