Is there any chance that X-Potions of Strength can get a crafting adjustment to NOT include Shark Oil? Looking at the other X-Potions Of individual material, they all seem to be able to get them relatively easy or in near infinite supply. Pudding Flesh being only slightly less annoying to get. But Strength requires Shark Oil, which requires a whole other craft, then getting 2 more items that are relatively "rare", with the worse being Silver Sharks. Like maybe just Hammerheads which would still make slight sense since the others use things like frogs and scorpions.
How does that make sense as is?
X-Potions of Strength Adjustment?
Printable View
-
04-08-2015, 10:42 AMzeth07X-Potions of Strength Adjustment?
-
04-08-2015, 07:20 PMelemental10
In real life, if I know those potions include frogs and scorpions, I would steer well away from them.
-
04-08-2015, 08:10 PMHighwilds
How does it make any sense of what? Potions are alchemy and shark oil actually IS alchemy. Rest of the ingredients are not as they're all from gathering jobs. Them being "rare" (expensive) ingredients for you doesn't mean SE should make adjustments to it.
Fisher retainer can fetch you 3 sharks per 1 hour, which you can select either hammerheads (lv29) or silver sharks (lv 41). -
04-09-2015, 01:34 AMXenosan
It is annoying that str-xpots require a material that requires a fish only gatherable via mooch.
Like Drei said though, having a fisher retainer does alleviate the problem to a degree. -
04-09-2015, 03:21 AMzeth07I'm not even talking about it being expensive since I am as self-sufficient as possible, but that just helps my point even further. And I only have 2 retainers and *neither of them are* fisher but if what you say is true about 3 per hour even THAT helps my point MORE. *Changed my wording about retainers since it implied 1 of them could have been fisher lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwilds
1 Venture = 1 Hour = 30 Black Scorpions
1 Venture = 1 Hour = 30 Dart Frogs
1 Venture = 1 Hour = 15 Grenade Ash
1 Venture = 1 Hour = 10 Pudding Flesh
1 Venture = 1 Hour = 3 Silver Sharks
1 Venture = 40 Minutes = 3 Hammerhead Sharks
The X-Potions are all the same category of items, share the same functional use, and share the exact same crafting materials except those "individual" items. Without even getting into it further you can already see that X-Potions of Strength using "Shark Oil" makes no sense because it's an extra CRAFTED item that's required. So even ignoring the items, that's 5 more shards per craft that the others don't need to do.
Now lets look at the actual items involved:
- X-Potion of Dexterity = Dart Frog = Can gather an infinite supply with ease (100% rate) and minimum time spent OR can get 30 per hour from 1 Venture
- X-Potion of Intelligence = Black Scorpion = Can gather an infinite supply with ease (100% rate) and minimum time spent OR can get 30 per hour from Venture
- X-Potion of Vitality = Grenade Ash = Can gather an infinite supply with ease (100% rate) and minimum time spent OR 15 per hour from Venture
- X-Potion of Mind = Pudding Flesh = Can acquire from leves (3 each) or 10 per hour from Venture
- X-Potion of Strength = SHARK OIL = Must craft, Hammerheads can be acquired through RNG fishing or 3 per 40 minutes from 1 Venture, Silver Sharks can be acquired through even worse RNG mooch fishing or 3 per hour per venture = 2 Ventures per 1hr40m
COSTS, current MB prices:
Dart Frog = 80g per at 12 quantity, 100g per for a stack of 99 = 9,900g for 99
Black Scorpion = 400g per or 650g per for 99 = 64,350g for 99
Grenade Ash = 24g per, a lot of random prices, so 50g for 99 = 4,950g for 99
Pudding Flesh = 290g per, high quantity for 350g per so = 34,650g for 99
SHARK OIL = LOWEST 4,460g per so 99 = 441,540g for 99
Try to tell me that makes sense.
But ok lets say you don't want to buy, but you'll spend ventures. I'll round the numbers as close to 90 to make it easier.
Dart Frogs = 3 Ventures = 90
Black Scorpion = 3 Ventures = 90
Grenade Ash = 6 Ventures = 90
Pudding Flesh = 9 Ventures = 90
SHARK OIL = 60 VENTURES = 90 / 30 Ventures for Hammerheads + 30 Ventures for Silver Sharks, even if you're generous and only use ventures for Silver Sharks that's still an absurd amount above even the next highest.
