About these "calamities" and "Astral/Umbral" eras...

You know, ever since Patch 2.2 (with the introduction of Yugiri and the Domans), I started wondering...these people that come from continents far away from Aldenard never actually experienced what the Eorzeans call the "Astral"/"Umbral" eras, have they?

I mean sure, aside from Meracydia being invaded by the Allagans millennia ago, there is no (known) record of other continents being involved, or even being aware about events directly related to Eorzea, right?
Not even the most recent calamity that led into the 7th Umbral era (Bahamut being released and devastating most of the land).

In fact, are we even sure that their calendars are the same as the ones that Eorzeans use?
With the whole "Astral"/"Umbral" nomenclatures and dates?

I get the distinct feeling that, while Eorzea is indeed a very important location (considering that it's at the very center of Aetheric activities), not that many people outside it know or are aware of its history...then again, maybe the Domans were kind of isolated.

Thoughts?

The "Age of Endless Frost" (5th Umbral Calamity) was said to have frozen seas, suggesting it affects more than Eorzea, and may have gripped Hydaelyn in Snowball Earth.

The astral/unbral eras do affect the rest of the world, it's just that each nation/continent prior to Garlemald invading them and "unifying" them just don't know/care about Eorzea.

They may have vague stories about Eorzea just like Eorzeans have vague stories about foreign continents and their nations. They probably have their own mythos regarding Astral/Umbral Eras.

The stuff on the Allag suggests their empire spread beyond Eorzea. Since their calamity destroyed their empire completely, it is safe to say that the calamity reached beyond Eorzea. It is mentioned early in the Zodiac quest that what makes Eorzea special is the very high levels of Aether Eorzea has.

They do affect the entire world, but probably not quite to the extent that they affect Eorzea.

This is one of the reasons why the invasion of Eorzea by the Garlean Empire actually makes sense, and why people actually felt bad for defeating them. They may have been massive jerks, but the people of Eorzea are a bunch of children playing with matches on top of a pile of gasoline, and every time they set the place ablaze, the fire spreads to their neighbors house.

They effect the other Continents and other regions of Hydaelyn, we just don't know to what effect. We don't know if the Earthquakes of the Fourth Umbral era that hit the Crystal Tower also could be felt elsewhere or if the flooding of the Sixth Umbral era hit other Continents. We only know that the Fifth Umbral era allowed Miqo'te to follow their prey across the ice and into Eorzea.

As for calendars we also don't know. Eorzea's days/weeks/months are based on Lewphon's 'The Five Ages,' we would pretty much need Yugiri to go "yes we follow these moon months also" for any kind of confirmation.

If the Zodiak Braves were truly those who fought against Calamity, we can extrapolate just by the fact that the weapons have histories in Ilsabard, Othard, and Thavnair as evidence that the effects of an Umbral Era stretch far and wide, especially given that the Near East has their own version of the legend of the Archons.

The seven umbral era began with the chaos that Bahamut strated, but he just made this destruction on Eorzea, not any orther place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frederick22

The seven umbral era began with the chaos that Bahamut strated, but he just made this destruction on Eorzea, not any orther place.

---

I find the entire declaration of 7th Umbral era suspect. What exactly was so different in those 5 years? Why did stopping a single Garlemald invasion usher in a new ERA?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Torquil

I find the entire declaration of 7th Umbral era suspect. What exactly was so different in those 5 years? Why did stopping a single Garlemald invasion usher in a new ERA?

---

The 7th Umbral era, so far, has only started climate change: Coerthas is in a perpetual winter, dry bone is constantly raining, camp tranquil was formally a great lake, but reduced to a swamp. Most importantly, the seal has been broken and now everyone one can summon primals. Even Yugiri stated as much that there are similar creatures like primals in/around Doma.

Each Umbral Eras represents an element and all elements have already be exhausted. the 7th umbral era could be non-elemental

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Torquil

I find the entire declaration of 7th Umbral era suspect. What exactly was so different in those 5 years? Why did stopping a single Garlemald invasion usher in a new ERA?

---

Do you mean 7th Astral? Declaring the 7th Umbral is easy to understand - moon falls, empire invades, big primal destroys massive chunks of the realm and sends the aetherial balance in a downward spiral, the Ascians return... defeating the Invasion and ushering in the 7th Astral is more suspicious than that, but Fernehalwes did give some insight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anwyll (Anonymoose) & Fusionx

So, officially, it’s the Seventh Astral Era… but there’s still… a lot of stuff going on. Who are the Grand Company Leaders that they can just be like, “Okay, it’s over, we’re done!”

