A plea to SE about RMT

A plea to SE about RMT. Please help us, help us deal with the problem, help us help you to deal with it, communicate with us, and let us know that you care about the situation and that something *is* being done. I believe it would be really helpful to the community if you could be more communicative and engage us in a dialog on the topic.

I was thinking about posting this message and so I did a quick search on the term RMT just in the General Discussion forum within the English Speaking Community area. Since the start of the year there have been some 211 topics started that have involved discussions relating to RMT in some fashion or another.

The vast majority of those topics were complaints by players sick of the constant tell spamming and shouts and RMT friend requests. Some included pretty decent suggestions of specific actions that could be taken to give players better tools to mitigate the RMT issue, as well as making the life of the task force easier, but helping us report more effectively.

The topics are getting more angry by the day and people are truly sick of the RMT problem. More than that though, people are *very* unhappy with the lack of communication from SE regarding dealing with RMT.

The weekly action reports indicate how many accounts got permanently banned for various activity, and yet the RMT activity continues without a break. This leaves players wondering what, if anything, more is/can be done to help the situation.

Please help us not only to understand what you are doing about RMT, whether you are working on additional counter measures, and also whether you are considering the ideas people have put forth. I think we are all smart enough to realize that you do not wish to tip your hand with respect to your actions, by revealing specifics. But players are losing faith, getting upset, angry and tired.

As a sample, I am including below 18 linked topics from the last 2 weeks alone that cover RMT and various aspects of it. These topics account for thousands of views and hundreds of posted comments on this topic. I could have done a secondary search for topic that mentioned bots and/or gil selling which would likely generate even more hits, but I'll stick to just 'RMT';

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...f-the-players!
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...GY-CORPORATION
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Addon-support
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ng-Faith-in-SE
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...RMT-fight-back
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...iously-pissed!
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ming-a-problem
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Force-at-Work
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ns-and-primals
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...o-SE-Community
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...asual-cheating
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-RMT-situation
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...le.-discussion
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...riend-requests
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...MT-please-read
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Gil-Seller-ban
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-everyone-else
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...story-cutscene

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Originally Posted by Avenger

You might also add these if you haven't already - they were pretty good:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ution-to-RMT-s
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-RMT-situation.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...g-over-Balmung..

I support this thing but I would also love to see all RMT complaints in one thread rather than shattered into 300 threads, so I hope this might be it?

Although SE has gotten better about community relations compared to, say, a decade ago... They still don't seem to understand the importance of keeping the community in the loop in various areas. Most glaringly now, dealing with RMT spam. Yes, those weekly ban reports are nice, but right now... that's not helping with the spam.

Have all my likes, OP.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

I support this thing but I would also love to see all RMT complaints in one thread rather than shattered into 300 threads, so I hope this might be it?

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That is just not how (large) forums works. Even reddit, which (despite its many flaws) is good at preventing redundant posts over short timespans... gets these RMT complaint threads fairly frequently.

Think of forums as like tables at a restaurant. When you've got enough people, you're bound to have similar discussions at the same table, but not necessarily with the same people.

I concede that this RMT problem is very annoying, but I would like to see more threads addressing the dregs that provide a market to these RMTs, namely the buyers. Without them, these relentless opportunists wouldn't exist.

A little well-deserved shaming goes a long way; I have played MMORPGs where each week players who have been banned and the reason for that ban are posted on the game's website. At present, SE provides anonymous listings and the temporary "slap on the wrist" ban for these short-cutters.

Further it is my opinion that if you are desperate and idiotic enough to pay $30 for 10000 gil, you deserve a "scarlet letter".

Your best bet for a response is to ask about the lore involved in RMT and the naming conventions, that seems to be the only thing they respond to these days.

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Originally Posted by Caoihmin

I concede that this RMT problem is very annoying, but I would like to see more threads addressing the dregs that provide a market to these RMTs, namely the buyers. Without them, these relentless opportunists wouldn't exist.

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Honestly, if you look into criminal justice theory, this just wouldn't work. Increasing the harshness of a punishment isn't effective (except as a "tough on crime" campaign strategy) because the people that do these things don't think they will get caught (even if you make examples of people).

Furthermore, new players may not even be aware it's a violation of the rules/ToS. "buying gil/gold/etc = bad" isn't an intrinsic morality players join the online gaming world with.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

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I would be reticent to reference any criminal "justice" theory, especially if you are in the U.S. Our "justice" system is in shambles. Take a quick look into the crime rates in Singapore and other countries who execute "harsh" punishments for a crime. Interesting statistics. Further, on what servers are the highest concentration of these spammers and pampered buyers?

No, I believe what perpetuates this RMT problem is dismissing the disease and treating the symptom; something we excel at here in NA.

And in regards to the ignorance of new players, my "benefit of the doubt" got broke a loooong time ago my brotha.

Square isn't going to tell you their methods of dealing with rmt, nor should they. You don't catch people doing something wrong by telling them exactly how you plan to catch them. All it would take is one person to come to the forums, read that and then they can adjust their entire operation accordingly to make sure they avoid getting caught.

