Ooh... new patch notes! ... Wait...

So, new patch time... Final Coil of Bahamut gets sent to the cesspool that is duty finder.

Cool, so can I now gear my character with Poetics stuff, to get my item level up...?

... No? Oh, okay...

... I haven't even beaten Raffelesia yet... Mainly for story...

C'mon, let me get all my ironworks gear!

Uh huh, you know if duty finder is such a cesspool for you the option remains not to use it. They haven't taken that away from you.
Though in my opinion, doing any coil on duty finder is like juggling grenades. It only takes one live one to ruin your whole day.

Still, options are options. Even if they're not good ones.

Well, go beat Rafflesia then. That should be perfectly doable nowadays. If you were stuck in t5 or t9 I'd understand the frustration because the mechanics of those two make them an endless pain if not everyone knows what they're doing, but t6 isn't so hard to learn. Have the group deciding what to do when the yellow stuff pops up above someone - if either only that person or everybody else moves behind Rafflesia - hit ESC or stop attacking and moving manually when Blighted Bouquet is being cast, and make sure to kill the Bulb if it spawns in the middle. After that it's just an easy DPS race while one tank gets the snails on him and the other tank holds Rafflesia and the DPS spank her.

I, for one, am very happy for this change and would actually prefer if new raids were put in DF from the very start, just without the echo. Finding a group is often enough a worse pain than trying to learn the fight, and while DF may give you bad people, it may also give you good ones. It sure beats sitting in PF for ages to get the same result.

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Originally Posted by otarolgam

So, new patch time... Final Coil of Bahamut gets sent to the cesspool that is duty finder.

Cool, so can I now gear my character with Poetics stuff, to get my item level up...?

... No? Oh, okay...

... I haven't even beaten Raffelesia yet... Mainly for story...

C'mon, let me get all my ironworks gear!

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I... don't really understand your problem. o_o

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Originally Posted by Defteros

I... don't really understand your problem. o_o

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They're complaining that Poetics wasn't uncapped, I guess?

I dunno why people keep expecting that to happen.

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Cool, so can I now gear my character with Poetics stuff, to get my item level up...?

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Yes you can gear your character with Poetics. Nothing has been stopping this from happening at all. Sure you have to do it slowly like everyone else, but it's still viable. Also, since Heavensward is still a few months out, there is plenty of time to do this.

Because it makes sense to have the possibility to BiS-equip all classes until Expansion comes. I'd like to have at least a 130 magitek weapon for all classes which is not possible right now.

I am still a firm believer they should open the floodgates and let people gear up instead of waitin' till lord knows when...
Their possible logic is probably this:
- Unlock poetic. Everyone races caps.
- Gets done in a few days.
- Nothing else to gear.
- People unsub because they are bored.

When they should be thinking:
- People have more time to cap without feeling the need to hurry weekly to cap and miss out on a reset and go at own pace.
- More people in the mix of FCOB.
- All jobs geared in time for HW.
- Accept that fact, people are going to unsub anyways because of not much to do.

If you wanna get people more into raids, do it now while we got 2 months of downtime. That is plenty of time
for people to learn and get into it in time for other stuff come HW. Unlock FCOB where only a handful can clear without a static, and
WoD gear for so long and it only gives you clothes, accessories are still a thing y'know...Also BLM gear doesn't exist in WoD lol.

Conclusion: Force people to continue playing for more money per month lol.

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Originally Posted by Grotesque

Because it makes sense to have the possibility to BiS-equip all classes until Expansion comes. I'd like to have at least a 130 magitek weapon for all classes which is not possible right now.

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I get why people want it, but why would they expect it? We've never had 2 unlocked currencies at the same time, even at the release of 2.0. Based on past history, I wouldn't expect Poetics to be unlocked until the expansion.

They stated 130 ilvl will last a long time in HW. You can just gear up along with the expansion for the jobs you don't manage to be 130 by then. They don't wanna make all the levelling gear they're adding completely obsolete, only to be required by new players

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I get why people want it, but why would they expect it? We've never had 2 unlocked currencies at the same time, even at the release of 2.0. Based on past history, I wouldn't expect Poetics to be unlocked until the expansion.

