Summoner or Blackmage

I know this question has been posted a dozen times over but nothing recently nor browsing them did I find my question answered.

So I started the game about 2 weeks ago I decided I like the Blackmage the Summoner and the Dragoon. I leveled them all up enough to know that while I like the animations of the Dragoon I don't like the rotation. Which leaves Summoner and Blackmage.

I like the explodyness of the Blackmage. The big hits make me feel super powerful and I really don't find survivability to be an issue. I've really enjoyed what I've played so far.

I like the micromanagment of the Summoner. Keeping all my dots on the target and watching it's health tick away makes me laugh and feel like some kind of super poisoning monster. That being said because I don't see any numbers for my pets damage it feels underpowered in comparison to the Blackamge.

I'm having issues deciding between the two classes and was hoping for some advice keeping the following in mind...

I hear that they are going to fix dot damage in the game with the xpac making speed affect it. Which should give the Summoner a buff and one of my guildies told me yesterday we need a dedicated Summoner for our raids.

I do enjoy both classes but I feel the Blackmage has a little more instant gratification then the Summoner and it most definately plays faster. I find I enjoy the Blackmage just a LITTLE bit more then the summoner. That being said with the two previous points I mentioned what would you advise?

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Originally Posted by Obeliske

I find I enjoy the Blackmage just a LITTLE bit more then the summoner.

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Says it all, at this point before Heavensward play whatever you enjoy most.

tbh, as they both have shared gear, except for the weapon, choose the mage what is best suited for the fight you're going to tackle.
I'd never take my BLM over my SMN on Leviathan for example while BLM is so much easier than SMN at Shiva (your pet seriously gives you too much headaches than it's worth it).

Most will tell you, until the expansion comes our way black mage should be your go to for endgame. Endgame aside, its a mixture of preference and practicality. I personally still play Summoner myself because I've done so since BcoB. However much of the community, and I'm inclined to agree, feel it is lacking, at least when it comes to the "Summoner" feel of past games. Black Mage sounds like your match until the expansion or at least more news of it comes to light.

Why not both?

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Why not both?

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Joining an end-game raid static with 2 melee makes you easier to gear both caster :D

BLM masterrace.

Better AoE and Single Target damage.

Well, BLM is better right now, simple as that... but it doesn't really matter so close to the expansion.

Like someone said earlier though, you can play both, since they share gear with each-other.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Why not both?

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http://media.tumblr.com/4224ef50660a...TI71sf93f6.gif

In all honesty, blm is currently the best casting dps class in the game easy to use and easy to kill with.

I also agree, while smn is not as potent damage wise as blm it still brings value to the group.

I say play both. I do and I find different uses for each. I am still farming alex maps and SMN is by far the easiest to farm with, especially in regards to survivability. I also use SMN for Beast Tribe dailies and other various grind. Dot the enemy up move to next and let my pet finish them off or the dots whatever is faster.

Also in regards to casual raids I get mixed opinions on what to go as. Healer dies and on BLM I wish I could swift cast raise. But AoE Groups on SMN I wish I was BLM.

Very few people that play SMN are actually happy with it. The job feels as if it was rushed and half-assed. It lacks decent viuals and connection to lore. Egis are a joke asthetically and could use a lot of work gameplay-wise to make them more interesting. BLM is a bit spammy for my taste, so I still prefer SMN.

If you enjoy blm more than smn now. Stick to blm because the longer you play smn the more and more you're just going to feel disappointed. Its a slight difference at first but the effect snowballs.

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Originally Posted by Imoye

Very few people that play SMN are actually happy with it. The job feels as if it was rushed and half-assed. It lacks decent viuals and connection to lore. Egis are a joke asthetically and could use a lot of work gameplay-wise to make them more interesting. BLM is a bit spammy for my taste, so I still prefer SMN.

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and this is exactly why.

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

BLM masterrace.

Better AoE and Single Target damage.

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The base numbers for each SMN DoT is 135 potency every 3 seconds. Garuda adds 100. We're at 235. Ruin 1 and you're at 315. If you can do it, Ruin II + auto attacks gets the number closer to 340 potency on single target per GCD without Fester and Rouse. BLM does not even come close, especially due to RNG of procs and suffering a bigger DPS loss from movement.

On any fight involving <5 targets, Bane + Miasma II increase the SMN AoE potency to 155 (more than F2). BLM beats SMN at 5+ mobs but this only matters in dungeon SRs and not endgame. T12 and T13 (only fights that matter with 5+ adds being AoEd together at once) are short and SMNs Enkindle+Aerial Slash for all of those add phases give it the damage equivalent of 1.5 flares ontop of the other dots so it's not far behind in damage. Needing to hold DPS and focus single target on Big Bennus hurts BLM more than SMN as well IMO.

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Originally Posted by loldrg

BLM does not even come close.

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Huh, where did you get this idea?
Were you ignoring Astral Fire's impact on potency when calculating all this on paper? Because the reality is far different from what you describe.

I prefer SMN atlest 1 in my team since they can maintaining their Dmg while running dodge stuff and I don't think SMN do less less Dmg than BLM tho It's just about that burst dmg of BLM and SMN has raise :)

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Originally Posted by Veqluna

I prefer SMN atlest 1 in my team since they can maintaining their Dmg while running dodge stuff and I don't think SMN do less less Dmg than BLM tho It's just about that burst dmg of BLM and SMN has raise :)

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I don't want to sound like an elitist, but if a BLM is good at his/her job, they will produce more DPS. If you have to constantly move, then yes, SMN wins on DPS, but there isn't really that much content where you can't stand still for longer periods.

