Fixing Our Image

Let's face it, as DPS's we don't exactly inspire the greatest of confidence in the party. We're seen as lazy, impatient, inatentive and at times downright incompotent, amongst other things. Between the parser talks and the entitled DPS topic I'd say it's time for an image overhaul. Besides the obvious things like know the fights and pay attention to mechanics, what else do you think can be done to bring some esteem back to the role?

If you know you're doing your job correctly, you shouldn't even be affected by those comments and threads. Keep your head up,keep on playing, improve yourself and learn to accept criticism. It applies to all job roles really not just dps. There's really nothing to do anyways about horrible dps, tanks or healers. You know the saying: "you can lead a horse to a water pond but you can't make it drink"

I'll bring some controversy to the table, cause I like discussing topics with an open mind.

• The coolest jobs are all the DPS Jobs.
  
• The Jobs with the least responsibilities are DPS jobs (Excluding Bard)
  
• Casual/inexperienced/newer players will pick DPS jobs cause they're cooler
  
• Lazier players pick DPS jobs because they're Easy
  
• No one wants the burden of a tank role
  
• No one wants to be a Jesus/Jesusette and keep his/her party alive, too much responsibility
  
• Thus, there's a larger influx of players who are newer, casual, inexperienced, lazy, "play for fun" who are DPS than other Jobs. As a result, this brings down the overall quality of the DPS Jobs.
  
• Even in Raids, it's impossible for the average player to gauge the performance of the DPS, with the exception of a Death. Many players aren't like myself who uses a.... Pen and Notepad, writing down every hit a player does, in every instance. Thus, a lot of DPS think they're doing "Fine", until I pull out the numbers from my Notepad.
  
• Another thing, all of the better players usually play within their Statics/Linkshells/FCs (Personally, I rarely party finder content). This may be why it's harder to find good DPS/Tanks/Healers out in the open.

As a consequence of all of the mentioned statements, the overall image of us DPS Jobs seems "poor". Personally, I think it's fairly balanced and if you want a competitive edge, or wish to get things done, you're always better off playing with proven players or players who you know (via linkshells etc). This applies, no matter your Job.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

[*]Even in Raids, it's impossible for the average player to gauge the performance of the DPS, with the exception of a Death. Many players aren't like myself who uses a.... Pen and Notepad, writing down every hit a player does, in every instance. Thus, a lot of DPS think they're doing "Fine", until I pull out the numbers from my Notepad.

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Wow you use a pen and a notepad? I just look at the battle log and do the math as it comes along! Please get up to my level :3

If you like the role and enjoy knowing the full extent of the class you are using, dealing most damage while not hindering the party with unnecessary damage/death/aggro should only be natural. If the community still doesn't give a damn that I (as a DPS) contribute to quicker dungeon runs/meeting tight DPS checks, so be it. What we lacked till the very last patches was tight DPS checks - and FCoB provided decent challenges to that regard. Thing is, it's a "niche" content until it's nerfed - so people rarely experience DPS not doing their best unless they are downright AFK.

As for my experience in dungeons/24man raids, healers are generally more passive unless the rest of the party has a deathwish (aka swiftcast raise) and as a tank the only real pressure is choosing which cooldowns in which moments, but if you know the fight like the back of your hand you don't even need to be constantly aware. I actually heard my healers say that they'd find it harder to DPS efficiently than to heal, although I don't really believe that. And let's not even mention how hard is tanking in there.

So the only thing we can do on our part is do our job.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

• The Jobs with the least responsibilities are DPS jobs (Excluding Bard)
• Lazier players pick DPS jobs because they're Easy
• No one wants to be a Jesus/Jesusette and keep his/her party alive, too much responsibility
• Thus, there's a larger influx of players who are newer, casual, inexperienced, lazy, "play for fun" who are DPS than other Jobs. As a result, this brings down the overall quality of the DPS Jobs.

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Just wanted to single this bit out because it's kinda funny... My fiance (we've been duo'ing MMOs together for years) decided to take a switch coming to FFXIV and play a DPS because, generally, they are the easier of the classes and have less responsibility. But very quickly playing this game found that a lot of an encounter's success rests on the DPS not sucking.

So I think for this game, the idea that DPS is the lazy, easy option isn't accurate.

Back to the topic at hand and to parrot the others here; just pay attention. That's the biggest thing. I know it's real easy to tunnel vision and just focus on damaging (I fall into that when DPSing now and then too) but this is a game where situational awareness is extremely important for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

The Jobs with the least responsibilities are DPS jobs (Excluding Bard)

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Bard has 3 songs, and they only play 1 of them, 2 if it's a long fight. That's barely a step above smn/blm using eye for eye, virus, apocatastasis. And about on par with monk using mantra/dragon kick, or ninja using trick attack/goad. And it doesn't even come close to dragoon using their... uh, nvm.

Let tanks and healers complete duties by themselves mwahaha

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Bard has 3 songs, and they only play 1 of them, 2 if it's a long fight. That's barely a step above smn/blm using eye for eye, virus, apocatastasis. And about on par with monk using mantra/dragon kick, or ninja using trick attack/goad. And it doesn't even come close to dragoon using their... uh, nvm.

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As a brd in t13 consistently i use foe, mb, mantra, as well as manage certain mechanics, and if completely necessary i have also has to armys paeon before.

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Originally Posted by AikoSachi

As a brd in t13 consistently i use foe, mb, mantra, as well as manage certain mechanics, and if completely necessary i have also has to armys paeon before.

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Everyone has to manage mechanics, brd has it easier than every other job so you can leave that part out. Mantra is 1-2 times a fight, songs are just paying attention and playing when needed. The harder the fight, the more useful the support skills are. That goes for all dps jobs (except drg). It still amounts to using one GCD or off GCD ability every minute or so.

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Originally Posted by HexWeaver

Let tanks and healers complete duties by themselves mwahaha

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Well i don't see how that would be an issue.

Seriously. You want to improve dps reputation ? You can't really do that. What you can do is improve YOUR reputation as a dps. I'm sorry but when you do 20% less than what you could do, usually i decide it's my lucky day... A high number of DPS push less than 50% of what they could, and during a number of PF FCOB runs, i can't remember the last t10 or t11 where i did not have between 1 and 3 people pushing less than 350 dps with echo. Not saying that ALL dps are bad, obviously. Just saying -- there is a high number of them that just don't give a fuck.

That being said i also see lazy tanks and bad healers. But those are usually spotted quickly (well, healers at least) and stand out much more easily. DPS on the other hand are allowed to get away with whatever crap they want as long as things die -- and with i130, echo, and a couple of people carrying their asses, let me tell you, DPS in FCOB can get away with A LOT of shit.

imo there are a lot of "niche" abilities that dps have available, by niche I mean they can probably get by without ever using... but if they do use, then it's a sign they know what they're doing. Things like blm teleport - in most content you can get away with never using this move, but if I see a blm using it, I'll know they're doing all they can to be at the top of their game.

As dps, it's easy to be average, but hard to stand out.
And parsers aside, their are other things that show up bad dps, brd's that never sing anything, nin's that never goad, etc

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Originally Posted by Casper

Well i don't see how that would be an issue.

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Memories...

Just don't suck.

All classes can look good.

Also on the flip side of the coin, its really, really easy to be a "good" healer if the rest of the group is good - if noone is taking damage, well, you can afk cure the tank.

Similarly, a craptacular tank just going 1-2-3 can be saved by a good healer or if dps can burn through enrages etc even if the tank knows nothing about cooldowns.

All roles can suck pretty bad.

After the sheer amount of people of various classes in Final Coil gear who still sucked, I can say that it's by far not always DPS who are bad players. Statistically, DPS is the most played class, so naturally most bad people you encounter will happen to be on DPS at that time.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

After the sheer amount of people of various classes in Final Coil gear who still sucked, I can say that it's by far not always DPS who are bad players. Statistically, DPS is the most played class, so naturally most bad people you encounter will happen to be on DPS at that time.

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As said, i don't think that to be true. The problem is the feedback loop. When healers or tanks make mistakes, usually the group will wipe. If adds were not taken, the tank will have no choice but to realize he messed up. If tanks died, either the tank messed up their CD or healer focused on the wrong thing. Not ALL tanks and healers will take notice, but a significant proportion will.

When a dps make mistakes repeatedly, due to the absence of feedback if he doesn't use a parser, he will most likely bo completely oblivious to those mistakes. There is literally zero chance for him to realize he does not do things properly without someone stepping in and telling him that he does things wrong, which will end badly for the group more likely than not.

