Allagan Technological level, architecture?

So, I began wondering that for a time... We got some hints and bits during the Coil Storyline (I only did up to T7, so no spoilers if if can be halped plz? hahah), the Crystal Tower storyline, and the Main Scenario. So, would the Third Astral era be a Sci-Fi Scenario? I mean, Ragnarok is a Spaceship, Dalamud is akin to a Dyson Sphere that covers a primal instead of a star...

So, in a scale between Minority Report, passing through stuff like the humans from Battlestar Galactica, Minbari from Babylon 5, the Asgardians from Stargate, up to Star Trek, and then the Vorlons from Babylon 5 and the human civilization in the Foundation Series, where would you situate Allagan, exactly?

Also, depending on where this stands... is it possible to consider a thriving Allagan civilization outside of Hydaelyn, who was cut off from the planet in the wake of their calamity and just didn't bother with the home world anymore? Maybe a sort of "Prime Directive" on their part?

I don't think we can put the Allagan Empire in the same context as straight sf civilizations though, as FFXIV is actually fantasy (technofantasy specifically, but still fantasy nonetheless), and thus most of the apparent wondrous 'advanced technology' is really just handwaved away as 'magical machines' - Dalamud had imprisoned within a giant aetheric dragon for instance.

Also despite the bells and whistles, there is clear evidence there was a very strict divide in their society in even technology - I mean, there is still ruined roads in Thanalan that were named after the Allagan Empire (Royal Allagan Sunway and Royal Allagan Starway), which are just rudimentary paved roads in various states of decay. None of the 'glowing powerlines' and high technology seen in the Crystal Tower and the Binding Coils - just ordinary lumps of stone haphazardly arranged as a path.

Some advanced civilization they are - they couldn't even build a road properly. ;)

Yeah, that's exactly the point, I couldn't relate them with anything to mark what kind of technological or social level they have. I tried to imagine them closer to Esthar from FF8 or maybe Dezoris from the Phantasy Star universe, but that also didn't feel right.

You would relate them to the Warcraft universe's Draenei, then, maybe?

The interesting thing about an empire is how difficult it is to cover every square inch of it in all times in practice, and not just on a map. The sunway is pretty far from Mor Dhona (where the Crystal Tower is) and it and Dalamud seem to have been the biggest projects undertaken by the empire. It's possible the areas the sunway went through were poor areas of the empire that weren't especially a concern to Xande and company. It's also possible that the greatest innovations of Allag occurred relatively late in the empire's life which could be a significant part of why the Crystal Tower and Dalamud are the only consolidated sources of what we think of as Allagan technology. It's also possible that they had some nudging from our friends, the Paragons, given what we saw with Gaius and Ultima Weapon in the main scenario.

I doubt we'll ever get an answer, but those are my two biggest questions about the Allagans: how widespread WAS the Allagan high technology that we all think of with glowing lines and interlocking parts during their heyday, and for how long was that technology key to their reign. Obviously it had been around for a while since I doubt Dalamud or Ragnarok were weekend projects, but it'd be interesting to see how long they had been a part of the society of that era as a whole.

Draenei are actually probably pretty close except on a vastly larger scale. Still I don't think they quite fit.

Note that one thing to take into consideration is technology in FF14 is built on magic ie. magitek. Its not going to operate the same as real world technology. There are also cultural trends that might have influenced things.

A few points though I'd make.

Dalamud was built at the very end of the Allag empire and its actual purpose was to siphon energy from the sun and channel it down into the Crystal Tower. Bahamut was as much a component as a prisoner as the Allag lacked the technology to build something that could handle channeling and manipulating that much Aether. Using an enslaved primal solved that shortfall.

Its also worth mentioning those roads survived a world wide earthquake that practically erased almost every other example of Allagan architecture from the surface of the world.

Those roads may bear those names - but may not have been built by the Allagans themselves - they may have been built by civilisations that came later, in an effort of trying to recapure some of the Allagan glory by naming the roads thusly.

If you want a real life example, you only need to look back to the height of the Roman Empire.
If you were under the influence of the Roman Empire back in the 4-500's, you got awesome road ways and market systems etc - advanced for that time period.
Then the roman Empire collapsed - all the people that remained were unable to match and build what the Romans had been capable of - they were literally living in the remains of a past empire, watching things decay that they couldn't build themselves, or even know how to fix. It took another 1000 years before people were able to come back to a stage that the Romans had been at previously - and they were constantly trying in those years to rebuild, they just didnt know how.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Also despite the bells and whistles, there is clear evidence there was a very strict divide in their society in even technology - I mean, there is still ruined roads in Thanalan that were named after the Allagan Empire (Royal Allagan Sunway and Royal Allagan Starway), which are just rudimentary paved roads in various states of decay. None of the 'glowing powerlines' and high technology seen in the Crystal Tower and the Binding Coils - just ordinary lumps of stone haphazardly arranged as a path.

