The amazing thing about "No Sol Bonus" in PF is...

...people rage when the PF group don't fill. I guess getting to ~8% each time still does not qualify you to join, right?

Then we cry about "this server suck" lol

Funny, mine fill fast enough. <_< And usually without the snakes that try to sneak in as "Been to 1% I'm good" without telling me in advance. So I kick them. And then instantly fill their spot.

Might be an issue on lower-pop servers though.

Funny thing about the no Sol bonus is that in my experience if you see the Sol bonus it means people want to progress so they actually win more than the ones that rage at one wipe.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

...people rage when the PF group don't fill. I guess getting to ~8% each time still does not qualify you to join, right?

Then we cry about "this server suck" lol

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This also happens a lot with recruitment in FCs, not only in FFXIV. It happened a lot in WoW. People basically want extremly geared players with a high progression in current content. My guild in WoW was pretty smart and we usually accepted not so geared players or without a big progression in current content and took them to a previous tier to test them. If they were good we'd accept them and help them gear up/kill bosses.

I have joined a few pfs with no sols allowed but before I do I always ask first, I only join if I'm 120% confident I know stuff

What I really HATE is when you create a practice/kill group for final phase and ppl join that don't even know the early stages.

If only I could have screenshotted and recorded the ridiculous amount of hours that adds up to days or weeks I've had wiping in FARM parties to content I am fluent in thanks to other people.

I can completely relate with wanting no nonsense farms. However in my own farms if someone tells me they have soldiery but have been to 8% or whatever and can handle the fight, I let them in. 9 times out of 10 they do perform good and we get some farm in.

I hate people who clearly paid for their clears, have no soldiery bonus and cause us 45 minutes of wipes until the whole party disbands as a result of the relentless failures. I'm tired of time loss with nothing to show for it because of these reasons =/

I never have a condition of "no sol bonus" in my parties. There's a number of reasons why someone might have the bonus (e.g. Character is an alt, or the person is competent but hasn't had good luck with finding parties that work), so I'm not one to bar them from trying.

My server, being as small as it is, makes it easy to remember faces if they lie.

Uhmm, sorry but, if I want a FARM PARTY, you're damned right I don't want persons leeching a win to join the group :P

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Funny thing about the no Sol bonus is that in my experience if you see the Sol bonus it means people want to progress so they actually win more than the ones that rage at one wipe.

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Not in my case

I dont think most people have an issue, if you tell the PF leader in advance.

The issue arises when you go in expecting no bonus, and one person has sneaked in. I usually accept people, just to try em, it never really works out.. however, sometimes it does.

My favorite is still T13 parties with "be able to one shot".

Ye ok buddy gl w/ that.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

My favorite is still T13 parties with "be able to one shot".

Ye ok buddy gl w/ that.

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ROFL yeah considering people all have different ways of doing things in T13 too. Anyone expecting to one shot that in party finder needs a reality check and possibly some time out of their basement.

Simply put, I want people to perform. Several times you can have "cleared 10000 times" wiping the group because of just not caring/being mentally challenged compared to someone who JUST wants to clear, is competent, and just makes it happen. I only care about someone's history with me, not their success or failure before my group. Say you are good and lie? Well that is what the /blist is for. :)

I don't blame people for putting "no soldiery bonus," honestly. It tends to scare off those people that don't know the fight at all but want to leech a win. My static has put that on our parties from time to time, but usually give people a chance if they have been to x% but haven't quite been able to finish the fight. Those people are usually pretty hungry for victory and tend to perform really well (if they are being truthful, that is). If they are obviously lying and wasting our time, we kick, blacklist, and replace. It's admittedly kind of a pain in the ass on 10 and 11 with the trash mobs.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

My favorite is still T13 parties with "be able to one shot".

Ye ok buddy gl w/ that.

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That's what keeps me from joining a lot of them. I have cleared four times now; only one of them was a one-shot clear. A lot of the parties want Out of a Bind II (I need one more clear for that but can't really prove it) and ask for people that can one-shot it. I can't guarantee that I won't derp given the different strategies out there, so I just wait to run it with my static. Yeah, basically they scare off a competent main tank because I don't want to deal with the drama. :|

I've done this before after being subjected to multiple soldiery bonus messages and wiping endlessly because someone tried to sneak a win in a farm party before the Second Coil nerfs. I don't blame anyone if they play the "no soldiery bonus message," card if they wanted to farm content for the loot. Of course, if someone who needs the kill but doesn't have it yet takes the time to send me a tell, I would be fine in bringing them provided they are telling the truth. Otherwise, if they do poorly it would be a kick and replace. Groups tend to fill up pretty fast though.