The only thing they can do is tell you how successful they are, which they do, by posting their actions taken against rmt and other illicit activity every week. You can find it on the lodestone under the notifications tab.

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Originally Posted by Darra

Your best bet for a response is to ask about the lore involved in RMT and the naming conventions, that seems to be the only thing they respond to these days.

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Hahaha. Served!

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Originally Posted by Velthice

Square isn't going to tell you their methods of dealing with rmt, nor should they. You don't catch people doing something wrong by telling them exactly how you plan to catch them. All it would take is one person to come to the forums, read that and then they can adjust their entire operation accordingly to make sure they avoid getting caught.

The only thing they can do is tell you how successful they are, which they do, by posting their actions taken against rmt and other illicit activity every week. You can find it on the lodestone under the notifications tab.

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So a "Hey, we're currently increasing our efforts and implementing new things" is too much to ask?

Or even, "We're aware that the RMT problem has been increasing and we have plans rolling to reduce it" to address the growing number of customers that are upset by the current status of RMT presence.

The lack of a public statement acknowledging the people's concerns, the automated responses in game, the increase in RMT spam, blatant farm bots that continue to exist for long periods of time, all give the feeling that our concerns are being swept under the rug and ignored.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

I support this thing but I would also love to see all RMT complaints in one thread rather than shattered into 300 threads, so I hope this might be it?

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exactly this ^ the spam about rmt in forums is almost as bad as the thing they are complaining about.. im glad i chose odin world in beta i get no more then 2 /tell a week by gil sellers lmao so doesnt bother me at all report ==> block job done

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Although SE has gotten better about community relations compared to, say, a decade ago... They still don't seem to understand the importance of keeping the community in the loop in various areas. Most glaringly now, dealing with RMT spam. Yes, those weekly ban reports are nice, but right now... that's not helping with the spam.

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I think to explain how its being dealt with, they would have to publicly admit that it is a problem. For some reason they seem to be hesitant to own up. Either way it is frustrating. The spam vectors keep increasing. /tells, friend requests, shout, yell....

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Originally Posted by Aerowaffle

So a "Hey, we're currently increasing our efforts and implementing new things" is too much to ask?

Or even, "We're aware that the RMT problem has been increasing and we have plans rolling to reduce it" to address the growing number of customers that are upset by the current status of RMT presence.

The lack of a public statement acknowledging the people's concerns, the automated responses in game, the increase in RMT spam, blatant farm bots that continue to exist for long periods of time, all give the feeling that our concerns are being swept under the rug and ignored.

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March 12: Accounts receiving disciplinary action for RMT/illicit activity: 3,452
March 26: Accounts receiving disciplinary action for RMT/illicit activity: 4,445
April 2: Accounts receiving disciplinary action for RMT/illicit activity: 8,086
April 9: Accounts receiving disciplinary action for RMT/illicit activity: 9,617

Those aren't cumulative by the way, they're per week. Square isn't ignoring your concerns, they're constantly improving and stepping up their game. If square wasn't posting reports showing their results, then I'd be worried, and you'd actually have a point, but they do, so I'm not, and you don't. Rmt spam has been cut dramatically since launch, though you may find that hard to believe.

Periods of increased rmt activity happen as rmt operations on the defensive change their strategies to avoid getting caught in the net and new operations come to the table. It's an extremely lucrative business, and completely legitimate and legal in plenty of countries. In a popluar and healthy game, rmt operations will always be present. the best one can do is remain diligent and effective in routing them in the most efficient manner possible, and square has demonstrated that they are. The net is always widening and getting harder to escape.

All those numbers say to me, personally, is that either they are lying about them (though I don't believe that) or, more likely, what they are doing is not enough.
You are saying they are doing something, and there is proof. Everyone else here is recognizing that and trying to say it's clearly not enough. Something MORE needs to be done about this situation, and continuing with the same efforts and posting the numbers like there is nothing else to see is pretty frustrating.

It really is not a lot to ask for a simple "yes, we recognize this is a problem, and we understand your frustration," or "we are working on it." Seems easy, right?

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Originally Posted by Velthice

March 12: Accounts receiving disciplinary action for RMT/illicit activity: 3,452
March 26: Accounts receiving disciplinary action for RMT/illicit activity: 4,445
April 2: Accounts receiving disciplinary action for RMT/illicit activity: 8,086
April 9: Accounts receiving disciplinary action for RMT/illicit activity: 9,617

Those aren't cumulative by the way, they're per week. Square isn't ignoring your concerns, they're constantly improving and stepping up their game. If square wasn't posting reports showing their results, then I'd be worried, and you'd actually have a point, but they do, so I'm not, and you don't. Rmt spam has been cut dramatically since launch, though you may find that hard to believe.

Periods of increased rmt activity happen as rmt operations on the defensive change their strategies to avoid getting caught in the net and new operations come to the table. It's an extremely lucrative business, and completely legitimate and legal in plenty of countries. In a popluar and healthy game, rmt operations will always be present. the best one can do is remain diligent and effective in routing them in the most efficient manner possible, and square has demonstrated that they are. The net is always widening and getting harder to escape.

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Here's the thing. Those are just numbers to me.

Theoretically, those represent the number of accounts banned by SE, and they probably do. But those might as well be automated messages at this point. And although you're claiming the RMT situation is getting better, from my experiences it's getting worse.

I've gone from reporting every RMT ad I got (a horribly lengthy process), to placing them in a separate tab and turning off the sound (because they were too frequent to report and blacklist every one), to almost always staying in /busy to avoid the increased friend request spam, to only crafting in my housing section to avoid the current /shout spam.

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Originally Posted by AmanoJ

All those numbers say to me, personally, is that either they are lying about them (though I don't believe that) or, more likely, what they are doing is not enough.
You are saying they are doing something, and there is proof. Everyone else here is recognizing that and trying to say it's clearly not enough. Something MORE needs to be done about this situation, and continuing with the same efforts and posting the numbers like there is nothing else to see is pretty frustrating.

It really is not a lot to ask for a simple "yes, we recognize this is a problem, and we understand your frustration," or "we are working on it." Seems easy, right?

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There really is nothing more to see though. As I've explained before, them laying out their process would be a terrible idea and would only serve to aid rmt operations. They clearly recognize it's a problem and are doing something about it, otherwise they wouldn't be publishing weekly reports that demonstrate just that.

Whether or not more needs to be done, well that's another matter entirely. Of course there's always more that could be done, but we don't know the scope of the problem, and likely, neither does SE, though they definitely have more information to work with than we do. Rmt is not a problem that can be "solved" only stop-gapped. It's the game of whack a mole that never ends, and if there was a way to stop rmt "once and for all" the person who came up with it would be strutting like Rockefeller

Square Enix has a long history of failing to deal with RMT with the requisite speed and severity. Those of us who were part of the RMT takeover of Final Fantasy XI can confirm.

For years Square Enix neither acknowledged, nor treated the RMT problem. They let the problem become so severe that the price of 1,000,000 gil was only a mere $12.00. That's when the market went into hyperinflation and things like crystals were selling for 5,000 gil per crystal! A full set of gear for a new player who hit level 20 would cost 100,000 - 200,000 gil! The botting problem was legendary... (for reference: https://youtu.be/RNCCVF3uJIA) and this persisted for years like this before Square Enix did ANYTHING... I literally mean NOT ONE THING WAS DONE...

However, when Square Enix finally stepped in and took action it was very effective. I believe all of this is still true of Square Enix, but only in degrees.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

I support this thing but I would also love to see all RMT complaints in one thread rather than shattered into 300 threads, so I hope this might be it?

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

exactly this ^ the spam about rmt in forums is almost as bad as the thing they are complaining about.. im glad i chose odin world in beta i get no more then 2 /tell a week by gil sellers lmao so doesnt bother me at all report ==> block job done

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Your best bet is this thread It has 400+ replies and over 100 signatures (probably closer to 200 when the author gets back to update the list) that call for action against RMT.

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Originally Posted by Velthice

Square isn't going to tell you their methods of dealing with rmt, nor should they. You don't catch people doing something wrong by telling them exactly how you plan to catch them. All it would take is one person to come to the forums, read that and then they can adjust their entire operation accordingly to make sure they avoid getting caught.

The only thing they can do is tell you how successful they are, which they do, by posting their actions taken against rmt and other illicit activity every week. You can find it on the lodestone under the notifications tab.

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Clearly, which is why I said this;

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I think we are all smart enough to realize that you do not wish to tip your hand with respect to your actions, by revealing specifics

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@Kosmos,

You might also add these if you haven't already - they were pretty good:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ution-to-RMT-s
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-RMT-situation.

(LandricFey mentioned the last one as well.)

p.s. Not sure about the boosting thread, though it would be interesting to hear the official position on selling runs.

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Originally Posted by LandricFrey

Your best bet is this thread It has 400+ replies and over 100 signatures (probably closer to 200 when the author gets back to update the list) that call for action against RMT.

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yet when i logged into forums earlier first page of general discussion had 10 different topics started all complaining about rmt lmao as i stated b4 its about as bad as what they are complaining about ._.

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Originally Posted by Avenger

@Kosmos,

You might also add these if you haven't already - they were pretty good:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ution-to-RMT-s
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-RMT-situation.

(LandricFey mentioned the last one as well.)

p.s. Not sure about the boosting thread, though it would be interesting to hear the official position on selling runs.

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I added them to the first post.

It would be nice if SE would at least talk to their customers about this issue since it's such a large issue for so many of us. I'm not suggesting that they reveal their methods, but I do think that we as customers have a right to know more than we do, as well as receiving meaningful reassurance that our concerns are being addressed.

I know they are working hard on it, you can't dismiss 22,000 banned accounts over 2 weeks as not trying, but at the same time, the volume of spam and the number of farm 'bots does not appear to have diminished. I just feel that we deserve a bit more attention from the community managers due to the wide spread and severe nature of this issue throughout the game.

In the absence of communication, people often assume the worst. So, come on guys, talk to us. Let us know that you do in fact care about this as passionately as your customers do.