How does THAT make any sense either? -
04-09-2015, 03:36 AMAnubis_Nephthys
Zeth makes a good point. PLUS, there are 4 classes that use STR potions, 2 that use INT potions, 2 (counting whm) that use MIND potions, and 2 that use DEX. So, in addition to being the most expensive, they are the most sought after.
-
04-09-2015, 03:44 AMNomad-phx
whats really annoying is the fact we're still using 2 star potions. biggest disappointment whenever new recipes get released is alch never getting better potions.
-
04-09-2015, 04:30 AMHighwilds
Be self-sufficient like you said and go fish. The RNG isn't really that bad for the sharks.
-
04-09-2015, 05:16 AMzeth07Do not even try and give me that as reasoning. I DO go fish for my own stuff, which is entirely my point. The time spent and general actions required to GET the Shark Oil greatly outweigh the others to the point that it makes no logical sense for it to be included in the same type of recipe as the others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwilds
Another point I'll make, Black Scorpions are used in a grand total of THREE items. Know what kind of items? Medicine. Meaning mass quantity + using multiple times. Want to know how many items use SHARK OIL? TWENTY SIX. The majority of those items are actually pieces of equipment that last basically forever, so it is reasonable for them to use Shark Oil. But for some strange reason Shark Oil is also used in the Mega and X-Potions of Strength, along with the worthless Drop items. My point here is that Shark Oil has plenty of uses elsewhere that for them to not be included in this recipe sure wouldn't be the end of the world for whatever markets are involved.
The other items used are in the 41-45 range, so even 46-50 would be ok in my opinion if it allowed for the same ease of access as the others.
46-50 Botany = Lava Toad
41-45 Hunting/Mining -> 46-50 actual Mining = Basilisk Egg
46-50 Hunting/Mining -> 46-50 actual Mining = Ogre Horn
If for whatever reason they felt that particular ingredient HAD to be a Reagent then,
46-50 Hunting = Ahriman Wing
Which would be at least less annoying to get than mooching for Silver Sharks and having to fish for Hammerheads and having to do an extra craft. At the same time it would match venture quantities with Pudding Flesh, which is reasonable as well. -
04-09-2015, 05:27 AMHighwilds
No matter how much you want to justify it, go fish instead of complain about it here.
-
04-09-2015, 05:44 AMChameleonMSFollowing your advice would not produce desired change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwilds
Providing as much detailed information as he did, has clearly shown how blatant the disparity amongst the potions is.
He is asking for a call to action on re-balancing the game. That is good thing. -
04-09-2015, 05:50 AMBloody
It is somewhat ironic in my opinion that the most expensive (gil and/or time-consuming) potions to make are also the ones that are most used. In someways it perpetuates a stable market, with higher cost of goods and higher sale prices due to higher demand, but I do believe the OP makes a good point about the level of disparity between COG and demand/consumption not being equivalent across the board. Hopefully the next level of potions remedy this.
-
04-09-2015, 06:29 AMzeth07Just to entertain you I went and fished for some Silver Sharks so I could prepare for my raid tonight, here are the results I got before the fish decided something was amiss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwilds
62 NQ Merlthor Goby
7 NQ Wahoo
1 HQ Wahoo (the game decided this was the perfect time for something to be amiss, thus losing out on a silver shark)
7 NQ Silver Shark
2 HQ Silver Sharks
A whopping NINE Silver Sharks for whatever amount of time that was, not counting the time I will now have to go spend getting Hammerhead sharks.
How long do you think it'll take me to get 9 Dart Frogs, Black Scorpions, or Grenade Ash? Literally seconds.
There is no way to justify it.
EDIT:
I'll add some more math for you. Each cast takes about 30 secs. So there's 70 casts that I completely wasted my time on just based on the useless fish I got. So that's 35 minutes right there. Those 8 Wahoos actually include 8 more casts for Gobies, so 4 more minutes = 39 minutes wasted. Then I actually got 9 Silver Sharks, and let's just be generous and say I got them directly from HQ Gobies and not even consider double mooch off HQ Wahoos. So that's 18 more casts = 9 more minutes.....
