Heavensward lore nuggets from the new website!

New lore section has been added to
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/heavensward/

So, Cid isn't behind the Machinist class after all, instead it's the Skysteel Manufactory.
The Dark Knight lore sounds awesome

Very nice! I'm actually more intrigued by the Astrologian lore, even if I'll likely not play that job for a long time - that they're Sharlayan in origin and that more and more points to them having time magic. Will be interesting.

The Dark Knight lore kind of bummed me out (Sounds more like a lone knight then anything that exploits/uses/dances with darkness), and I was heavily disappointed by the new site (Took me hours to figure out I had to reset the region for it to display the new stuff). Otherwise, the new stuff looks neat!

I guess this must be Skysteel Manufactory
http://i.imgur.com/IHekqop.png

Looks like they're the creators of the personal airship too!

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Originally Posted by Bombast

The Dark Knight lore kind of bummed me out (Sounds more like a lone knight then anything that exploits/uses/dances with darkness), and I was heavily disappointed by the new site (Took me hours to figure out I had to reset the region for it to display the new stuff). Otherwise, the new stuff looks neat!

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Well that's actually the historical definition of what Dark (Black) Knights were anyway. I'd like to know how the darkness is integrated into their lore, but besides that I find it pretty cool.

Considering that Dark Knights sound basically like vigilante knights that punish corrupt members of the Theocracy, and considering that the Holy See seems to be the center of 'holy' style knights in Ishgard, I could see the Dark Knights having their origins from individuals looking for a power to fight back against said corruption. With the Paladin style power the primary demain of the Theocracy, said individuals find a source of power in one shunned by the Theocracy.

Pure speculation of course.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Considering that Dark Knights sound basically like vigilante knights that punish corrupt members of the Theocracy, and considering that the Holy See seems to be the center of 'holy' style knights in Ishgard, I could see the Dark Knights having their origins from individuals looking for a power to fight back against said corruption. With the Paladin style power the primary demain of the Theocracy, said individuals find a source of power in one shunned by the Theocracy.

Pure speculation of course.

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Basically, Batman.

The lore on Au Ra is pretty interesting though. I guess not even the people in game know their true origins.

I'm pretty eager to see how the Astrologian works and such. I'm honestly not sure what to expect from it. Passive/Time-based damage like Summoners? Direct Damage like Black Mages? Potent Heals like White Mages? A mix of all three?

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Originally Posted by Vexander

I'm pretty eager to see how the Astrologian works and such. I'm honestly not sure what to expect from it. Passive/Time-based damage like Summoners? Direct Damage like Black Mages? Potent Heals like White Mages? A mix of all three?

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I'm extremely interested in what they end up doing with AST as well since it's the second healer (I'm not forgetting about SCH) that wont have to share abilities with a dps and can primarily have healing/support skills. Even if it is given 4-5 damage skills, there's still a lot of other skills that will be healing/support skills added on top of the divining deck mechanic. I will be maining machinist, but I'll definitely peruse the AST skill set and give it a whirl.

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Originally Posted by gamesmart

Basically, Batman.

The lore on Au Ra is pretty interesting though. I guess not even the people in game know their true origins.

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Black/ Dark Knights have existed since Arthurian legend, if i'm not mistaken those predate batman by a few years...

"Dark knights, also known as black knights, were a minority group of knights who refused to serve lords or kings. Instead they either looted and raided, hunted bounties, or lived off the charity from the more humble folk, in much the same manner as a Japanese ronin. As they had no master, and thus no squire, they would paint their armor a signature black color to prevent rust and damage. Dark knights were considered by many a necessary evil, as they would protect villages and lesser people from invaders and bandits, but would also cause problems in the regions they dwelt in to sustain themselves."

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Originally Posted by seekified

Very nice! I'm actually more intrigued by the Astrologian lore, even if I'll likely not play that job for a long time - that they're Sharlayan in origin and that more and more points to them having time magic. Will be interesting.

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Ever since I first visited the Observatorium, my first thought was "Time Mage" upon looking at the Astrologians. Though I originally thought they'd have Astrologist/er/ian as a base class, with Time Mage as job crystal. Either way, I'm glad this class is being added, even though I'm more interested in Dark Knight overall.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

Black/ Dark Knights have existed since Arthurian legend, if i'm not mistaken those predate batman by a few years...