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koji Fox (Fernehalwes

This is a very political thing. Basically, five years ago, you had half of your world destroyed because Louisoix stepped in and tried to stop things and only half stopped things. A lot of people did pass away during the Calamity and their livelihood as been destroyed. They have to rebuild and go into the shroud to move felled trees and rebuild their farms and it got a lot of people down. If you look at some of the NPC dialogue, one thing we did in 2.0 was, we thought, you know if my life had been destroyed I’d be all depressed; I’m just trying to rebuild things and get back on my feet. So we’ve tried to put that kind of text into these regular NPCs. You have all these people in these nations that are very down.

They had this big war with the Garleans, they won all these great battles, it was the first time in thousands of years the Grand Companies were formed and then, “Hey we ma-… DIDN’T make i,t” so basically the GC leaders were waiting for something good to happen and they grasped onto that and said “OK! Umbral era is over, mission accomplished, we’re done!” to hopefully bring peoples spirits up. It’s a morale thing, you can’t have your people depressed all the time, they won’t be productive thinking, “Why should I farm? Another Bahamut is gonna just destroy my fields.”

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anwyll (Anonymoose) & Fusionx

So we have that quest line, Chronicles of a New Era.. so we ARE in a new era then?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koji Fox (Fernehalwes

Yep. When they announce it, that’s it. But it’s weird because if a new player picks up the game and starts today they’re still in the Umbral Era, it’s in that time bubble.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by myahele

Each Umbral Eras represents an element and all elements have already be exhausted. the 7th umbral era could be non-elemental

---

Correct - some didn't even believe that the Seventh could exist because the elements were exhausted. Either the last two are the polarities themselves (light and darkness), such as with the cycle of days, or, as I like to put it, the Seventh cycle is that of oblivion or the chance to stop it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Torquil

I find the entire declaration of 7th Umbral era suspect. What exactly was so different in those 5 years? Why did stopping a single Garlemald invasion usher in a new ERA?

---

I think there's actually a more-or-less official statement to the effect if "it's a PR stunt by the three leaders." My current belief is that the Umbral Era won't really end until the current Main Scenario (going into 3.0 and beyond) ends, since defeating Ultima Weapon had pretty much nothing to do with Eorzea's aetherial balance.

(Moose is speaking in the post above. Bracing for impact.)

Astral and Umbral Eras may just be an Eorzean cultural construct to try and impose some meaning and understanding on a string of human-caused (spoken-caused?) calamities and the recovery periods between them, rather like we attach huge significance to the turning-point between centuries and millenniums even though they're entirely human creations. The other continents may also be affected by the disasters but maybe don't mythologise them as part of an inescapable cycle the way Eorzea does.

Its worth noting that the damage done by Bahamut was heavily mitigated by the events that are shown in turn 12 of the Final Coil. The damage could have been far more widespread if not countered.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by myahele

The 7th Umbral era, so far, has only started climate change: Coerthas is in a perpetual winter, dry bone is constantly raining, camp tranquil was formally a great lake, but reduced to a swamp. Most importantly, the seal has been broken and now everyone one can summon primals.

---

Actually, Primals were released during the Battle of Silvertear Skies in 6AE 1562, ten years before the calamity, as seen in the opening movie, here!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gwaeron

Actually, Primals were released during the Battle of Silvertear Skies in 6AE 1562, ten years before the calamity, as seen in the opening movie, here!

---

Now, it's unclear but believed that there was a Primal present in Eorzea some time between when the Garlean Empire conquered Ala Mhigo in 1557 and the Battle of Silvertear Skies in 1562. This was the Primal to halt their advance into Eorzea and the assumed reason for their attack on Silvertear. Garlean forces also encountered Primals on Othard, sometime between 1552 and 1557.

At any rate, it was in the 6th Astral Era that Beast Tribes were taught summoning rituals by the Paragons and probably shouldn't be linked to events of the 7th Umbral.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by treuhavik

Now, it's unclear but believed that there was a Primal present in Eorzea some time between when the Garlean Empire conquered Ala Mhigo in 1557 and the Battle of Silvertear Skies in 1562.

---

Yep, and there have been summonings much, much earlier than that as well (Bahamut, Odin). However the primals were released as seen in that cutscene... whatever that actually means.

This made me think of a question. In the cutscene we can see that the primals released clearly already had form. We see Ifrit and Titan very clearly. This is before the beastmen even starts trying to summon them. Do they already have form because there is already a belief in them? Or is there a belief in them because they already existed?

Recent events would have one believe that one could summon anything in the form of a primal, given enough crystals and believers... Then said anything would already have had form at least 15 years ago? What if a new religion appears?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gwaeron

Do they already have form because there is already a belief in them? Or is there a belief in them because they already existed?