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But you do know that Poetics will prolly just disappear altogether with the expansion, right? They are coming out with two new tomes in Heavensward which will make them not useable. And let face it, by the time the expansion drops, ironworks will be worthless, so why not just let us gear our other jobs now while it still worth something.

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Originally Posted by Cylla

But you do know that Poetics will prolly just disappear altogether with the expansion, right? They are coming out with two new tomes in Heavensward which will make them not useable. And let face it, by the time the expansion drops, ironworks will be worthless, so why not just let us gear our other jobs now while it still worth something.

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Ironworks won't be worthless for awhile, at least in the late 50's, possibly still on the low end of level 60 gear. That was what they mentioned before. Also for people without the expansion, they likely will keep in Soldiery/Poetics for awhile after.

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Originally Posted by Cylla

But you do know that Poetics will prolly just disappear altogether with the expansion, right? They are coming out with two new tomes in Heavensward which will make them not useable. And let face it, by the time the expansion drops, ironworks will be worthless, so why not just let us gear our other jobs now while it still worth something.

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I don't expect Poetics to disappear. What about people that didn't purchase the expansion?

That's another discussion for another thread, though. ^^

In any case, Ironworks/Dreadwyrm gear will probably be fine until we get Alexander. I can't see them leaving people that have cleared the old endgame content (or ground out the tome gear) needing to gear up again just to enter the new raid. Just because we're going to 60 cap doesn't mean the equipment has to suddenly become useless.

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Originally Posted by SlyTribal

Ironworks won't be worthless for awhile, at least in the late 50's, possibly still on the low end of level 60 gear. That was what they mentioned before. Also for people without the expansion, they likely will keep in Soldiery/Poetics for awhile after.

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I posted right when you did and saw yours about the ironworks. I was going by how they've handled tomes in the past, where Myth has become no longer useable and so in thinking that once HW dropped it would push Soldiery out for good, Poetics where Myth is now and then the two new one's. I suppose they could keep Poetics open in that case. Who to say~ Guess we'll see when we get to that point ^.^

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I get why people want it, but why would they expect it? We've never had 2 unlocked currencies at the same time, even at the release of 2.0. Based on past history, I wouldn't expect Poetics to be unlocked until the expansion.

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Because it makes so much sense to unlock them in the expansion..

I dont get why people expect them to still follow the line, when an expansion means the end of the line.


ilvl 130 wont have any meaning in Heavensward, because i doubt anyone would expect people to do old content, to gear up on ilvl130, just so they can get the Heavensward quests done, or for the sake of having a good starter set for the new endgame, thats not how transitions into expansions work.
It would also kill the meaning of relevant loot in the lvling dungeons.. just like in ARR endgame

I'm not expecting it because they don't want us to unsub for two months after getting all our gear.

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Originally Posted by Charisma

Because it makes so much sense to unlock them in the expansion..

I dont get why people expect them to still follow the line, when an expansion means the end of the line.

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ilevel 130 gear will not be useless the moment you get level 51

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ilvl 130 wont have any meaning in Heavensward, because i doubt anyone would expect people to do old content, to gear up on ilvl130, just so they can get the Heavensward quests done, or for the sake of having a good starter set for the new endgame, thats not how transitions into expansions work.

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The first Heavensward dungeon would give the players ilevel 110 gear, if it follow the pattern with dungeon drop. The moment a new player reach level 60 he get his ilevel 130 gear or gear near ilevel 130 without farming tomes for it.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I get why people want it, but why would they expect it? We've never had 2 unlocked currencies at the same time, even at the release of 2.0. Based on past history, I wouldn't expect Poetics to be unlocked until the expansion.

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But they haven't unlocked coil drops and added echo/nerfs this early before either, no? It would make sense to uncap poetics before 3.0 to give the stragglers or people returning to the game some time to prepare. It'd also give the non-coil crowd a bit more to do with this 6-month+ stretch of no real new content.

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Originally Posted by Felis

The first Heavensward dungeon would give the players ilevel 110 gear, if it follow the pattern with dungeon drop.