I understand the message myself and why it scares people. But that is why I tend to ask the party leaders if it's alright if I join because of reasons stated before already. Seen the fight twenty times over, but seven other people can't get their act together. I actually had to do this for my T11 clear. Carried my own weight, but passed my right to lot just to get into the party. Worked out in the end. It doesn't hurt to ask, but always remember that majority rules.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I don't blame people for putting "no soldiery bonus," honestly.

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Yeah it's the honest ones that send a tell and inquire before that do good, but those who just join saying nothing that problems arise. They are the ones that usually mess up big time.

Also, I wish FFXIV had Rifts server structure where you can friend with, party with and even visit and run content with players on different servers. As would totally grab you for some runs. XD I'm missing one t13 clear for the 10 clear achievement too ^_^

I like all the responses here.

I'm reminded of T9 when it became farmable. Before then, I ran it multiple times a day via learning and clear parties or as a sub to learn. When it became farmable, it was extremely difficult to convince people to let me join. I am now aimed at T11. That 8% is a beast. But still, I have Sol bonus.

I noticed that some of those who has a static wants to run Final Coil more, so they set up PF with restrictions. Serious question is why aren't they running with anyome from their group but get upset with 7 randoms?

Sol is a way to separate clearers from non-clearers, but I personally feel like if you want to farm with one-shot, don't always put it on PF. However, the other side of me gets peeved at folks who "knows up to Heavensfall" but stacking meteors.

"sol bonus" message serves absolutely nothing to the players other than creating a road block.

Sol bonus, is still a way to at least get some control over a farm group.

If someone joins, and tries to hide the fact they are the sold bonus, I'll kick them without a second thought. If however they message me stating they have gotten down to a low% but just haven't had a clear, I'll give them a chance, I'll also tell them beforehand i'll be watching them and if they are the cause of a wipe or a few wipes, they'll be out.

It might sound harsh to say 1 mistake = kick, but if you are coming into a farm party and you have sold bonus, I expect you to be the one that does it almost perfectly, as you are the one who REALLY wants that clear. If i see you make a mistake but it's an honest one and was just a bit of bad luck I'll let it slide, if I see you not stack for thermionic, place meteors in the wrong place, not clear your garrote or screw up divebombs, then sorry but those are within your control.

TL;DR, give the sold bonus guys a chance if they PM you beforehand, but just keep an eye on them. PF parties are so hit and miss, you either get a party that will clear it first time, or a party that will wipe you over and over again. There are a lot of people with clears, who just straight up don't really know what they are doing.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

My favorite is still T13 parties with "be able to one shot".

Ye ok buddy gl w/ that.

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Yeaaaaaaaaaaah about that 1 shot T13. Anyone who gets a fully random PF group and manages to 1 shot that fight before it gets echo, then honestly I fucking salute you.

No Sol Bonus.

If a person clears the content, then it is expected that they know how to deal with the mechanics for their specific job in relation to others.

That's the point.

Sol Bonus? Well there must be a reason why you weren't able to clear it before. <--- that's why we want No Sol Bonus. I don't care if you've seen up to 1%. Multiple Clears > near-clears.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Also, I wish FFXIV had Rifts server structure where you can friend with, party with and even visit and run content with players on different servers. As would totally grab you for some runs. XD I'm missing one t13 clear for the 10 clear achievement too ^_^

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That'd be fun, if we could party with people from other servers. :3

Hopefully I'll get my Out of a Bind II tonight, and maybe III this week (we raid Tue/Wed/Thur).

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I noticed that some of those who has a static wants to run Final Coil more, so they set up PF with restrictions. Serious question is why aren't they running with anyome from their group but get upset with 7 randoms?

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Trust me, I'd rather run with my static but they aren't always available. Differing RL schedules mean that there's very little overlap in when we're all available, those being our regular raid times. Sometimes 4/8 to 7/8 of my static will put up a PF and pug a few people, though a lot of the time this ends in misery because we get some really terrible pugs. -.-

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

That'd be fun, if we could party with people from other servers. :3

Hopefully I'll get my Out of a Bind II tonight, and maybe III this week (we raid Tue/Wed/Thur).

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We could party up, and be broladins.

Good luck for tonight!

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Originally Posted by Jamein

We could party up, and be broladins.

Good luck for tonight!