---

I'm leaning toward the belief that the column of aether from Silvertear was just that, and only that. The depiction of the Primals within this pillar is merely metaphorical, signifying that from that point onward the aetherial balance was such that Primals, previously existing or not, could be summoned far more easily than before. It's also foreshadowing the events to come(beast tribe summoning). This doesn't fully answer your question though. I think it plausible that certain Primals already had an established "form", but in order to know this for sure we first need answers to certain other questions...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gwaeron

Recent events would have one believe that one could summon anything in the form of a primal, given enough crystals and believers...

---

I think it's more important to look at it as aether required for a primal to manifest, rather than crystals specifically, whether that aether has an element attached to it or not. Though, elementally aspected aether just might have an influence on the final product...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gwaeron

What if a new religion appears?

---

Well, we've seen first-hand that Primals can be created where there wasn't one before, therefore not all existed before the "seal" on Silvertear was broken.

I'm starting to think that maybe the "Lambs of Dalamund" will try to do the same some day

Except Ferne actually confirmed the column of light at the Battle of Silvertear Skies (i.e. in 1.0's original opening FMV), really was the Primals being released from confinement, and that until that time they had been sealed within the lake. This confirmation is in the 1.0 forum archive so it will take me a bit of time to dig up. But the important this is, the Primals were sealed until that point (which coincided with the first appearance of the Ascians to the beast tribes masquerading as the 'Paragons' and teaching each in turn to summon, Ifrit being the first.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Except Ferne actually confirmed the column of light at the Battle of Silvertear Skies (i.e. in 1.0's original opening FMV), really was the Primals being released from confinement, and that until that time they had been sealed within the lake.

---

Midgardsormr, YOU HAD ONE JOB.

Primals being sealed within the lake just creates more question. Who sealed them, or what sealed them or how did they even get sealed. When exactly did they get sealed.
This actually makes me wonder if Primal Bahamut (Non-Primal Bahamuts death date pretty much) was born during the war between meracydia and the allagans and Primal-Bahamut couldn't get sealed due to Dalamud.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Ferne actually confirmed the column of light at the Battle of Silvertear Skies (i.e. in 1.0's original opening FMV), really was the Primals being released from confinement, and that until that time they had been sealed within the lake.

---

Did he? I might be blanking on something big, but the only official mention of the seal on Silvertear Lake that I can recall at the moment was one that specifically avoided confirming that the primals were sealed there, which is the only reason I remember ever questioning the primalsplosion as a mystery to begin with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

Though the great dragon is able to destroy the Garlean flagship, he perishes in the process, and the seal which he protected (guarding the concentration of aether beneath Silvertear Lake) is broken, allowing the beast tribes access to this energy, which they use to freely summon their primals (as taught to them by the mysterious paragons). The Garleans, having lost their flagship and sensing the presence of something more powerful than their remaining forces can handle, retreat back to Ala Mhigo. Meanwhile, with the fall of the Keeper of the Lake, the aetherial balance in the area gets thrown out of whack, transforming the once lush area into a crystalline wasteland—Silvertear Falls now dried up.

---

Skimmed the rest of the old post just for fun, and this now stands out to me where it didn't before...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

Do the dragons of Dravania worship a primal? And if so, who? Is it Nidhogg? Midgardsormr? Someone else?
Yoshi-p dropped a few bombs last week revealing that both Midgardsormr and Nidhogg were not primals, but dragon ‘kings.’ However, he also revealed that the dragons are a beast tribe...and that beast tribes have their own gods (primals)... So...

---

I used to think this was a hint about Bahamut, but we now know Bahamut to be the first of the Meracydian brood, deified in desperation to save them from Allag advance. But this is answering questions about Dravanians. Did the Dravanians do their own bit of worship and summons? Could this be related to the mystery primal that halted the Garlean advance!? Probably not, but ohoho baseless pot-stirring!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

but ohoho baseless pot-stirring!

---

You've done it again... Lol.

Due to Odin's unique circumstance I always thought that he was this mysterious Primal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by myahele

Due to Odin's unique circumstance I always thought that he was this mysterious Primal.

---

Me, too! I favored the Odin theory over the Ramuh theory just because I trusted the Sylphs when they said "These ones will never summon a primal. Okay, maybe just that one time. And that second time recently, but that wasn't technically these ones, this time." And that was in spite of the fact that all clues point to Odin being released as a direct result of the Calamity, long after the mysterious primal's appearance.

I actually thought it might have fallen through the cracks entirely and might be a fun question to just ask ... but much to our surprise, Banri Oda-san has barred discussion of the topic because it was planned from the beginning and hasn't been revealed yet. The only hint I can think of is that Naoki Yoshida-san was very proud of Ravana being the first summon created specifically for FFXIV - so whichever entity it was, it was a traditional summon. That should narrow it down! (...Oh.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Did he? I might be blanking on something big, but the only official mention of the seal on Silvertear Lake that I can recall at the moment was one that specifically avoided confirming that the primals were sealed there, which is the only reason I remember ever questioning the primalsplosion as a mystery to begin with.