Over time, what you end up with is a situation where tanks and healers get much better at their respective roles than DPS at theirs, because of the difference in natural feedback. Not all tanks and healers will be great, far from it, and not all DPS will suck balls, obviously, but statistically speaking ? Yeah there are a lot more DPS that not only suck at their job, but are completely clueless about it, compared to tanks and healers, for which a much greater proportion of their respective playerbase will have at least some understanding of how they should play their role.

^ Yes.

I play both a DPS job and Tank main... I will tell you I get alot more people angry at me on my tank. It's just the nature of the beast... other than the DPS dying from mechanics I have almost no way to accurately track who is doing better than the other guy. I'm just trying to make their jobs as easy as possible. Until there is some way for me the accurately tell who is doing better than the other guy ( without keying through the battle log) then I simply won't know.

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Originally Posted by HexWeaver

Let tanks and healers complete duties by themselves mwahaha

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Do it all the time as the DPS are usually dead and ain't worth reviving. ;)

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Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

Do it all the time as the DPS are usually dead and ain't worth reviving. ;)

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Maybe that's the issue. Maybe DPS lacks a certain...necessity that makes people want to excel at them. I mean, tanks and healers have a clear importance. If they fail it's basically a guaranteed wipe, but DPS just...hit stuff.

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Originally Posted by FrejyaAthenes

Maybe that's the issue. Maybe DPS lacks a certain...necessity that makes people want to excel at them. I mean, tanks and healers have a clear importance. If they fail it's basically a guaranteed wipe, but DPS just...hit stuff.

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I fix my image by giving 110% towards maximizing dps regardless of content. I pop food/pots for every end game encounter wether it's t13 or garuda ex, study ways to do more damage (by maybe delaying an AOE ability for an add phase, etc) and most importantly, providing feedback to the dpsers that aren't doing too hot. I feed off the compliments I get for the 600+ parses, and use that as motivation to try to do better.

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Originally Posted by FrejyaAthenes

Let's face it, as DPS's we don't exactly inspire the greatest of confidence in the party. We're seen as lazy, impatient, inatentive and at times downright incompotent, amongst other things.

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These stereotypes stop the moment you enter a raid (a serious raid, not CT) or static. DPS that raid are generally more mindful about self improvement, playing to their best, considering how their performance impacts the group, and so on.

Unfortunately, there are always going to be those that sit in the Cloud of Darkness arena with a weapon sheathed or only auto attacking. Or those that use non DPS accessories, or basically don't care about others in their group. It's not really something that can be fixed wide scale. Just be the best DPS you can be-- not just in terms of output, but in helping out with mechanics, using those utility abilities, and so on. The stereotype sucks but you will earn respect by being competent yourself.

Well... other than DPSing like mad-dogs, they are looking for efficiency.
Look for a way to always contribute to the party, each job has their own way to do so but:

- If you happen to pull aggro to yourself dont hesitate to pop a defensive CD.
+ If target that went on you is almost dead, burn it down, but if it isnt and its too dangerous, run to the Tank's side and change target so they can take it back.
- Be mindful of the Tank you got, DPSing like a mad-dog is good and all, but if the Tank isnt geared up to Tank your DPS then the Healer will be in trouble and that will jeopardize the party's safety. Sometimes Gears > Skills, after all.

By the end of the day, we are just spendable pawns :v

I've gotten most of commendations as a dps (NIN mostly). I think there are people who put 100% in most of the time and people who just float by but I don't care what the image of dps in general is because that isn't something I can or care to control. I do what I need to do to the best of my ability to do it.

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Well... other than DPSing like mad-dogs, they are looking for efficiency.
Look for a way to always contribute to the party, each job has their own way to do so but:

- If you happen to pull aggro to yourself dont hesitate to pop a defensive CD.
+ If target that went on you is almost dead, burn it down, but if it isnt and its too dangerous, run to the Tank's side and change target so they can take it back.
- Be mindful of the Tank you got, DPSing like a mad-dog is good and all, but if the Tank isnt geared up to Tank your DPS then the Healer will be in trouble and that will jeopardize the party's safety. Sometimes Gears > Skills, after all.

By the end of the day, we are just spendable pawns :v

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I think you mean expendable. Otherwise, good advice.