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Does that mean we shield bump instead of fist bumping?

And thanks. :3

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Does that mean we shield bump instead of fist bumping?

And thanks. :3

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We go next level, our shield lobs meet mid air, bounce back to us captain america style where we go back to back, planting our shields into peoples faces.

It's glorious.

Feel like the ones that complain about no soldiery bonus are also the ones that doesn't take the responsibility to start a clear/learning groups on PF.

There's plenty of both type of groups on Balmung, farming and clear groups.

I think if you say "Farming" then the assumption is that you really do know your shit. Just last night I was going for t9 clear, though this WAS a 50/50 of clear/not cleared, (yeah, still no luck...) and most*cough*ALL*cough* of our wipes were because people wouldn't watch for thunder... If you know the mechanics and how to deal with them, no problem. Honestly, because of the above situation, I want to just ask to join a farm and get this roadblock over with...

The problem (at least on my server) is that people automatically clear once and then jump straight to farming. Farm parties tend to be a disaster as a result. I spoke to one player recently that had cleared T11 three times, but refused to join a farm party until he had it absolutely 100% on lock. As such, he still joined clear parties only to get more and more experience. What an unbelievable breath of fresh air.

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

No Sol Bonus.

If a person clears the content, then it is expected that they know how to deal with the mechanics for their specific job in relation to others.

That's the point.

Sol Bonus? Well there must be a reason why you weren't able to clear it before. <--- that's why we want No Sol Bonus. I don't care if you've seen up to 1%. Multiple Clears > near-clears.

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Legit!

But remember, people get carried in most content then claim farm status. I seen a guy on the floor 2/3 the Shiva fight, AND won mount and weapon. I would later see him stinking it up in other Primals.

Here everyone is talking about farm parties for FCoB, while I deal with most of these issues when for EX Primals... The amount of people on my server who try to sneak in without a clear (that is, not even tell us before we move in) is astounding, let alone the amount who cant even play their class to the point that it'd be a carry.

On the opposite, i ended up 3 times in a Farmgrp for T10 with the same ninja pretending " 5%, but know the whole fight"... somehow, he still just kissed the floor every time the boss glanced his direction.

And well, T10 is a fight, when your mechanics are nice to you, you can luckily get down to 5% and still wipe by one missed out mechanic

And yet there are enough groups with no Soldiery bonus, which fail blatantly...

People just feel more confident with ppl who have a clear, still, you have derps on both camps...

I 100% agree with the people saying that ppl haven't cleared a fight are much more driven than ppl who already did.

Also, a MARVELOUS thing that always happens in those "no sol bonus" PF are ppl disagreeing on the strategy and complaining if the group does something differently from how THEY cleared it (e.g. "WTF you're dodging Twintania's divebombs from the center? you should be doing it from the depression in the corner").

Also, farm parties are for FCs and static groups, not PF.

As much as anyone would like to argue how well they know an encounter, if the soldiery bonus pertains to your experience, then you don't have a clear, and no matter how much you argue it, a lot of people don't want to deal with someone explicitly inexperienced for the entire duration of a clear.

More on topic, I never under any circumstances join a "no bonus" party. In my experience with these types of parties, the players are usually pure shit, and are not experienced enough in the fight to explain or handle the fight mechanics should something go wrong. The condition of no bonus is there because they (most often) require players with greater skill in order to help them succeed.

My server has been on a roller coaster with this dilemma. At first it was filled with, "No first timers, you'll be kicked" with a bunch of a stand offish know it alls who'd quit after the first wipe. I actually quit the game altogether for a good two weeks because I couldn't stand the general attitude (especially on VOIP.. Some people are extremely rude). Now the ilv is generally higher, around 125, but most messages are "Serious players only. If you cause a wipe you'll be politely kicked." It seems less care about if it's your first time, but rather if you can hold your own weight. I like that a lot more, considering I'm a firm believer that the status you hold isn't about how many titles you own, but how well you did on your last fight.

Ugh, people and their wipes. Why can't ffxiv death be like actual death?
Why you such an underachiever, KO? Be like your older brother, or the next generation of gamers are going to want to be paid for losing their HP!
Then how will we sell our clears?

/uttersarcasm

Communication goes a long way, in my experience, a person that can calmly explain the cause of the wipe is invaluable in keeping tempers down in parties.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Ugh, people and their wipes. Why can't ffxiv death be like actual death?
Why you such an underachiever, KO? Be like your older brother, or the next generation of gamers are going to want to be paid for losing their HP!
Then how will we sell our clears?

