Noob question on defiance and warrios

1-At 30 when warrior gets defiance does it make a noticeable difference in the warriors survivability? Especially in dungeons when adds are around. Does he put a less strain on healer?

2- At higher levels how is warriors overall survival? Thanks...

P.S. I know you cant judge a job at lower levels but man does my Mar take a beating in dungeons lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artaniss

1-At 30 when warrior gets defiance does it make a noticeable difference in the warriors survivability? Especially in dungeons when adds are around. Does he put a less strain on healer?

2- At higher levels how is warriors overall survival? Thanks...

P.S. I know you cant judge a job at lower levels but man does my Mar take a beating in dungeons lol.

---

1. Yes, you not only generate more hate to hold enemies, you also get 25% more healing.

2. Warrior's overall survival is on par with Paladin's. The only real difference being, it requires a bit more finesse to use our mitigation tools well. I.E. Our best defensive trait, Inner Beast (lv 35 I believe) is tied to our Global Cooldown, unlike Paladin, who has multiple defensive traits off the GCD.)

Warrior at lv 30 really shines, compared to Paladin at 30, in HUGE part due to the fact that Warrior gets their HUGE enmity buff then, vs. Paladin getting their DPS buff, then later levels their Enmity buff.

I really enjoyed leveling warrior, hopefully you will too :).

just a little correction, Defiance boosts HP by 25%, lowers your damage by 25%, but the healing buff is "only" 20%

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spoekes

just a little correction, Defiance boosts HP by 25%, lowers your damage by 25%, but the healing buff is "only" 20%

---

thanks, it's still early here :P. In any case... if your a fresh tank, just keep it up all the time. And when you've mastered Warrior, you can play with the idea of toggling it on and off based off the scenario.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artaniss

1-At 30 when warrior gets defiance does it make a noticeable difference in the warriors survivability? Especially in dungeons when adds are around. Does he put a less strain on healer?

2- At higher levels how is warriors overall survival? Thanks...

P.S. I know you cant judge a job at lower levels but man does my Mar take a beating in dungeons lol.

---

1. Defiance does not take the strain away. It gives the healer some more time to react, but it does not take the strain away at all. The best way to take the strain away is to mitigate damage properly. By that I mean Cycling through your defensive Cooldowns and popping another one when you are taking too much damage. PLD is a little more forgiving in this sense than a WAR. Due to the shield you have a bit more passive damage mitigation than WAR. However a good WAR will use "Inner beast" when taking a large hit and mitigating a LARGE percentage of it. I dare say that a well played WAR can mitigate more damage than a PLD in my opinion. However it is A LOT less forgiving on the mistakes and takes a lot of time to master properly. This is something most WAR's will never achieve (We have the larger health pool to make up for it though)

2. Having tanked nearly all Ex-Primals and everything up to Coil T7 i can definitely say: We will always take a beating. Thing is you will get more mitigation skills later on, especially when you have some other classes and can cross class some extra skills on our WAR. I have 8 mitigation skills which I cycle through with the exception of Inner Beast which I try to time on big hits. Warrior however usually gets used as offtank later on. Like I said before, PLD's have some more passive mitigation thus they are more suited against Spike damage (Hell they can get crit immunity for a short period of time), WAR on the other hand deals more damage than a PLD does. So we often help out on DPS while tanking. Do not let the term "Off tank" fool you, main tank simply means we won't be tanking the boss (Unless a tank-swap mechanic is in place). A lot of WAR tanks therefor switch to Strength accessories later on instead of Vit ones for some higher DPS output.

Hope this answers your questions :)

Here is another noob warrior question. What is my rotation at 23? Do I keep fracture up all the time and do I go Heavy Swing and Maim and then once I have buff do I them spam HS and Skull sunder? Thanks. Also is it me or does Foresight don't do much in the way of defense? Seems like it is negligible at best. Thanks again...

Don't use Fracture unless you've got a healthy aggro lead.

Raging Strikes (lvl 4 Archer) -> Tomahawk -> Brutal Swing -> HS -> Bloodbath + Internal Release (IR = lvl 12 Pugilist) -> Maim -> Berserk -> [HS -> SS] x inf

Refresh Maim whenever it's about to fall off, apply Fracture when you're comfortable. Once you unlock WAR you just remove Raging. Start with a HS -> SS if you're not comfortable starting with HS -> Maim.