"Dark knights, also known as black knights, were a minority group of knights who refused to serve lords or kings. Instead they either looted and raided, hunted bounties, or lived off the charity from the more humble folk, in much the same manner as a Japanese ronin. As they had no master, and thus no squire, they would paint their armor a signature black color to prevent rust and damage. Dark knights were considered by many a necessary evil, as they would protect villages and lesser people from invaders and bandits, but would also cause problems in the regions they dwelt in to sustain themselves."

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Wasn't Zawisza Czarny also the only historical figure to wear black armor? As is often often associated with the metal armor worn by black knights.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

historical stuff

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Oh, I'm quite aware that Batman isn't the first "dark knight" - but the lore for DRK does have a bit of that vibe.

Also Yoshi-P teased it with a Batman shirt anyway.

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Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

New lore section has been added to
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/heavensward/

So, Cid isn't behind the Machinist class after all, instead it's the Skysteel Manufactory.
The Dark Knight lore sounds awesome

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Maybe not directly, but it says they are following Cid's influence, so there is probably a collaboration of technology/ideas between Skysteel and the Garlond Ironworks.

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Originally Posted by Kotemon

Wasn't Zawisza Czarny also the only historical figure to wear black armor? As is often often associated with the metal armor worn by black knights.

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Actually it was beyond counting, for example poorer and defeated Knights often had no squire to maintain their armor. As such armor would be coated in pitch to prevent rust. Another example would be Edward the Black Prince who wore a suit of black armor.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

Black/ Dark Knights have existed since Arthurian legend, if i'm not mistaken those predate batman by a few years...

"Dark knights, also known as black knights, were a minority group of knights who refused to serve lords or kings. Instead they either looted and raided, hunted bounties, or lived off the charity from the more humble folk, in much the same manner as a Japanese ronin. As they had no master, and thus no squire, they would paint their armor a signature black color to prevent rust and damage. Dark knights were considered by many a necessary evil, as they would protect villages and lesser people from invaders and bandits, but would also cause problems in the regions they dwelt in to sustain themselves."

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To me the Dark knights from the arthurian legend are more evil than they are chaotic good. But I'm not an expert in these legends so maybe it's just me.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

I'm pretty eager to see how the Astrologian works and such. I'm honestly not sure what to expect from it. Passive/Time-based damage like Summoners? Direct Damage like Black Mages? Potent Heals like White Mages? A mix of all three?

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Only thing I have gathered for certain is that the AST will have two healing stances, one based on more shielding and one based on more direct healing. Switching between the two was hinted to be something you couldn't do often. Also their lvl3 LB will be titled Celestial Stasis or something along those lines. edit to clarify- despite the name it should still have a healing type effect LB.

Mentioned on the divining deck, it ahs been said you can draw a random card for a buff and either choose to use it then, or hold on to it making the effect of the second card you draw stronger. I believe there are 6 cards.

I think the "act as beacons to guide the meek through darkness" part was quite dumb. I remember how some people complained that a "Rogue" in this game is basically just another goody two-shoes who follows a code and protects the weak etc., I found it funny at the time - but that now even the Dark Knight class is painted as purely good is just lame.

So AST is more of a healer/buffer type class? Interesting. Still seems rather fun. I wouldn't mind a Time Mage though. Still, maybe in another expansion we'll get one.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

I think the "act as beacons to guide the meek through darkness" part was quite dumb. I remember how some people complained that a "Rogue" in this game is basically just another goody two-shoes who follows a code and protects the weak etc., I found it funny at the time - but that now even the Dark Knight class is painted as purely good is just lame.

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Based on the actions of the player character both in the main story quest and all sidequests the players are all goody two-shoes that protect the meek and smile and nod at every opportunity. Since we have no influence as to what kind of actions the player character will take in the story, I suspect we will never see a playable job that isn't painted as purely good.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

I think the "act as beacons to guide the meek through darkness" part was quite dumb. I remember how some people complained that a "Rogue" in this game is basically just another goody two-shoes who follows a code and protects the weak etc., I found it funny at the time - but that now even the Dark Knight class is painted as purely good is just lame.

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I find the rogue/dark knight thing to reflect a philosophy that I have always followed-the power is just a tool, and it depends how you use it. The dark knight in particular would paint you as someone who can grapple with the dark power and master it instead of letting it corrupt you, which sounds stronger to me. That's just my opinion though.

