Fisher: Stats mean absolutely nothing

In all seriousness if someone can explain why is it that when I had 353 gather and 286 perception I was able to catch 8 out of the 10 clam bites and get at least 2 HQ's out of that. To now going to 385 gather and 306 perception to where I'm catching 2 out of 10 clam bites and the rest are getting away or the lure is lost. What sense does that make? How is increasing your stats making RNG work all the more against you? There has to be some hidden tier cap that I hit that made me worse off than what I was at catching these things because it's been a week now and it's the same thing every freak'n time.

Another case was before big fishing even came out I went to help a friend fish up some HQ fish for their leves. I was in full HQ gear max melded. And yet I did worse in catching HQ fish, meanwhile my friend i was helping was in lvl35-40 NQ gear with no melds and they were fishing up HQ's without any problems. Seriously stats mean nothing when it comes to fishing. The only stat that matters is you have the gathering required to fish it up. As long as you have that nothing else matters because it's all up to RNG.

What's the point of increasing your stats if they don't ever seem to play a role due to RNG. =\

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Originally Posted by Malakai

Stats mean absolutely nothing beyond satisfying minimum requirements on green tier fish.

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Fixed that for you. Legendary fish are MEANT to be difficult to catch, so they all have a level of RNG.

...but due to the sheer volume of fish to catch, by the time you finish one of each 112 fish, probability is very high that you have spent the same cumulative time as the next person doing the same grind.

You gain more stats to catch more difficult fish. No more than 408 is presently needed for even the most difficult marks.

Well don't know how related this post is but.. I was Mor earlier today and noticed gloom weather and though.. perfect chance to get set for a chance at a ninja betta.. So run out to the tangle, change to fsh, pop a nq haddock dip and fish away.. its abot 3am..enough time to get a hq mooch fish I'm thinking.. 20 min goes by almost, my window as well.. not one hq bite.. not ONE!! my perception is 321 with food, albeit I don't have my lucis rod yet but I figured supra would do.. After that.. I put down my controller and logged out in disgust.. That experience almost put me off fishing for good now...

I am with both Malakai and Whatever on this. Stats seem to do nothing but make everything worse! It's infuriating! Stats should make RNG more favorable towards the player but it seems they are doing the exact opposite! As I fished over the weekend I continued to upgrade all my Fishing gear, whether it be making one piece HQ or fully melding one that was already HQ, I was catching HQ Sovereigns more frequently before, and now I also can't seem to land even a NQ Sovereign nor can I catch a HQ Goby in Cape Westwind to even BEGIN to start my mooch chain for a Titanic Sawfish, this is really ticking me off!

So with the 408 gather level is just needed. Does that mean further points are not necessary as they do no good? Hope not cause of all the extra time, melds, and gil spent to tweak out stats.. even more so if its all just for tiny gains...

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Originally Posted by Whatever

So with the 408 gather level is just needed. Does that mean further points are not necessary as they do no good? Hope not cause of all the extra time, melds, and gil spent to tweak out stats.. even more so if its all just for tiny gains...

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Correct...ish. Gathering over 408 will not alter your chances one bit... as of 2.51.

Any more will simply accelerate your ability to unlock access to even more difficult fish, which will be implemented in the future.

And the fact that SE didn't make a tackle box off hand makes u wonder what happened to fisher.
Seems legit.
-heavily rng based
-no off hand since release
-stats mean nothing except for hitting minimum requirements
-no skill in fishing ( just press 2 buttons then release or mooch )
-fishing for maps = wtf, i don't even
-can get the desired weather on the wrong time = wtf y game y
Countless times cuz rng.

Only thing that i think that makes it "actually" difficult is the
-time of day
-weather ( so easy now that we have a weather forecast npc everywhere )

Exactly that.. stats do not matter. The only stat that really does is meeting the base requirement to catch the fish. Even tho having a higher gather is supposed to "increase the success of gathering" it has zero effect on Fisher's RNG system, the same with perception. Unlike with BOT/MIN where you can see how stats actually improve your gathering/hq chances, even when you use food. It just is ignorant on SE's part that now I've increased my stats (30 on gather and 20 on perception) that I'm dong WORSE than what I was. Shouldn't having increased my stats have a more positive effect? Shouldn't I be able to catch them at a better success rate and have a bit higher even if by 1% or 2% rate of getting HQ? Now all that happens is the fish gets away and I'm losing lure's like they were normal bait. If there was some invisible RNG table chart that shows I moved up into another category or something that would be understanding but there's nothing like that. So it's more infuriating than anything.