Foresight only increases your physical mitigation by a very small % (forget the number), you pretty much want to just use it whenever it's available and you're tanking something. Convalescence (lvl 10 Gladiator) is more useful during this level as well as Keen Flurry (lvl 6 Lancer), so I'd recommend getting those if you haven't already - can't use Keen Flurry as WAR but you can still use Conv.

I often forget that Fracture even exists when I'm playing WAR (though I use it as a cross for a few other classes). The 80 TP cost, Wrath build break combined with Warrior's Defiance lowering damage output makes me only ever use it when I'm OT and only in combination with Unchained, Maim and Berserk - and only when I remember it's there. I'm usually busy keeping up Storm's Eye & Path - unless there's a Ninja in the party willing to keep up Dancing Edge.

I assume it's okay to use as a Marauder at LV23 but someone else I'd like to give you better insight on it at that level as I wasn't a Marauder for more than about an hour and a half as when I leveled it Fates still gave out a bajillion experience. Though as far as Foresight goes it is a fantastic skill. It's not as good as PLD's Bulwark (I think this is the nearly identical skill name) for the following reason:
Foresight increases your physical defense by 20% (way more noticeable at higher levels) for 15 seconds. Bulwark, due to a PLD trait, increases their defense and magic defense by 20%. So, it just may be that you're activating Foresight against magical attacks and therefore don't see it serving any use.

Bulwark is "Increases block rate by 60%.", you're thinking of Rampart. Rampart also works on reducing damage taken, whereas Foresight simply increases Physical Defense. Not the same.

As a side note, as long as you're @ 5 Wrath and won't go TP starved by the end (or you'll get Paeon before that happens), it's safe to use Fracture. It's strongest under Unchained or without Defiance, but it's a DPS increase regardless.

Please make sure you use Inner Beast when on Warrior. I had one the other day that saved his Wrath stacks for Unchained only. Inner Beast really helps your healers and keep you alive. So use it.

Fracture is good to use, especially after level 28 with the trait, as long as it gets to tick the entire length of the DOT. It's 300 potency, so it's tied with Inner Beast as your strongest attack.
But it is situational to some extent. It will burn TP.

Defiance vs. Shield Oath is pretty much a wash numerically. Paladins get to block, which means they mitigate more of the autoattacks and smaller hits. But Warriors often have better mitigation for "tank killer" attacks than Paladins, as they can usually Beast all of them. Vengeance and Thrill of Battle on 2-minute timers also make for really great survivability against the big hit moves.

Playing warrior is very fun and rewarding :) experiment with it and ask around! Our damage output can be pretty insane too. You asked about foresight. At lower levels, it's almost useless; this is because it increases your defense stat by a certain percentage. If your defense is 100 then it becomes 120. I think mathematically, about 14 points of defense reduce damage about 1% or so. But this is nothing if enemies are hitting for 50 damage. So you wouldn't notice it. Later on though, wow. It's great. It also doesn't work on magic damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kemiko

Though as far as Foresight goes it is a fantastic skill. It's not as good as PLD's Bulwark (I think this is the nearly identical skill name) for the following reason:
Foresight increases your physical defense by 20% (way more noticeable at higher levels) for 15 seconds. Bulwark, due to a PLD trait, increases their defense and magic defense by 20%. So, it just may be that you're activating Foresight against magical attacks and therefore don't see it serving any use.

---

Foresight is very weak comparing to Bulwark or Rampart. Foresight increase physical defense by 20%, that means about 8% of physical damage mitigation. Bulwark increase chance (block rate) of shield block. With end-game shield this means ~90% chance of mitigate physical damage by 30%. Rampart is 20% magical/physical damage mitigation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nerael

Like I said before, PLD's have some more passive mitigation thus they are more suited against Spike damage (Hell they can get crit immunity for a short period of time), WAR on the other hand deals more damage than a PLD does. So we often help out on DPS while tanking. Do not let the term "Off tank" fool you, main tank simply means we won't be tanking the boss (Unless a tank-swap mechanic is in place). A lot of WAR tanks therefor switch to Strength accessories later on instead of Vit ones for some higher DPS output.