---

I think you might be right Moose, as I went searching for the quote in question but I could not find it, only discovering the above quote from Ferne in the old 'CG Midlander' thread, which wasn't quite the same. But I'm sure I saw another quote by Ferne somewhere else (quoted in another more recent thread?) which 'confirmed' the Primals really were sealed within Silvertear Lake and that the destruction of the Agrius created such a massive aether explosion it caused the seal to rupture and the Primals escaped. Sadly though, I can't remember for the life of me exactly where it was.

Naturally, this quote would be the 'smoking gun' in regards to the issue of the 'where the Primals came from', but the more I think of it, the more it looks like me just misreading the above quote and taking the 'energy' released and turning that into 'Primal essence' - maybe someone is Echo-tripping in my memories and changing things?! Arrghh! :p

Anyway, thanks for the clarification as usual Moose. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

the more I think of it, the more it looks like me just misreading the above quote and taking the 'energy' released and turning that into 'Primal essence' - maybe someone is Echo-tripping in my memories and changing things?! Arrghh! :p

---

In your defense, there were a ton of probable theories on the subject spouted in the past year or so. My own theory on this has shifted dramitically, this just happens to be where it sits for the time being.

I wonder if it was possible to create a new primal despite there being a seal? That the seal only worked on pre-existing primals, although one defeated these new primals end up getting seal anyways due to returning to the lifestream.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by myahele

I wonder if it was possible to create a new primal despite there being a seal? That the seal only worked on pre-existing primals, although one defeated these new primals end up getting seal anyways due to returning to the lifestream.

---

Well we know that Othard had summoned Primals during their war with the Garleans and this was well before the seal was broke in Silvertear / Paragons teaching the Beast tribes. Really there's so much confusion with Primals and their entire nature, the definition is just way too broad at this point .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I actually thought it might have fallen through the cracks entirely and might be a fun question to just ask ... but much to our surprise, Banri Oda-san has barred discussion of the topic because it was planned from the beginning and hasn't been revealed yet. The only hint I can think of is that Naoki Yoshida-san was very proud of Ravana being the first summon created specifically for FFXIV - so whichever entity it was, it was a traditional summon. That should narrow it down! (...Oh.)

---

The problem is, the Gnath appear to live in Dravania (opposite end from Ala Mhigo), so I doubt they would've summoned Ravana at that point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

Well we know that Othard had summoned Primals during their war with the Garleans and this was well before the seal was broke in Silvertear / Paragons teaching the Beast tribes. Really there's so much confusion with Primals and their entire nature, the definition is just way too broad at this point .

---

When it was said that there were primals on Othard? I dont remember nothing about that on main scenario. Infact what I do remember is that Yugiry said that the primals where something unknow on Doma, Levhiatan was the first primal she has ever see. I think you got it wrong, there arent primals on Othard. Just by adding Doma is a nation of the continent of Othard.

The main FFXIV site states it here:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FFXIV ARR Lodestone

The eastern nations were the first to feel the newborn empire's mighty fist. It was during this campaign that the emperor witnessed firsthand the destruction wrought by the primals—an experience that led to an imperial mandate for their annihilation.

---

Yugiri also confirmed that although the Eorzean term 'Primal' was unknown to her, once the Scions actually explained what a Primal was did she understand and acknowledge that Primals do in fact exist on Othard (in most likelihood, as Doma was a client state of Garlemald she probably knew the Primals under the Garlean derogatory term of 'eikon' instead): (spoilered for new players just joining us):

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FFXIV ARR main scenario quest 'Writhing in the Dark'

Yugiri: "I take it something ill is afoot?"
Y'shtola: "Aye. A primal is about to be loosed upon Eorzea."
Yugiri: "A.. primal?"
Y'shtola: "A godlike being whose very existence is a bane upon the land. We Scions of the Seventh Dawn are sworn to put an end to their kind."

---

and

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FFXIV ARR main scenario quest 'Into the Heart of the Whorl'

Yugiri: "Beings held as gods also exist in what you call the Far East."
Yugiri: "Legends tell us that they walked among us in days of yore, but I confess that I never truly believed them. That I should live to behold one is... humbling and horrifying in equal measure."
Yugiri: "Now that I have come face-to-face with a Primal, I do begin to understand why the Garleans fear them so."

---

Wow I have complete not see that part. Also I thought the Garleans's first encounter with a primal was on Eorzea. My apologies.