Look, I get it. Stupid people do stupid things... but how the hell are we supposed to get this stuff done if people just poof after the first wipe? Been stuck on T5 for many months because one wipe happens, people bicker, and then they get offended and leave.
Come on, it's a long queue even for healers. Stahp.
Abandoning a Duty? Just Stahp...
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04-07-2015, 08:57 AMFreyarAbandoning a Duty? Just Stahp...
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04-07-2015, 09:08 AMElusana_Celah
Behemoth has T5 on farm for the most part. You can party finder requesting a clear and saying you got sol bonus, 80% chance you get a clear group :P
T9 clears the same way are about 40% chance.
Duty finder seems to fill people with a "don't care" attitude. They don't know who you are and have no reason to care so entitlement settles in and "screw this you all suck" settles in too. I sometimes solo queue for T9 in DF just for the lolz because I have over 40 T9 clears and am highly skilled at the fight. I just hang out there watching people bicker, people ragequitting out. It's literally the same as watching two 8 year olds arguing in a playground LOL.
I should also mention that none of them are interested in any advice I may have regarding the fight :P -
04-07-2015, 09:11 AMSpookyGhost
Yeah, you'll want to PF T5 if you're not having any luck in DF.
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04-07-2015, 01:25 PMFreyar
It's going that way. It'll be group only. Very disappointing, really.
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04-07-2015, 03:01 PMKotemon
What really bugs me is when you check that box to join an existing party only to realize 2/3 bailed in under 15 minutes. It creates a queue trap for any one searching with the same settings to join a dead party. Leaving them no choice but to wait until it passes the 15 minute mark to abandon it or to leave duty early. Not to sure if leaving an active duty could result in a penalty on DF.
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04-07-2015, 03:14 PMkyuvenIf you join an unfilled group that's bailing, just leave. The penalty only exists for leaving full groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotemon
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04-07-2015, 05:24 PMWerhuskyIf I get in those empty duties I simply wait for the 15min to "abandon" to delete the duty so noone will get it anymore and the space in DF is open again.Quote:
Originally Posted by kyuven
To OPs question... I see the point but on other hand I enjoy with my static when we lack someone DF randoms... unusual setup one chooses up to 5 duties and we go 3 wipes (15 min) or one clear.... so when our drg is healing and the monk tanking and out maintank is on DPS could be we mess a lot (considering T9 where we didnt get a DF clear yet) :S -
04-07-2015, 06:46 PMLalaRuToo bad the DPS have to restart their queue wait. Wish you need wait at least 5 minutes before leave without penalty if you get added into an incomplete party.Quote:
Originally Posted by kyuven
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04-07-2015, 10:31 PMKyteStones
One thing that's really irking me lately... is I queue up for Shiva EX in the DF to teach my wife how to do the fight. She's been doing great and she has about 4 clears and I have it on farm so naturally when I go into a DF for it, I'm not expecting perfection, but I'm expecting some patience and the willingness to learn. I explain the fights all the time and usually there's always that one guy after the first wipe who refuses to do anything more in the group. He'll stand there and talk trash about whats going wrong *cough* ninja getting hit by Shiva's insta-kill *cough* and proceed to try to blame and shame people who are struggling but adapting.
I went through about 5 DF runs last night, and got them all clears with explaining the fight, what to do and how to fix problems and bounce back. My whole 4th hotbar is macros for this stuff.
On my last run, we wiped and got the 15% echobuff, and thats when the fight started. The tank kept spinning Shiva around with the insta-kill move and wiping the whole party to which he blamed us and tried to vote to abandon. Mind you we got her around roughly 5%-8% the attempt before. He wouldn't take responsibility and proceeded to blame everyone else for dying. We tried to explain what he's doing wrong only to be met with "you should KNOW the fight by now, this shouldnt be an issue, get it together or else I'll wipe you on purpose". He and his "friend" tried voting to abandon and when they were rejected they started being the most ignorant people I've seen since Titan HM elitists. He was warned and after intentionally wiping us, we vote kicked him. Got a new tank in with full i130, said he'd solo tank and we downed it fast and was extremely nice through out the run.