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I so hope this isn't true. I am so very tired of having every new dungeon giving exclusively obsolete gear with no other purpose other than glamour. Can't we have somewhat challenging and somewhat rewarding dungeons for a change, instead of the mindless "grind trivial, crap-dropping dungeons for your weekly tome currency" deal?

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Originally Posted by Riepah

I so hope this isn't true. I am so very tired of having every new dungeon giving exclusively obsolete gear with no other purpose other than glamour. Can't we have somewhat challenging and somewhat rewarding dungeons for a change, instead of the mindless "grind trivial, crap-dropping dungeons for your weekly tome currency" deal?

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for a new player who started FF XIV shortly before or after Heavensward, end the 2.55 story with average ilevel 90-100, the ilevel 110 gears would be not obsolete, but the first step into Heavensward.

If you want challenge, stop farming poetic tomes and throw away your ilevel 130 gears ^^

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

They're complaining that Poetics wasn't uncapped, I guess?

I dunno why people keep expecting that to happen.

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Because they want it to happen. Better question, why shouldn't it happen? 1.0 to 2.0 was drastic change, 2.0 to 3.0 won't be as drastic, they've done many things not fitting pattern lately so the argument of "I know what SE will do because xyz reasons in past" is pretty moot. Never know.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

I so hope this isn't true. I am so very tired of having every new dungeon giving exclusively obsolete gear with no other purpose other than glamour. Can't we have somewhat challenging and somewhat rewarding dungeons for a change, instead of the mindless "grind trivial, crap-dropping dungeons for your weekly tome currency" deal?

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It is true, they don't want to make 130 gear obsolete the second we enter Heavensward, it will last a long time still. However they're keeping the poetics cap so people can still make some use of the new 110+ gear on other jobs/new chars.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

They're complaining that Poetics wasn't uncapped, I guess?

I dunno why people keep expecting that to happen.

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Entitlement isn't all that complicated. ;)

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Originally Posted by Anneliese

I'm not expecting it because they don't want us to unsub for two months after getting all our gear.

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I think you are VASTLY overestimating how quickly the average player will grind out enough Poetics to buy 10 different Ironworks weapons and full armor for all their classes.

While it is quite true that Yoshi said endgame gear would "not be replaced promptly at level 51 by any means" (via Massively article) - I think it is interesting that he chose lvl 51 in his answer. That made the fear of obsolete gear coming just as we start the expansion go away, but I'm willing to bet that the expansion will have many new armor sets, especially for those people who are new and just level right through 50-60 the same way we leveled from 40-50 // without stopping to "gear up". I'd wager that most of us didn't even care much what gear we had while leveling since it can be done so quickly (assuming we had level appropriate gear mixed with some dungeon drops). For those new players, it will be one continuous journey to 60 and I think the dungeon drops will reflect that.

I honestly believe that i130-135 won't last until level 60. At the most, I'd say level 55. After all, who wants to wear the same old gear for 10 levels. I'm not sure how long it will take to get from 50-60, but I do remember how in FFXI level 63 or so was actually HALF WAY or so to the cap of 75 (when 75 was cap). I know FF14 doesn't use that kind of xp curve, but with the expansion --- who knows. Perhaps I'm an anomaly (even though I should have NIN @i120 and WHM @ i130 by expansion release), but I'd willingly give those up for some nice looking, fun new armor designs no matter the ilvl since, again, when did we ever care about ilvl while leveling...

They wont lvl 1 to 60 very quickly with Steps locking them out of higher exp/hr thresholds.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

I honestly believe that i130-135 won't last until level 60. At the most, I'd say level 55. After all, who wants to wear the same old gear for 10 levels.

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Because its leveling and probably fates or dungeons most people won't even bother to replace their i130 gear and just level up not get anything get to cap then start replacing gear.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Well, go beat Rafflesia then. That should be perfectly doable nowadays.

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Thing is... I've tried a handful of times. And everything literally gets too hectic for me to see and do anything. Plus, I have a deep loathing for poison themed instances...

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Originally Posted by otarolgam

Thing is... I've tried a handful of times. And everything literally gets too hectic for me to see and do anything. Plus, I have a deep loathing for poison themed instances...

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Practice more. When I'm new to something it often overwhelms me too, I've some concentration issues and sociophobia, which make voice chat for example really hard to deal with. The first few times I went into turn 6 I thought there was sooo much stuff happening at once - nowadays it seems so easy in retrospect. The more you try it, the easier and more bearable it'll become - I can't speak for your loathing for poison, though. Is that a phobia of some sort too? Does it make you uncomfortable that the boss uses poisons or what?

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Practice more. When I'm new to something it often overwhelms me too, I've some concentration issues and sociophobia, which make voice chat for example really hard to deal with. The first few times I went into turn 6 I thought there was sooo much stuff happening at once - nowadays it seems so easy in retrospect. The more you try it, the easier and more bearable it'll become - I can't speak for your loathing for poison, though. Is that a phobia of some sort too? Does it make you uncomfortable that the boss uses poisons or what?

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Not a phobia... but then again, I'm not good with nature, so stuff with plants and bugs sorta irks me. Plus the worry that I'm not geared/knowledgeable enough...

Nnh, guess I can try to get something together with my FC...

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Originally Posted by otarolgam

Not a phobia... but then again, I'm not good with nature, so stuff with plants and bugs sorta irks me. Plus the worry that I'm not geared/knowledgeable enough...

Nnh, guess I can try to get something together with my FC...

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The geared/knowledgeable thing is a worry you have to try and discard - the geared part, by gearing up some more (IF your gear is really sub-par), and the knowledgeable part by just keeping it up and trying it. Don't let random people in DF who insult you discourage you, everyone's new at some point, some are faster learners than others. If your FC will go with you that's even better, of course.

I for one have an aversion to vore, so in WoD I prefer to stay out of Cerberus, heh.

Maybe they want you to get gear from more than one place?

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Originally Posted by Riepah

The geared/knowledgeable thing is a worry you have to try and discard - the geared part, by gearing up some more (IF your gear is really sub-par), and the knowledgeable part by just keeping it up and trying it. Don't let random people in DF who insult you discourage you, everyone's new at some point, some are faster learners than others. If your FC will go with you that's even better, of course.

I for one have an aversion to vore, so in WoD I prefer to stay out of Cerberus, heh.

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Being a Tank as my main, I have to stay out of Cerberus... went in once. It was awful... @_@

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Originally Posted by Felis

for a new player who started FF XIV shortly before or after Heavensward, end the 2.55 story with average ilevel 90-100, the ilevel 110 gears would be not obsolete, but the first step into Heavensward.

If you want challenge, stop farming poetic tomes and throw away your ilevel 130 gears ^^

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A challenge that only exists in end-game or by gimping yourself is bad design for PVE. Not just for the devs, but the players too. I wish people would understand this. It's been over ten years since people stated this, and it still isn't true.

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Originally Posted by Anneliese

I'm not expecting it because they don't want us to unsub for two months after getting all our gear.

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That's what they're thinking but the gap between now and then is pretty long, considering 3.0 was suppose to be out in a much earlier date.
This will give players more to do...it's not like it's easy passing T9+ so this will keep players busy until then.
Because honestly, players will just do weekly cap and leave. You gotta have something in between to keep folks going.

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Originally Posted by Enjuden

A challenge that only exists in end-game or by gimping yourself is bad design for PVE. Not just for the devs, but the players too. I wish people would understand this. It's been over ten years since people stated this, and it still isn't true.

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In the context of leveling dungeons though in a new expansion, which is what I'm assuming is being discussed there, bad design is to introduce players to the new leveling dungeons by expecting them to be decked out in max (or near max ) ilvl gear in order to complete it. If you require such things, you alienate players (look at how all end game raiding expectations are). Consider the difficulty of Aurum Vale if it weren't capped. I'm quite certain that players wouldn't have such a hard time there, and it wouldn't be anywhere close to being as despised as it is now. Challenge does not exist when everyone overpowers something. Challenge does not exist when everyone memorizes something.