And yea.. dunno why they took away spearfishing for. It was something alternative to do and was pretty fun on its own. And there is an insanely high demand for tackle box on FSH but SE won't allow it. They keep making up the excuse about having the tackle box means it will take longer for characters to load their save data when zoning and then data resources and inv space etc etc. Maybe we will get one in 3.0 who knows..can only hope.

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Originally Posted by Aviate

Stats seem to do nothing but make everything worse! It's infuriating!

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Don't fall for this illusion. The painful levels of RNG on many fish may make it SEEM like higher stats are having a negative effect at times, but the truth is that higher stats are having NO effect, positive or negative. It's a bit aggravating (having 409 Gathering SHOULD mean you have a higher catch rate on fish that have a 353 Gathering requirement than you would if you only had 353 Gathering), but it's just what we have to live with.

Ultimately:

Gathering stat is either pass (with RNG) or fail.

If you have insufficient gathering, you have 0% chance to catch the fish.
If you have sufficient gathering, you have n% chance to catch the fish. Just like everybody else.
If you have overkill gathering, you have n% chance to catch the fish. Just like everybody else.

Perception stat has no known cap, and more perception has been presumed to steadily assist in catching HQ fish with greater frequency.

Only one fish has a known perception REQUIREMENT to earn: Shonisaurus (320). The reason being, is that lesser green fish Mahar must be HQ in order to mooch and catch Shonisaurus, and HQ chance is 0% if perception is below 320.

GP for a Fisher is utterly worthless... for now.

SE has inferred that in 3.0 there will be fisher-based abilities which expend GP. (I will be curious whether said abilities will have cross-class usefulness, as well)

I've been wondering about perception. If perception has no cap, theoretically someone with very high perception should be able to go fish for very low level fish and HQ most of the catches, right?

Or perhaps what really happens with Perception is that there's diminishing returns on its effect, and every point adds less chance to HQ until after a certain number it makes practically no difference to the HQ probability.

I would guess it works the same way as miner and botanist with the high level nodes. The 2 star nodes you start at around 81% chance with minimum gathering. Add on about 60 gathering above minimum and you're up to 86-87%.

Fishing is clearly different numbers, but I'd bet it works in a very similar way. Taking a tiny sample size of ten fish isn't going to give you an accurate reading.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

I would guess it works the same way as miner and botanist with the high level nodes. The 2 star nodes you start at around 81% chance with minimum gathering. Add on about 60 gathering above minimum and you're up to 86-87%.

Fishing is clearly different numbers, but I'd bet it works in a very similar way. Taking a tiny sample size of ten fish isn't going to give you an accurate reading.

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Well, the difference is, the precentages you're looking at have to do with GATHERING, not PERCEPTION. (If you ARE talking about Perception, I'd love for you to tell me where these 81% HQ rate nodes can be found! :)) I find it really odd that folks think that Perception has no cap for fishers. While it's certainly difficult to figure out what that cap IS, it's pretty obvious that we're not catching all HQ fish at low levels. There has to be some kind of cap on what Perception can do for you.

I'd guess that, much like gathering nodes, fish in general have an HQ cap at 15%, and once you reach that, additional Perception does no good for those fish. And, much like higher level gathering nodes, it's quite likely that there isn't enough gear in the game to reach the 15% mark for the highest tier fish.

The only thing bot/min probably have in common is stated as above. That there is a 15% cap on HQ rate if you have max perception in that fishing hold for the fish. Hence why you can spend 3 hours fishing at a low lvl spot and rarely get any HQ's to mooch with if you are in high lvl fully melded gear and have the same chance compared to someone else in low lvl non-melded gear. Also it's probably correct what most people say like with Titanic Sawfish that the HQ rate drops even more on certain moochable fish you need when the window of another fish that needs it is up.
I wouldn't compare BOT/MIN to FSH tho mainly due to certain GP abilities. FSH doesn't even use GP let alone have abilities to help it's gathering out. There is no Toil of the Waters which let's FSH see all catchable fish and if they do/don't meet the gathering requirements. Or Rod Mastery which allows gathering increase of 5%-50% on fish. Or Bait Master which increases HQ by 10%-30%. Or Greater Haul which nets 2-3 fish in a single gathering attempt instead of just one. Or Steel Wire which after 4 100% gathers allows for the next fish to be 100% caught and 100% HQ. The thing with FSH is during that window period you are left at the mercy of RNG regardless of stats. Where as with BOT/MIN you are guaranteed one 100% gather in that window frame.

I def agree on alot of points. Its almost like fishing wasn't taken seriously or they put it on the backburner.. waiting to be finished. Wish I would have known about the stats thing sooner so I wouldn't have spent millions tweaking out those last melds. Hopefully SE will give FSH their due someday.

The way I believe perception works in fishing.