People need to start having patience in the Duty Finder. If you want it done faster and your way, make a party in the Party Finder. If you come in, wipe, and leave then what was the point? You've wasted not only your time, but 3 to 7 other peoples time. -
04-07-2015, 10:46 PMDragoon4life
yeah that sux I my self paid 700k for a T5 carry group. Not proud of it but after being stuck for 6 months on DF, PF and getting friends with clears. I'm glad I pursued crafting and finishing all my beast tribe quest's. The good ol days when 1 sealant used to be 400k to 500k felling like a balla. So the sting wasn't too bad.
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04-07-2015, 11:44 PMraela
I queued as scholar into an in progress garuda hm today.. 45 mins to go, had 2 tanks and 1 dps. I was quite confused, but they were excited to try, so I figured to myself I'd stick around for one wipe and if it looked bad, I'd drop out (since I just wanted to finish a mahatma off before work).
Was a little slow and I saw phases that I hadn't seen in quite awhile, but we did clear it! I was able to keep everyone alive through the big aoe (almost all rocks down, one tank only survived with 100 HP), then a whm joined soon after. Picked up two dps during the fight and never got the fourth. I didn't ask what led to that party in the first place, but I was curious.. -
04-08-2015, 12:21 AMJimboTCB
If you can't beat a duty first time by rolling your face around on your keyboard and getting carried, it's clearly either overtuned or not worth the effort.
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04-08-2015, 12:31 AMAreeyaJaidee
This thread is about ppl whining because someone wastes their time by quitting a group they feel is a waste of their time...
Aren't both sides correct in these situations? Both don't want their time wasted. If you wipe on easy stuff like dungeons and t5... Then it means one or more ppl in the group are expecting a carry. By that I mean, they could have prepped more for content that is oldish and well documented... Plus echo effect
If ppl feel their time is wasted, why rant that its unjustified? Its hypocritical... Chances are they have either better things to do than wipe while waiting for less competent ppl 2 get good. -
04-08-2015, 12:38 AMHaywardNo. If the fight relies too much on overlapping mechanics and RNG factors to confuse and frustrate non-elitist players, it is overtuned.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboTCB
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04-08-2015, 12:44 AMmyahele
Don't know about your server, but in my server there are people that were giving a away free Coil and Primal clears during christmas.
The are also people willing to do it for free for the 100 sold bonus (though this died down)
Thereare also occasionally (but rare now) learning parties where some already cleared the fight, but are willing to teach people for free in PF. This was how I go my clear. After only 3 wipes and being taught we cleared. -
04-08-2015, 01:16 AMAnapingofnessOr you know, they're learning the fight still. Not everyone has a static that they can learn with and not everyone has an FC that is capable of helping them through coil. So the only way some people can learn those fights is through DF.Quote:
Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee
T5 used to be quite challenging when it first came out. Now that those who have cleared it and farmed it not only know the fight, but are over geared like you wouldn't believe, of course it is easy to say that the content is "easy".
But no, instead let's just get on our high horse and say that all of these people want to be carried.
Ffs, why do people bother queuing up for roulettes if they aren't prepared for the possibility that they might run into newbies and people with limited experience? -
04-08-2015, 01:20 AMAlexionSkylark
I have noticed this attitude a lot the past few months...
It's funny, because I always say "oh great, now that we got the boss to 40% you wanna bail? you do realize the next group is gonna be just as bad as this one, right? with the difference that you'll start back again at wiping on 80%."
Some people just don't get it. -
04-08-2015, 01:32 AMRayneBoemir
Sometimes it's better to just bail you know it's pretty bad when you ask if anyone needs directions or if they know the fight and no one responds.
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04-08-2015, 01:45 AMAreeyaJaideeBoth parties have Party Finder at their disposal. Your cynicism is cute though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anapingofness
At least you gave it a good try, now look: stop trying to insinuate elitism and demonify me for stating observations from personal experience. I stated a fact in that, old content is well documented in many forms. If people want to be relevant in a duty then they should go into it with not just expectations but knowledge. Otherwise they are a disservice to everyone else that took the time to ensure they were prepared.
Simply stating someone is new and therefore incapable aren't the issue here. Its not the implication I'm addressing rather its the actuality of events that take place wherein one who is less experienced expects the gratuity of strangers without implied effort on their own part to be accommodating to the needs of others as well.
Newbiness doesn't warrant disregard to the practicality of preparedness. Its a lesson more seasoned players have learned the hard way through the exact same reiterations of past failure. Is it wrong to ask newer people to learn from the experience of others?