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Originally Posted by RotomLandry

Based on the actions of the player character both in the main story quest and all sidequests the players are all goody two-shoes that protect the meek and smile and nod at every opportunity. Since we have no influence as to what kind of actions the player character will take in the story, I suspect we will never see a playable job that isn't painted as purely good.

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Thats the character though.

All the classes and jobs so far, besides BLM, have essential been about goodie two shoes teaching us how to goodie two shoe our way through their job. Dark Knight would have been an excellent opportunity to add a job that was portrayed a bit more evilly, or at least a bit less good.

Just because we're always good, doesn't mean everything we touch has to be golden.

Afterthought: The Paladin quest actually features the most 'Evil' people of a player character job. Isn't that weird?

With so many people voicing for an option of an "Evil Dark Knight", few have given an example of how that would be portrayed. What would that entail exactly? As it stands (in the lore of FFXIV) Dark Knights punish those those that believe themselves out side of law (an aspect I enjoy immensely), however this seems to be not "Dark" enough... What then is the purpose of a Dark Knight? Why would anyone let them into their party to quest through a dungeon to stop an evil within? Would they destroy the evil with their evil...er power? Why would anyone help you to grow stronger if your "edgy evilness" was so palpable?

I really don't know either. I mean you're basically a mix between the historical Dark (Black) Knight and Batman. Totes making an Au Ra to play Dark Knight.

I think it's because the scenario universally portrays the PC as an upstanding, righteous hero, and playing a Dark Knight won't deviate from that. People want a PC that isn't the "righteous hero" type, but due to the fact the devs can't develop a more "neutral" or "evil" campaign, every class has to be unambiguously heroic. Or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

With so many people voicing for an option of an "Evil Dark Knight", few have given an example of how that would be portrayed. What would that entail exactly? As it stands (in the lore of FFXIV) Dark Knights punish those those that believe themselves out side of law (an aspect I enjoy immensely), however this seems to be not "Dark" enough... What then is the purpose of a Dark Knight? Why would anyone let them into their party to quest through a dungeon to stop an evil within? Would they destroy the evil with their evil...er power? Why would anyone help you to grow stronger if your "edgy evilness" was so palpable?

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Theirs two basic Black Knight types in Final Fantasy - Rogue Knights (What we got) and Knights who use the power of darkness (Which doesn't necessarily make them 'evil').

I was hoping we'd get the FF4 type of Dark Knight - a class where one risk their soul for the power of darkness, which they either bow too, or try to tame and use for good purposes. All the Cecil gear got my hopes up, but instead we got, as others said, Batman. This version of the Dark Knight is, of course, completely valid and in line with Final Fantasy. It's just not what I was hoping for.

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Originally Posted by Bombast

I was hoping we'd get the FF4 type of Dark Knight - a class where one risk their soul for the power of darkness, which they either bow too, or try to tame and use for good purposes.

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There's nothing saying that won't be the case. No matter the game, Dark Knights all wield the power of darkness - and the power of darkness is tied to either the Void or Zodiark in XIV. It's likely dangerous to use either way.

Can't really learn more until Heavensward launches though.

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Originally Posted by Bombast

Theirs two basic Black Knight types in Final Fantasy - Rogue Knights (What we got) and Knights who use the power of darkness (Which doesn't necessarily make them 'evil').

I was hoping we'd get the FF4 type of Dark Knight - a class where one risk their soul for the power of darkness, which they either bow too, or try to tame and use for good purposes. All the Cecil gear got my hopes up, but instead we got, as others said, Batman. This version of the Dark Knight is, of course, completely valid and in line with Final Fantasy. It's just not what I was hoping for.

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To be honest, I think they kind of went along 'mastering the power lest it master you' thing with warrior where one of the key aspects of its narrative was controlling the inner beast lest it turn you into a mindless beast. While I hope they do tap into the mastering the darkness thing, I would like to see a bit of a different narrative.

I'm actually expecting the DK narrative to be more about the actions rather than the source of power making one evil.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

To be honest, I think they kind of went along 'mastering the power lest it master you' thing with warrior where one of the key aspects of its narrative was controlling the inner beast lest it turn you into a mindless beast. While I hope they do tap into the mastering the darkness thing, I would like to see a bit of a different narrative.

I'm actually expecting the DK narrative to be more about the actions rather than the source of power making one evil.

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To add on to this, that same theme was used in the Dragoon job questline - a certain NPC was corrupted by the power of a certain artifact, and you had to bring him back to earth (heh).