The only reason they haven't buffed SMN yet, is because of 3.0 and more specifically the SS change... Cause if they buff SMN now to be balanced, it could get out of hand in the expansion.

It all depends on how big of a change the SS will be, but the SS stat weight for SMN right now is something like 0.098, while Det is 0.284...

Lets say you have 481 SS right now, that gives you around 47 weighted int with the current SS system... Now lets say SS gets buffed enough that it gives you a stat weight of 0.22 for SMN (would be great if it was that high), then you would get 105 weighted int, that increase is enormous, and it would make the balancing between BLM and SMN very hard (BLM wouldn't gain much from the SS buff). Hard if they had buffed SMN now that is...

Play the one you like most.

But a few points:
-Both pull caster decent numbers in coil neither should have an issue pulling 500+
-BLM is slightly easier to gear IMO less min/max tinkering
-Will get less dodgy looks as a BLM, most people assume SMNs are horrible.

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Originally Posted by loldrg

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I don't think you know what you're talking about, at all. Like, at all

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Originally Posted by Craiger

The only reason they haven't buffed SMN yet, is because of 3.0 and more specifically the SS change... Cause if they buff SMN now to be balanced, it could get out of hand in the expansion.

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They could rebalance in the expansion. The reason they haven't been buffed is because their skills are bound with scholar dps skills.

Nerf BLM, problem solved.

i play smn so i am biased to it. my opinion to it is that whatever smn may lack in the burst damage area is compensated by being the only dps class that can battle res. also, an idle smn is still doing damage through their egis, which blms cannot afford to do so... although i am not saying that you be an afk smn in raids or whatever content. my only wish is that future content will focus more on the egis rather than giving the job more dots.

i just got smn to 50 as my caster of choice before expansion, since no new caster is coming. Also that lvl60 smn af gear looks beautiful, long white pointy horn, and that garuda wing book O.o

so far my impressions are that fester is cool, its like setting up charges (dots) then fester to blow it up, sucks that miasma2 doesn't count. Enkindle seems weak as for it's recast. Only 2 useful cross class skills (swift, raging). bio2 cast a bit too long.

Black Mage all the way when you hit that triple Flare you'll never look back to Summoner.

I start the game as BLM and after got my atma relic (before nerf), I changed to SMN and I like it and now I have my Zeta.

BLM has more WOW factor by doing BIG numbers and kill fast, But it's boring and feel very slow to me, Unlike SMN u can move and dodge freely while doing dps via dot and pet, As SMN res died peoples is very fun, I saved my party from wipe many times when healers dies.

I am feel SMN has more room to improve in future by add more pets and abilities, For me SMN just need making Tri-disaster more useful like increase Potency to 100 and Radius to 5y or so after testing balance, And lowering Enkindle CD to 120s.

I hope SE on 3.0 focus on improve pet ability to make it more useful as support like party buff to compete BRD.

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Originally Posted by HexWeaver

Nerf BLM, problem solved.

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I lol'd they would never do that. Yoshi-P mains BLM anyway, so it's only going to get buffs.

You can play both, both can down all the content out at the moment without an issue.

Both push decent numbers, I will admit SMN you do need to be more aware of mechanics e.g making sure you DOTs arent going to fall off during earthshakers or knowing where to place pet.

This close to the expansion I would suggest getting the cross class skills such as raging strikes, virus, switfcast (BLM), quelling strikes E4AE.

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Originally Posted by HexWeaver

Nerf BLM, problem solved.

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umm no, this would lead to other issues. Besides blm had been nerfed before and then changed again, nerfing would be a very poor solution
Summoner itself needs to be reworked not nerfing classes again

You could always play both! :) They share gear for now for the most part..hehe only thing that would be different is maybe few pieces here and there, and the weapon :D

Although skill/spell speed is changing in the expansion.

I would also warn you about the mis information about SMNs on these forums.

I hate to say it but alot of people dont get that instant gratification from SMN and call it out for being a puny class.

As a SMN your damage comes in 3 parts
-DOTs which partly the bulk of damage which is why its important to learning timing buffs, communicate with the BRD for foes while applying etc. These also need to be ticking at all times and on as many things as possible, which is also the grace of the SMN you can do DPS all over the map, where as BLM is localized to its target.
-Pets - learn when to use ifrit and when to use garuda. Ifrit does more raw dmg but garuda extends buffed DOTs. If you can, learn when to switch them to max dps.
-Ruin/festers - apply the same approach as BLM - always be casting, but make sure you are casting the right things at the right time. E.g is pointless to be using ruin when your miasma counter is at 2 seconds, it is very unlikely you will be able to reapply miasma before the next global dot/hot tick which will be a loss of DPS, but you also need to make full use of your stacks and weave them in when you can, preferably when buffed, because if you have 2-3 stacks and aetherflow is ready to be used its a waste of DPS because you are losing stacks for the duration of the fight which means less festers/EDs.

sorry if it didnt make sense

Let the debate begin!

i dunno about most of you but can blms tank ramuh? or do this with mass blms?

http://youtu.be/C1peXpfnrz8

umm the ST and even wod runs i usually am the tank as blm, haha
It's not a big deal.

blm tanc op nerf PLX!!!

I raid as black mage now but I miss the mobility of summoner. I have Apocalypse for summoner and I'll probably get summoner to 60 first when the expansion comes, but I keep up my blm weapon as much as I can so I can run either.