Those "high horses" are simply all too familiar with failure. Which is usually why they resist the occasion when possible to experience more.
Be intelligent, not just a witch hunter. -
04-08-2015, 01:53 AMAdamFyiSorry buddy, I have to correct you there. If the fight requires any thinking whatsoever, it is overtuned. Prime example would be the Steps of Faith. /sQuote:
Originally Posted by Hayward
Jokes aside, the only time where I have to question people when it comes to abandoning is when they don't want to eat the penalty.
Eh, people just have high expectations I guess. The rewards for completing the daily roulettes are pretty enticing. Add the fact that we have the whole ' we want everything now now now' mentality (*cough* relic quest chain *cough*) into the mix, and you get players who want everything to run super fast and super efficient. I can understand where they're coming from though. The dungeons do get repetitive after the first few weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anapingofness
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04-08-2015, 02:18 AMZaftRemember back in the day when people would rise to the challenge, instead of bitch and moan for the challenge to be lowered to their level?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward
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04-08-2015, 04:03 AMAnapingofnessAlright, I'll bite.Quote:
Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee
Firstly, I didn't try to do anything here, much less insinuate elitism. If I wanted to call you an elitist, I would have. And I certainly didn't attempt to vilify you. Instead, I too called it like I saw it (albeit with a dash of sarcasm).
In my experience, I have seen very little tolerance for newbies.
It didn't matter if they were prepared or not- to the eyes of some of the more experienced players they were all looking for carries. Nevermind the fact that I've seen a lot of experienced players derp around because they queued up for a duty they didn't particularly want to do, but wanted the tomes/gear/etc that drops from it.
Now, I'm not saying all newbies bother looking things up. I'm sure that a good amount of them decide to do whatever they want. However, a good amount of newbies also do their homework before entering DF or PF.
Secondly, just what more do you want newbies to do apart from look up guides, tips, and watch videos?
Eventually, they will have to get hands on experience and it will take some time before they get it down. That is of course if people bother sticking around for a wipe. Half the time you'll get people who just leave because there is a newbie in the group.
Thirdly- I'm placing this here just in case it needs to be said. I am of the idea that selling runs/clears is wrong and downright detrimental. I am also of the idea that newbies, especially newbies, should have to learn the mechanics of fights first before they can SR anything. So, I aim to help teach newbies that I come across so that they know how to handle the mechanics. The whole give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish thing.
That being said, it is normal not to want to keep wiping on content, especially when you know how to do that content. I have never argued this fact. I'll be the first to say that it is aggravating when it keeps happening. However, the lack of tolerance and patience from some of the experienced players is downright stupid. We all had to learn at some point. -
04-08-2015, 04:42 AMKedrah
I just really hate vote abandon. I'm not the type of person who likes to quit no matter what's going wrong, and I especially hate to be forced to quit against my will (I always vote no but rarely does it matter).
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04-08-2015, 05:16 AMDoctorPepper
You really should make a party finder group for T5 and T9. Unless you get really lucky and end up with a party who knows the entire fight it will be difficult to get the win regardless of people abandoning, the queues are long for those because the DF is not an effective tool for completing them and it's as simple as that. If you're too lazy to make a PF group (not saying you are) then you shouldn't be complaining about people leaving when they don't think a party can complete the duty. All it takes is a couple bad people in T5 or a single bad person in T9 and most groups will not complete them.
I'm sure the people who want to abandon hate being forced to stay against their will as well. The lockout makes vote abandon the only valid option if the majority of players do not want to continue and it takes at least half the players voting yes to work. I've been in parties where I stuck around for the entire duration and didn't win and I regret staying in every one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kedrah
If everybody was willing to kick people who want to leave instead of insulting them and refusing to kick them out of shear spite then there probably wouldn't be as many people who abandon. One person would get kicked and it gives other people an opportunity to leave without penalty as well. -
04-08-2015, 06:45 AMKedrahI've been in my share of plenty of parties that went terribly, but I'm really stubborn on that front and I always want to stick it out no matter what. :P As you said the better solution really is to be able to feasibly kick the people who want to leave instead of either forcing people to stay or forcing them to leave. It'd be nice if we had a "wanted to leave" option on the vote dismiss but I can see that being horribly abused, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorPepper