So over time as War, I've kinda embraced my role as off tank. Getting hybrid accessories, flirting with the minimum HP, giving some of my DPS a run for their money... and now that we have 13 on farm.. finding myself abit of an after thought these days.
Not sure why I'm bothering with Str Pots or food to try to maximize and be forgotten while our Sword and Board gets props for covering during earth shakers and such.
meh. Kinda miss when content was new, and I was making bards in t10 question their skill when I was out dpsing them. Now I feel a like bit of a second class tank now that my dps seems less of a requirement to push or clear.
Hmm.. Off tank woes.
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04-25-2015, 04:52 AMSteadyHmm.. Off tank woes.
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04-25-2015, 04:54 AMRiepah
Sounds more like a problem with your static than your class.
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04-25-2015, 05:15 AMDhex
Try main tanking stuff as Warrior?
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04-25-2015, 11:23 AMJim_Berry
Meh, I don't try to be a hybrid tank. If I want to deal heavy damage, I have BRD, NIN, and DRG for that.
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04-25-2015, 05:36 PMCidolfas86To be honest there's almost no reason not try and at least do a few hyrbid accessories these days even if you don't do a full set if your serious about tanking. You don't even have to do the platinum stuff if you want, though i90 isn't as good as the platinum stuff and you'll hold better hate as a result. Most of the content outside of FCOB doesn't really require a full set of VIT anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_Berry
Sounds to me like a slight case of feeling underappreciated. I mean even if your dps has been devalued from nerfs and echo buffs I wouldn't see that as a reason to back down from feeling like your doing a good job. I guess my advice would be to reevaluate why your doing what your doing and go from there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady
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04-25-2015, 08:09 PMZaftIf you need a pat on the back whenever you do a good job in order to play a class, you might want to re-evaluate your situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady
It's everybody's job to contribute to DPS, not just the DPS classes. I wear full STR accessories for every fight other than T13. You can get pretty close to BRDs, especially if you use little things like holmganging T10 charge instead of swapping into defiance to keep up your DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_Berry
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04-25-2015, 08:37 PMWhistonBRD, NIN and DRG have a difficult time taking an Akh Morn to the face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_Berry
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04-25-2015, 09:38 PMmonochromicorn"Im a tank, I don't need to do damage" people with your thought process make me laugh. Every hate generating move is based off strength.harder hits=better and faster hate. Pushing dps to the max can garner numbers that can shame dps. I've seen opening pld combos break 570. "Tanks don't have high dps" that's because people don't know how to spec it right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_Berry
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04-26-2015, 12:39 AMNightz_EndAnd problem solved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhex
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04-26-2015, 04:50 AMDonjoAdditional Strength beyond what left side gear provides is in no way necessary to hold hate against people of similar gear to yours. Despite what people may think, holding hate is more about efficient use of enmity generating abilities than DPS output. If a tank absolutely cannot hold hate without investing into Strength, they ought to step back and look at what they're doing wrong with their gameplay instead of brute forcing the problem. That way, all facets of their play will improve.Quote:
Originally Posted by monochromicorn
"Tanks don't have high DPS": This was the intention of SE when designing them and designing fights, one can argue. If they truly were meant to be capable of shaming DPS, then they wouldn't have such high multipliers on their enmity generating moves. They'd just need to have x2 and perhaps x3 at maximum instead of x6 and x10. If they were meant to be stacking Strength, then they'd be able to roll Need on accessories that have Strength instead of just accessories that have Vitality. What we have here with the Strength Tank phenomenon is the result of the dev's severe inability to balance encounters around Tanks and Healers. They did just fine with balancing DPS around each other and around expected damage numbers for encounters, but just look at how much Final Coil snapped like a twig just as soon as people dedicated Tanks and Healers to doing more damage. The obvious conclusion is that the fights were not designed with such contributions from Tanks and Healers in mind.
But, of course, we have to look into why such contributions were possible in the first place. After all, these fights were supposed to be gear checks... right? Think about how embarrassed the devs must have been when they saw people clear Final Coil on Week 1, in i111.5 gear, by reducing Tank HP and/or having the Healers do less healing. The conclusion here is that not only were the fights not doing enough damage to Tanks, they weren't doing enough damage in general to require near-full time attention of two healers. But Turn 13 was certainly doing enough damage to non-Tanks that people needed plenty of i120 and i130 left side gear to survive, right? Nah, crafted accessories were a thing. And that's three strikes against the battle team. What happened to the guys that Blue Gartr were lauding for excellently tuned encounters while running the First Coil?
Here's hoping that the sheer amount of time being dedicated to Heavensward allows for the battle team to develop more encounters that push everyone to their limits instead of just the DPS. -
04-26-2015, 05:10 AMSpookyGhost
So, I actually like the focus on STR as tanks... to an extent. I think for progression it's really silly that you can forego any amount of HP for more damage, simply because the fight should be tuned well enough that that shouldn't be possible. Flatten and Akh Morn both hit pretty hard, and most PLDs pushing for world first wore full VIT accessories... however, every WAR worth their salt was wearing Ruby. As an OT in a fight that didn't outright force a tank swap and only needed to tank hard hitting adds for all of 10s which you have strong CDs for... max VIT wasn't really necessary. I think Savage 6 and 9 were designed really well in this regard, especially during early progression for them. Most people still used Ruby but it had the right idea. The simple solution to this is just have a forced tank swap and have damage high enough that you need gear to live through it, even with proper CD usage.
That said, I think STR being a focus once you do have more than enough VIT to survive the big hits and a crit auto after comfortably is a good thing. Contributing to raid DPS once you've got the gear to manage it gives tanks versatility and allows for focus on either more damage or more survivability, depending on what the current encounter calls for. This isn't really a thing at the moment since nothing calls for a full VIT set. Hopefully Alex Savage will have tight gear checks for tanks, and I imagine that's the direction they're going if they intend on groups not clearing it week 1. -
04-26-2015, 02:03 PMKuurei
TBH sounds like the Battle team needs to get their act together. Peeps in my FC have actually started making Final Coil sound like a joke when I hear them talking about it, and we're not even a hardcore raiding FC far as it seems, we only have about twenty or so peeps I ever see talking about raiding at all.