/uttersarcasm

Communication goes a long way, in my experience, a person that can calmly explain the cause of the wipe is invaluable in keeping tempers down in parties.

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I'd prefer to just outright kick them if they cannot explain to me where they made the mistake and how they can fix it. I don't have time to teach in a farm party. Maybe next time they will think twice about joining a farm party and assume someone is going to put up with their bulljunk.

Outside of farm parties, would you still consider this a good attitude to have? Cause the game community truly does have all kinds.

Explicitly said, I NEVER join "no sol bonus" parties. I rather have a root canal treatment without anesthesic while having a viking butcher tattooing my balls with glass shards.

People in those groups are the WORST kind of players in the entire game. I hate this kind of people with a passion. Why would I want to stress myself over a bunch of obnoxious imbeciles with brains the size of a peanut who only know to do 2 things: throwing offensive slurs at people for not being hardcore-grade players, and crying for not being spoon-fed one-shot clears.

People who make "no sol bonus" parties, you disgust me.
Your toxic behavior disgust me.
Your bad attitude towards human beings who did nothing wrong except causing a wipe and making you lose your "precious" little minutes disgust me.
Your lack of any sense of community disgust me.
Your individualism disgust me.
Your selfishness disgust me.

Personally I don't care if a person has sol bonus. If they pm'd the raid leader and let them know they know the fight just haven't cleared, I got no issue. The thing that's been getting to me more and more lately is the damn ilvl requirement. I'm trying to gear my alt (ilvl 115 Blm) and putting a i120 requirement in T10 and 11 is ridiculous. My main is i130 with 10-13 on farm for quite a long time. And when I pm the raid leader informing him/her on my situation, I get ignored or denied. ilvl doesn't equate to skill, and I guarantee, my 115 BLM can out dps and handle mechanics better than half the i120+ on the server. Just a gripe.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Also, farm parties are for FCs and static groups, not PF.

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My static often goes to PF to rep one or two people that can't be on.

PF is for whatever you specify it to be for your party.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Explicitly said, I NEVER join "no sol bonus" parties. I rather have a root canal treatment without anesthesic while having a viking butcher tattooing my balls with glass shards.

People in those groups are the WORST kind of players in the entire game. I hate this kind of people with a passion. Why would I want to stress myself over a bunch of obnoxious imbeciles with brains the size of a peanut who only know to do 2 things: throwing offensive slurs at people for not being hardcore-grade players, and crying for not being spoon-fed one-shot clears.

People who make "no sol bonus" parties, you disgust me.
Your toxic behavior disgust me.
Your bad attitude towards human beings who did nothing wrong except causing a wipe and making you lose your "precious" little minutes disgust me.
Your lack of any sense of community disgust me.
Your individualism disgust me.
Your selfishness disgust me.

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You rail at toxicity and yet you word a post like this. o.O

So what you're saying is if a party of 7/8 static is looking for one person to farm with, we should take someone that has no idea of the fight mechanics and spend three hours teaching them? That seems counterproductive to what we're trying to achieve - farming. Why does that make us bad players? I'll agree that verbally abusing people for causing wipes is wrong. One should be considerate even when removing problem players from the party. There's no sense in being cruel. Being abusive and being "hardcore" aren't synonymous, though. I've met just as many abusive newbies as I have abusive endgame players. Everybody should play nice, but unfortunately not everybody does.

One-shot clears aren't spoon fed to anyone. They're achieved by knowing the mechanics of a fight. Do I expect every clear to be a one-shot? No. We're human. Everyone messes up sometimes. Do I expect at least a reasonable shot at multiple clears? Absolutely. Does that exist with someone that only knows the first two phases of the fight? Not reasonably. If I'm looking to farm and someone claims that they know the fight but then they wipe us repeatedly, what am I supposed to think? Maybe they're just having a bad day. Maybe they really don't know the fight. The end result is the same - 7 other people aren't getting done what we set out to get done.

I really don't know where this sense of entitlement comes from. People that have no experience in the fight feel entitled to clears that they haven't earned. The thing is, anyone can earn those clears as long as they're willing to put in some effort. Watch some video guides. Go out and join some learning parties. Hell, make your own learning parties. Get yourself to the point where you really do know the fight, and plenty of people will be more than willing to help you get the clear. Like I said in a previous post, I'm more than willing to give people a shot even if they have a soldiery bonus message. If it becomes obvious that they really don't know the fight though, they'll be out of the party very quickly.