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but could this not be more of time and later people looting these systems of their baubles? I mean in a modern context the Pyramids were raiding by later egyptian of their smooth stones so that they could build houses or sell the ancients in the black market. And we do know that Tomestones are a treasured item among the Upper class of Eorzea.

I wouldn't consider the Allagans extraterrestrial. There are many examples of Allag's progressive development - from simple brickwork to Syrcus Tower to Dalamund and The Floating Continent. This progress is visible just by moving through Labyrinth of the Ancients and into Syrcus Tower. It's a pretty dramatic improvement in not only technological devices, but architecture and building materials. A civilization can accomplish quite a bit over the course of roughly 2000 years.

Now, it is possible that they were influenced by beings that were...not quite human in nature, but that's a whole other can of Clockwork Bugs.

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

I wouldn't consider the Allagans extraterrestrial.

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No no, I'm not saying they were extraplanetary. What I'm using the tinfoil hat for is to imagine if they, as they have the spaceship Ragnarok to prove they COULD, at least in theory, have established a colony outside of Hydaelyn (maybe in the closest planet on hydaelyn's star system) that was cut off from the mainland and remains so to this day. Maybe they are observing us. Maybe they think it's best to leave Hydaelin alone, but if push comes to shove they might day feel the need to come back and help us deal with the Ascian threat. Maybe...

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

No no, I'm not saying they were extraplanetary. What I'm using the tinfoil hat for is to imagine if they, as they have the spaceship Ragnarok to prove they COULD, at least in theory, have established a colony outside of Hydaelyn (maybe in the closest planet on hydaelyn's star system) that was cut off from the mainland and remains so to this day.

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Ah, I gotcha. I actually played with this idea way back before we knew the exact details on the use of Louisoux's summoned power at the Battle of Cartenau. I had suggested that some, if not most, Allag escaped the 4th Umbral Era via spaceflight. And who knows, all we're left with is that they had the technology and that their civilization on Hydaelyn was brought down by this calamity of earth. Afaik, it's still completely open for the Devs to play with down the line. I wouldn't be opposed to someday meeting a Lunarian.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Maybe they are observing us. Maybe they think it's best to leave Hydaelyn alone, but if push comes to shove they might day feel the need to come back and help us deal with the Ascian threat. Maybe...

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Maybe... Maybe their relationship with the Ascians was different than ours...

Well, in pragmatic terms... Allagans had spaceships, cloning & bio-engineering technology, nanotechnology, sapient AI, and technology that met all their energy needs (post-scarcity in at least one aspect). They're pretty much as high scifi and scifi gets. They're way above what Battlestar Galactica had. Star Trek perhaps a bit closer, but they only touched on transhumanism as an occasional episodic content. Redshirts, once dead, were pretty much... dead. So you can make a case for the Allagans being beyond even that. Perhaps somewhere between Star Trek and Culture, though certainly on a much smaller scale than the latter.

I can't think of any examples that are actually between those 2 off the top of my head, though.

Doga and Unei mentioned that the completion of the Syrcus Tower was not only the apex of their civilization, but also the start of a few hundred years of decline in which a bunch of the empire and its technology fell to ruin. I'm thinking there's a possibility that any Allagans that didn't end up on the CT energy grid (i.e. those in space) could have kept developing independently of their earthbound brethren, in which case there could be some Vorlon-tier offshoot out there wondering what the hell happened back on Hydaelin.

They were also just as, if not more, guilty than the Garleans in pirating tech from precursor civilizations, so I think the idea of Ascians having a hand in reviving Xande, at the very least, is not totally beyond consideration. We only got that story from the perspective of those on the outside, after all.

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Originally Posted by Aillith

Those roads may bear those names - but may not have been built by the Allagans themselves - they may have been built by civilisations that came later, in an effort of trying to recapure some of the Allagan glory by naming the roads thusly.

If you want a real life example, you only need to look back to the height of the Roman Empire.

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If you want a real life example you needn't look any further than El Camino Real in California.

Been a long time since it was named. Nothing of the original dirt path remains. But the name does.