What do you want from your tank in a dungeon?

The basics aside - Hold enmity, don't suck etc..

I have been asking my PUGs if they want experience points, treasure or quick runs. Out of the last ~80 dungeons I have ran, I have only received a response twice. Once for exp, once for a quick run. Should I keep asking? I had assumed people would want a say, but apparently not?

I ask with autotranslate, so that is not an issue.

Unless specified by the party i run fast runs. If they want me to run long then I will but otherwise I just assume people want in and out of a dungeon.

The only exceptions where I actually ask is if i somehow end up in AV or DD, then I'll assume people want everything dead.

If your talking 50+ run them fast all the time.

Good pickup, just pre 50 I am referring to.

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Originally Posted by Carvaka

I have only received a response twice.

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Sounds normal. I ask all the time also. Sometimes I can't even get a "hello" out as someone is already charging in. Then I always love the "its up to you, you're the tank" responses. Some are so brain dead at this point can't even bother to think about what they want to do. I just keep on asking, sometimes we have fun and not look at it as "work" but a game to play.

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Originally Posted by Carvaka

Good pickup, just pre 50 I am referring to.

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Then just run the shortest way. If the rest of the party want a full sweep... then they will speak up. 99% of the time though, people just want in and out of the dungeon. Theres not enough mobs in most dungeons for it to be amazingly efficient.

If I'm on my level 50 in low level roulette, I don't mind it being quick clear. If I'm not on level 50, I'd prefer a full clear. But if everyone else is up in the 50ies, I rarely ask and just go with the flow. If the tank asked though I'd answer my current preference.

Honestly I would prefer quick runs even as leveling. It is so much more efficient to have a quick run and get back to the outside world. The extra pulls don't yield the payoffs for the time spent vs the time spent doing fates, leves, etc. You can do 4-10 leves in 15-30 minutes depending on the zone and yield half a level. AV or DD run takes 30 minutes for the average group and for the most part doesn't yield half a level.

As a Tank, the most frequent request I receive is "Speed Run Pls", which I am more than happy to provide. Nothing pushes your play skills like mass pulls, and next run trying to merge even bigger mass pulls, makes the game less "cookie-cutter", and it's more enjoyable to push your character/gamer skills to the limit.

All I ask is that tanks don't do a dead stop between pulls unless the healer is completely OOM.

(this never happens for me unless I'm the one tanking)

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Originally Posted by Carvaka

I have been asking my PUGs if they want experience points, treasure or quick runs. Out of the last ~80 dungeons I have ran, I have only received a response twice. Once for exp, once for a quick run. Should I keep asking? I had assumed people would want a say, but apparently not?

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I HATE this. No one ever responds, so I default to a quick run. And without fail, the lowest level person always starts pulling the extra adds for XP, usually causing a near/actual wipe.

Makes me want to become a total dick in this game. Every time I try to be nice I get spit on, and any time I have even a slight blow up, I get 7 commendations. Its like everyone is trying to train me to play like an ass.

In the current state of the game, it's more likely players are after quick clears because they've been through there several times and really most low level dungeons are braindead as hell, and EXP or no it's just more bearable to get in, get done, and get out.

But that'd be my expectation. If people start running off and pulling other mobs, pull off them once and save them; if they keep doing it, let them go die. If they bitch, tell them you asked and nobody said anything, so you went with what you wanted. You don't have to be rude about it, just firm; and if they do end up asking for a full clear, then sure.

I always default to "clear everything" when I play as a warrior.
Frankly I get more enjoyment out of killing everything in the dungeon, regardless of the time it takes to clear it out.


Never had anyone specifically request to do a speed run.

For the tank to say hello.
Lol usualy i get tanks tht just stay silent.

If you're a speed running tank, don't just sit there and let mobs hit you over and over with their faster run speed while only having 1/3 of them held to your name. It makes it impossible for healers to cure, refresh stoneskin / adlo, etc. without also dragging near instant death our way once the pull settles. Shield lob / Tomahawk things as you run, or learn the placements needed to drive-by flash / overpower. It's the difference between someone having to play catch-up healing all pull long or someone having the circumstances needed to join in DPS with some potentially huge numbers.

And don't hold one hale and healthy mob while running to the next group. It kills the natural regeneration ticks tremendously. [/pet peeves]

My tanking phrases for Lv.50 dungeons as follow:
"Hi"
"Please do stop me if you have any question, want a quick break, or want to increase/reduce pull size."

its the same for Low level (sub Lv.50), but I add "Full?, Fast? or Fair?"
Priority goes to DPS to choose, I do full runs for 1st DPS class they have.

My biggest issue is specific to paladins when I'm on BLM. Get the mobs in a cluster, not a circle around you. If I could cast Fire II on you, I could hit them all with AoE, but with one in front of you and two behind you I can hit at most two of them.

I only see it on paladins due to flash, warriors typically get them in a nice pile for overpower.

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Originally Posted by KikoriL

And don't hold one hale and healthy mob while running to the next group. It kills the natural regeneration ticks tremendously. [/pet peeves]

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What do you mean by this one? I have started moving to the next zone when I only have one mob left, throwing tomahawks over shoulder as I go. Does this disrupt the healing role?

There is different mana-regen rate for being in combat mode, and not being in combat mode. Not letting the combat mode end when running to the next group ensures that healer who was out of mana, will be out of mana. While, if the combat is let to end before next pull, the mana comes swooshing back on the "out of combat" rate.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

My biggest issue is specific to paladins when I'm on BLM. Get the mobs in a cluster, not a circle around you. If I could cast Fire II on you, I could hit them all with AoE, but with one in front of you and two behind you I can hit at most two of them.

I only see it on paladins due to flash, warriors typically get them in a nice pile for overpower.

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This is typical mistake. PLD's should be facing the mobs in a single direction regardless. Usually this isnt learned until someone says something or they begin doing speed runs in the upper levels.

I will usually try and run a full run if I see DPS who are below the cap for the dungeon. I have tried the method of asking people's opinions, but then you get those who are, as previously stated "brain dead", or you have differing opinions and then people get angry when you don't agree with their side. As far as gaining XP goes though, I will usually run longer dungeons for the DPS since their que times are so bad. It also depends on how good the players are at their roles... if the players are really good, I will be more willing to do a longer run. If they are doing terrible and won't accept any constructive criticism, I'll try and finish it quickly.

I don't do many speed runs though in either scenario. I'm not superb at them and a lot of DPS and healers aren't either in the lower level dungeons.

I always just proceed on the assumption of a quick run unless someone asks for a full clear. Most of the time the rest of the group can't even be bothered to acknowledge me saying "hey" at the start of a dungeon, so I just get on with pulling unless the healer asks me to slow down.

Honestly, as a dps, I don't care. I'd rather the tank checked with his healer to see what they want. Speed run? Goferit, I'll keep up, as long as the tank and healer are ok, so am I.

Right now? I only get on for expert and then get off. So, the quicker I can get through that, the better. When Heavensward comes out, I'll want more patient tanks.

Depending on level of duty and all but at 50 pulls of 3-6 groups maybe more if your confident and 2 have good parry and hp.
Nothing worse than a paper tank. Also as a pld make sure you level cnj to 34 for stoneskin so healer can dps too.

As Tank, Healer, and DPS I prefer "quick" runs pre-50 dungeons IE don't have to clear everything. I'm not opposed to full clears but the little bit of extra exp doesn't interest me as much. Even though achievments don't matter much that actually would matter to me more if someone said they wanted a full clear so they could go in every room for them.

99% of the time it's going to be a quick clear. There have been times when I've had a member ask for an exp/full clear, and I'm happy to do it for them. I really don't like how some of you have referred to people as 'Brain Dead' for the response given when asked what kind of run they'd like. Honestly sometimes people don't really care what kind of run you do, or maybe they don't want to speak up because they don't want to be a bother to anyone else who is looking for a quick run. To call them 'Brain Dead' or think any less of them for that isn't accurate. I've been told 'whatever you'd like to do' when I'm tanking, and so then that's exactly what I do...(which is always a quick run). If they were to be upset with that then it's the fault of them for not asking.

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Originally Posted by Carvaka

What do you mean by this one? I have started moving to the next zone when I only have one mob left, throwing tomahawks over shoulder as I go. Does this disrupt the healing role?

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Sida answered it here, but just in case you're looking for my name and missed the reply.
Mana and TP regenerate far quicker when out of combat when in combat. Even if it's only a few steps between the mob being fought and the next in line, the time DPS and Healers can get to regenerate a couple ticks of points while the tank settles a pull is invaluable, especially for resource-extensive AoE users like WHM's Holy or MNK's Rockbreaker.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Amber

Depending on level of duty and all but at 50 pulls of 3-6 groups maybe more if your confident and 2 have good parry and hp.
Nothing worse than a paper tank. Also as a pld make sure you level cnj to 34 for stoneskin so healer can dps too.

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Parry isn't at all required for speedruns. The idea is to burn things down very quickly, which means both tank DPS is important and tank DPS for enmity generation is needed to keep up with such things as a Foe's buffed Flare.
A self-stoneskinning tank in a speedrun is highly unlikely due to the fact that almost any speedrun pull in the game will consist of gather mobs, pop cooldowns, dodge aoe's (highlighted for spell interrupt emphases), and generate AoE enmity to avoid losing six enemies to the high DPS going out (which means a PLD's MP goes elsewhere). Anything under speedrun-sized pulls, a self-stoneskinning tank COULD help ease a rookie healer's burden, but that's a short lived window of practice for the healer.
And healer DPS isn't dependent on a tank's self-stoneskin. Especially in WHM's case where Stance-Holy-Stoneskin the tank during the stun-Holy-Holy-Swiftcast Holy can drop mobs' health severely while keeping the tank safe.

As much as i would expect from healers and dps, just do the dungeons enjoyably with mindset that people arent running it because they are forced to, but simply because it's an enjoyable dungeons to have fun.. By the meaning of this would be that i'm not against sac pulling, big pull, as such, but if wipes happen, i expect players not to start rage quitting or simply blaming someone without even fidning a way to make the party getting better

I'm noticing a trend of tanks that will fight a single pack for like 3 GCDs worth and then immediately speedrun as if they just remembered something. Most dps would have wasted cooldowns as now the mobs are chasing to the next camp. So yeah if you're wanting to speedrun, just make sure you know that you want it before you start.

Lower levels I will usually ask. Sometimes you have the jerks who demand fast runs and all I have to say to that is sorry, should have gone tank then.
Usually tanks set the pace.

Pre 50? Keep aggro, don't stand in AoEs you can get out of and don't pull extras except someone directly asked for it.

For lvl 50 speedruns with AoE DPS: What i want more PLD to do?

PLEASE sprint while pulling - you will NOT need your damn TP if you do masspulls because you have AoE DPS and will need to flash to keep aggro not lolhalone when you got 6+ mobs. After you're confident you will not loose aggro on that pull please fill your MP with riot blade so we don't need to stand around like idiots while we wait for your MP to go back up.

Why use sprint? Easy - so you dont drop to 50% (or less) of your health while you're gathering the mobs. Plus the influx of dmg when you stop at your designation is not a extreme spike but a low influx because mobs come to run to you one by one in a nice chain, by then the dps are ready too and can get going without having to hold back the slightest.

hold hate...and that's about it.

oh, and 'not die.' i'm sure that's the healers domain however.