= 48 TOTAL MINUTES for 9 Silver Sharks
I am pretty sure I can get an entire stack of 99 of any normal gathering item like Dart Frogs / Black Scorpions / Grenade Ash in less than 48 Total Minutes. But getting 9 Silver Sharks in the same amount of time is somehow perfectly reasonable for the X-Potions of Strength. -
04-09-2015, 02:30 PMDenebPunkin
You already made a very nice and thorough explanation for the very large discrepancy between the STR SX-Pots and the other ones, you then provided further evidence that utterly destroyed Highwilds odd attempt at trying say there is no problem at all.
We need to make SE aware of this as this really is a very unfair drawback for STR X-pots that non of the other X-pots have at all. Its not so much the items that are the issue, but the means, time and resources required to acquire them and STR X-pots have too many restrictions to come any where near the mass production capabilities the other potions have.
Well done. -
04-09-2015, 05:07 PMHighwilds
Yes, I shouldn't have replied when I was tired and annoyed. My apologies.
Strength potions have high demand -> high prices due to items for it time consuming to get -> more difficult to be efficiently self-sufficient time wise.
That's where it comes to the game being MMO where you can't rely 100% on yourself all the time and SE has made it so on purpose. To save time, people try get everything the easiest way: If one can get money with one craft/gathering job, they make it to buy the items they don't want to spend time to get themselves. In this case the sharks. There's plenty of fishers who get their money that way because it's time consuming and they have the time where others don't. That's how the market works.
That's why I do not see the Strength potion "broken and unbalanced" but "working as intended." -
04-27-2015, 09:01 AMDenebPunkinOK that makes more sense and I get what you are saying.. but again the drawbacks are just unfair in regards to the STRX-Pots. They require 2 very specific and very limited resources that the others dont. Eithe make it so all Pots require a fish as an ingredient... or make them require some other item that all have the same level of difficulty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwilds
-
05-05-2015, 07:13 AMNeyka
I understand why a fisher would want this to stay the same (it's a nice source of revenue for fishers), but for a melee dps, the price of x-potions of strength is prohibitive for most people.
For a dps trying to maximize their dps output, it is significantly cheaper for a caster or dex based class to use potions than it is for a strength based class, by an order of at least 7, which means that for the same cost, a melee dps pays more in a single night of raiding than other classes pay for a week of x-potions.
That said, this close to Heavensward, I seriously doubt they'll change anything, but I sure hope the next tier of potions is much more comparable in costs/time investment. -
05-06-2015, 02:22 AMZephyrZThis isn't the first time I'm seeing a thread related to X-Pots of Str, square rarely, very very rarely goes back and changes recipes. In fact, I can only remember it happening once in the past in 2.2 for a single item. So while i agree that they are a pain and unfair when compared to the other X-Pots, i can't see any changes being made to them. However, that doesn't mean that there isn't hope for the future. 3.0 will more than likely bring out new level 60 XX-Pots, hopefully those have reasonable recipes and comparable difficulty to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by DenebPunkin
There are other things; I'd rather seem them address first tho such as a
"Book of Glamors",
"Separate Inventory from Retainers for crafting mats",
"Cross server mb that has stacks, buy orders, sell orders",
"Cross server party finder groups",
"Cross server friends list",
"Cross server visitation",
"Chocobo summon that doesn't break duty queue",
"1v1 PvP mode",
"Triple triad matches anywhere in the world, not just Golden Saucer",
"Proper triple triad tournament",
"Realistic drop rates from gold packs",
"Betting on chocobo races that have npc's / pc's",
"Blitzball in Golden Saucer?",
"Better queue times",
"More thought into PvP overall",
"Not poo looking summoner pets",
"Decent voice acting and more voice over in story related content",
"Overall housing rework, such as change dimensions of a partition so it doesn't take 3-4 to make a wall, more space allowed, workable balcony door, animal herding, just overall more, a mansion should have been like a massive house with lots of farm space and herding space.",
"Dungeon ownership, FC's fight for control over dungeons. FC A owns a dungeon, time trial is run and the FC that has the fastest time gets to challenge the owner. A massive PvP 32vs32 FCvsFC slaughter ensues in that dungeon where holding objectives is key. Best of 3 match. Dungeon owner gets to tax the dungeon, say 1% of all gil earned in the month is put into the owner's chest"
but i highly doubt any of that will ever be implemented. If we do get more inventory space, chances are it's going to cost another $2 per retainer. GW2 did most of the above really well but had it's own issues as well. Massive wish list of item's that will probably never be seen.