They've already used it twice, so I can see Dark Knight's story going in a different direction, complete with several Batman references (because it has to be done, right?).

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Originally Posted by gamesmart

To add on to this, that same theme was used in the Dragoon job questline - a certain NPC was corrupted by the power of a certain artifact, and you had to bring him back to earth (heh).

They've already used it twice, so I can see Dark Knight's story going in a different direction, complete with several Batman references (because it has to be done, right?).

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I can see many of the job quest having Batman themed titles, possibly a corrupt church official mirroring Kefka (thought i was gonna say someone else huh?). Wonder how far we'll get before "The Dark Knight rises", "knight Fall", "Return of the Dark Knight", "The hero we deserve but not the one we needed", "The Dark Knight". Despite my own previous post i will admit I am a fan of the comics/ movies.

To be fair, there isn't really a reason that Dark Knights couldn't be portrayed as fearsome figures, driven by ambition and their own personal interpretations of right and wrong, who mete out, "Justice," indiscriminately and with brutal, sometimes cruel efficiency. Sure, a Dark Knight killing a bunch of bandits makes sense and works just fine with what we have now. But, what about a dark knight who kills a homeless, destitute person just trying to feed their children by stealing from a vendor? When confronted by the fact the man/woman they just killed had hungry mouths to feed, their response can be cold. "They'll be better off in an Orphanage than suffering under a failed parent."

Seems pretty dark and borderline evil, no? I mean, technically, they're still bringing, "Justice," by stopping a Thief, but the lack of empathy or any modicum of mercy is pretty dark.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

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What will happen is that a DRK will ask why the thief stole from the vendor, wherein he finds out the local lord/clergy has been hoarding off food and taxing them way too high. The DRK will then do a series of quest to isolate and arrest the corrupt clergy/lord. Thus the peasantry will live happily ever after.

Along the way he'll have to convince the DRK rival who wants to be more forceful in meting out justice. After a duel (due to rival succumbing to darkness in his heart) where we win, the rival will learn the error of his way

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Originally Posted by Vexander

To be fair, there isn't really a reason that Dark Knights couldn't be portrayed as fearsome figures, driven by ambition and their own personal interpretations of right and wrong, who mete out, "Justice," indiscriminately and with brutal, sometimes cruel efficiency. Sure, a Dark Knight killing a bunch of bandits makes sense and works just fine with what we have now. But, what about a dark knight who kills a homeless, destitute person just trying to feed their children by stealing from a vendor? When confronted by the fact the man/woman they just killed had hungry mouths to feed, their response can be cold. "They'll be better off in an Orphanage than suffering under a failed parent".

Seems pretty dark and borderline evil, no? I mean, technically, they're still bringing, "Justice," by stopping a Thief, but the lack of empathy or any modicum of mercy is pretty dark.

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Who would or could call that a champion? Who would bother associating with an individual of that caliber. The example above illustrates a corrupt system more than a single person brandishing their personal justice (in my opinion).

"None dare to administer justice to these sacrosanct elite residing out side the reach of the law. Who then, defends the feeble from the transgressions of those meant to guide and protect them?

A valiant few take up arms to defend the downtrodden, and not even the holy priest and knights can escape their judgment. Pariahs in their own land, they are known by many as "Dark Knights".

Being that the setting is in Ishgard a place of near zealot like adherence to religion and caste system, it becomes very easy to see what role Dark knights may take.

I've seen quite a few quests about people wanting a warrior of darkness rather than a warrior of light pointing out in other FF games that a warrior of darkness has infact been the hero bringing balance.

I think there will be a touch of that with Dark Knight. Taking the role in context of Ishgard we see a situation where the holy and ordered structure is the tyrant. A very 'tyranny of the light' thing. Honestly I think this is a better place to take the DK. Lets be honest, they aren't going to let players play bad guys and even borderline evil doesn't fit the narrative.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

Who would or could call that a champion? Who would bother associating with an individual of that caliber. The example above illustrates a corrupt system more than a single person brandishing their personal justice (in my opinion).

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Sorry, I probably could've done a better job explaining it. In the example, the Dark Knight is not some ordained authority figure, but more of a Vigilante. Naturally no law would mete out death as a punishment for theft, but the Dark Knight is judge, jury, and executioner. Some are more strict and cruel than others, while others can be more lenient. There would be room for various types of Dark Knights.

Anyways, it was just a suggestion.