---

Facts:
1. PLD has more mitigation skills, has shield and better efficiency of heal compared to received damage. For these reasons in most party's PLD is MT
2. WAR deals more damage in Defiance than PLD in Shield Oath, is better in dmg aspect for MT role but see point 1.
3. PLD deals more damage in Sword Oath than WAR without Defiance, Sword Oath gives PLD near 30% more dmg than Shield Oath, but again - see point 1.
4. High-ends FC with superb healers for max overall damage plays with WAR MT and PLD OT, according to points 2 and 3.
5. A lot of WAR (and some PLD also) switch to crafted i110 accessories, which gives STR boost and safe VIT level.

WARs survive well for a short time against a lot of mobs - popping Foresight, Bloodbath and Vengeance and then spamming Overpower on a group of adds will sometimes make your healer wonder why he's even there. If mobs don't start dying within 20 seconds though, that's a different story. I'm really not familiar enough with PLDs to make a statement, but I've been told they can survive stuff that WARs can't because of Rampart, Bulwark and a generally higher parry rate, but yeah.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seekified

I'm really not familiar enough with PLDs to make a statement, but I've been told they can survive stuff that WARs can't because of Rampart, Bulwark and a generally higher parry rate, but yeah.

---

True, PLD can active mitigate over 70s and has shield with 30% physical mitigation (PLD's parry has weaker efficiency than on WAR because when shield work - parry not)

I hated the early stages of warrior to be honest. It felt useless till lvl 40 then everything started making sense. I heard the same same for paladin. I'll have to play that class all the way through to actually say what's best for me. Right now I love being a warrior, decent damage and high health. When I run in to deal with adds I use defiance, infuriate, berserk, unchained, thrill of battle, blood bath, and AOE spam hoping to stay alive long enough for healer to control my health bar. I may be doing to much for an initiation but Im starting to believe warrior shine by using insane health and life steal to survive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RecklessLion

I hated the early stages of warrior to be honest. It felt useless till lvl 40 then everything started making sense. I heard the same same for paladin. I'll have to play that class all the way through to actually say what's best for me. Right now I love being a warrior, decent damage and high health. When I run in to deal with adds I use defiance, infuriate, berserk, unchained, thrill of battle, blood bath, and AOE spam hoping to stay alive long enough for healer to control my health bar. I may be doing to much for an initiation but Im starting to believe warrior shine by using insane health and life steal to survive.

---

The problem is really that around level 30, the DPS classes start getting some very powerful stuff that generate a craptonne of aggro very quickly. Keeping up with that and still managing your health as a tank in those levels can be very tricky at times.

Your method with the AoE spam tends to work very well for me as well when I do huge pulls - a Sacred Soil and a couple of adlos on that and there's no way we're going down as long as Bloodbath and Vengeance are up. :)

And don't waste TP dropping fracture on things that won't last 18+ seconds lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheMurrkin4

And don't waste TP dropping fracture on things that won't last 18+ seconds lol

---

Couldn't agree more about how situational it is. One is just asking for TP drain if they are tagging anything that walks with it.

While leveling my warrior, the biggest difference I noticed was that I was running out of TP -constantly-, even with invigorate.

I only really use fracture on bosses, but I have to sit between pulls if I ever use more than 2 or 3 overpower.

While as a pali, I can easily spam 3-5 flashes if needed and have mana to spare, not to mention that TP doesn't even dip if I get a lot of shield procs.

I am less worried about mitigation on a warrior (which I hear is pretty balanced now). Mostly I'm just not sure why I'm running out of TP constantly. I tend to just go 1-2 and only go to maim when its dropping, at the same time refreshing fracture if its fallen off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pandabearcat

snip

---

you are probably using too much Overpowers...

while I was leveling my WAR, I always used the combo Tomahawk-Flash-Overpowerx2 when dealing with trash mobs... other than that, you shouldn't have any problem with aggro, so you can start cycling your maim/bb combo (depending wich skills you are available)
first time I saw myself with really low TP was the first time I did Ifrit story mode... but he was like at <5% so I didn't care too much xD

just replace one or two overpower with Flash, and you are good...
Berserk also helps a lot on TP management, in long fights