Each fish has a perception floor and cap. Below the floor and you can't catch a HQ. Above the cap, no mater how much you have, there is no increase in the HQ rate.

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Originally Posted by Whatever

So with the 408 gather level is just needed. Does that mean further points are not necessary as they do no good? Hope not cause of all the extra time, melds, and gil spent to tweak out stats.. even more so if its all just for tiny gains...

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basically 403 is all you need, since thats the minimum which is required for nepto which is the "hardest" of all fish in terms of gathering required

everything above 403 is useless and makes no difference

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

basically 403 is all you need

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That isn't the conclusion I've come to.

Here is my supposition to how it works.

There is a loot table of fish with various catch rates. When you cast your line it rolls to see which one you're going after. There is some counter that is kept so you don't get the same fish over and over. And so you can clear out the fish in that area. If you fish long enough in one spot, the fish leave the area.

There is a minimum requirement for Gathering, and a min requirement for HQ. If you meet the Gathering req you have a 70% chance to hook. Every 3 points of gathering gives you 1% higher chance to hook. If you meet the HQ rate you get 1% HQ and every 10 points of peception over that gives you 1 point of hq rate up until you hit 15%.

If you hook the fish, the fish will roll against it's slippery rating to see if it can get away.

Ultimately we will never look under the hood, and we will never know for sure.

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Originally Posted by Whatever

So with the 408 gather level is just needed. Does that mean further points are not necessary as they do no good? Hope not cause of all the extra time, melds, and gil spent to tweak out stats.. even more so if its all just for tiny gains...

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As of today nothing past that really counts. There is 2.55 and 3.0 though.

But which fish takes 408? I can't remember a post in Cat that said 404 insufficient, and I have rikaichan so I know the Japanese character.

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Originally Posted by Squand

There is a loot table of fish with various catch rates. When you cast your line it rolls to see which one you're going after. There is some counter that is kept so you don't get the same fish over and over. And so you can clear out the fish in that area. If you fish long enough in one spot, the fish leave the area.

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Go to a fishing hole. Catch ONE fish. Now, leave, go play Triple Triad for an hour, or something. Now, go back to that same spot, and try to fish again. You can't: you get the "fish are wary" message. This message is not triggered by quantity of fish caught. It is calculated by your position, and the duration of time since you started fishing (even if you only caught one fish). It has nothing to do with exhausting the supply of fish in the area.

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There is a minimum requirement for Gathering, and a min requirement for HQ. If you meet the Gathering req you have a 70% chance to hook. Every 3 points of gathering gives you 1% higher chance to hook.

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I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by this... A 70% chance to hook what? The rarer fish? What if you don't WANT the rarer fish, what if you're, say, trying to catch sharks for Alchemy. Does higher gathering skill, then, penalize your ability to catch marketable fish by increasing your chances of catching a higher level fish which may be of no use at all? As near as I can tell, the only factor that affects the odds of hooking a given fish are the type of bait used.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

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You are right about how fish are wary works.

I think lowering gathering to catch the fish you want has been debunked. Outside of knowing some fish bite only once a min. has been hit, and so if you can't get those fish, naturally you won't end up wasting casts on them.

In my scenario, it would loot table first. So say there are 3 fish you catch in the area. After the cast it rolls to see which one you've attempted to catch. Your stats would then be vs that fish. That loot table is separate and does not consult your stats, accept to see if you meet the min requirement to catch all the fish on the table.

Like unspoiled nodes vs regular nodes, it seems you can get 100% gathering rate on regular fish, but you can't always catch big fish. So it might cap out at 95%? Though maybe there is just a slippery rating.

This is just guesswork.

In-game Active help topic "Fishing":

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Your chances of successfully reeling in a fish after hooking it are directly affected by the fish type and your gathering rating.

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In-game Active help topic "Fish Size":

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The higher your perception rating, the better chance you have of landing larger fish. Fish over a certain length are deemed high-quality (HQ) and, depending on the variety, may be usable for mooching.

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Thing not said in-game:
Fish of a greater length require a higher gathering rating than their smaller brethren. Switch your food from high-perception to one that is instead high-gathering and your luck should turn around. I had to take my shoes off just to land my Olgoi after hooking and losing 7 in a row.

Been having the same type problem trying to catch my last big fish the Shonisaurus besides that fact that I haven't even seen the right weather come up in almost a week now but with 340 perception (HQ Haddock Dip) I can hardly get a HQ Cloud Cutter to mooch, last time I tried I got maybe 5 HQ and 27 NQ besides all the other trash fish you catch....

After getting the 3,000 HQ fish achievement, I had caught 15,736 fish, (someone do the math!!! D: ) so I'm pretty sure there's a cap on the HQ rate no matter how high perception one has.