I have both Summoner and Ninja at level 50 but now its time for me to focus more on just one class to get Zeta and i130 gear. Im having a hard time figuring out which class I should main because I like playing both classes. Which class would be better overall for end game play?
Summoner or Ninja?
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03-20-2015, 07:58 AMBklyn718Summoner or Ninja?
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03-20-2015, 08:00 AMDivine_Intervention
Both are awesome. Play which you prefer.
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03-20-2015, 09:30 AMAkiza
Ninja is better for end game because it is easier to put out good damage then a Summoner
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03-20-2015, 05:25 PMCraiger
Well, at the moment SMN is the worst DPS job for endgame raiding... Because they run out of MP too quickly.
That doesn't really matter at the moment though, because Heavensward is coming soon anyways, and all jobs will be getting some more abilities and traits, and maybe other changes... I'm sure SE are going to fix SMN's issues at that point.
Heavensward could actually change your opinion on what job you want to play too. Who knows what will change.
Because of this, just pick the job you like the most, cause it doesn't really matter at the moment. -
03-20-2015, 06:18 PMZenakuThat wont matter for 3.0 you have to think about what going to happen later on and not thinking of what happening now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiza
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03-20-2015, 10:14 PMmelflomilThey dont run out of MP anymore, it is their damage outputQuote:
Originally Posted by Craiger
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03-20-2015, 10:23 PMVallhallix
Play what you like most. My personal opinion? Nin, its a far funner class and next to blm probably has the best looking skills. It's fast too, very enjoyable. I love it.
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03-20-2015, 11:40 PMBunsenThis seems to be just an opinion. I would be interested to see facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by melflomil
SMN MP isn't an issue any more with the latest update to Ruin/II MP cost. SMN has a more complex rotation than NIN. In my honest opinion, it is more difficult to find a SMN that has maximized their optimal rotation than other NINs respectively. -
03-21-2015, 12:16 AMVallhallix
Basically the true difference; SMN's have to do more to put out similar damage to other classes. Which can sometimes consume much of their mp. Good for substained damage, but terrible at bursting down stuff which is a core mechanic in most fights it's here when SMN shines the least out of all classes. When you're in Cerberus belly in WoD or the Nails on Ifrit ex for example BLM's, DRG's, NIN's etc burst those issues away pretty fast before a SMN can even get all dots up and start doing significant damage. I pretty much destroy a nail in seconds on my BLM. Everytime a SMN is in the party I have to run over to them and help lol.
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03-21-2015, 12:38 AMBunsen
Agree.. but in these certain scenarios SMNs should know that it may be best to just Ruin + Energy Drain.
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03-21-2015, 12:45 AMOrriasDepends what you prefer; magic vs melee, DoT application + casting vs GC hits & weaving in oGCD, an evenish-paced casting rhythm vs hectic tempo melee gameplay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bklyn718
It also depends on what you plan on doing with said Jobs, and whether or not it's realistically feasible to achieve that, both with your skill level and with w/e type of static you play with.
Bear in mind though that if you decide on going with SMN, in 3.0 it's getting overhauled, with the potentiality of the current iteration of the SMN's rotation being liable to change. So that's something to consider too. -
03-21-2015, 12:53 AMCodeCass
I played SMN for almost a full year, and in the last few months I've don't nothing but play NIN. Both are very fun classes, but lately, I'm having much MORE with NIN. I think a lot of it boils down to what you enjoy more.
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03-21-2015, 03:57 PMWarlyx
the question is what are u gonna do to attain 130 and what after that? , farm dungeons / CT and maybe pug some Coil? look for a static?
getting a spot as nin in a static or pug is going to be harder than SMN , and with only some months left if u really want to see the content , go for SMN.
but if u enjoy nin more , go for nin ! -
03-22-2015, 01:12 AMAkizaThere are only a few Summoners left because almost their entire population switched to Ninja so there are more Ninjas vying for spots in Final Coils then Summoners because there are so few of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlyx
If you want to get in a static play Ninja if you want to play solo and be part of a dying breed play Summoner. -
03-22-2015, 05:22 AMHexWeaver
I've levelled both SMN and NIN to 50 and I prefer SMN, I'm biased though as SMN was my first job, but I also find the Mudra lag to be annoying and has screwed up my rotation more than once.. also, ignore Akiza, she's been slamming SMN for months and will take any opportunity to tell you why x, y or z is better than it. As others have pointed out though the expansion is coming out soon and it'll turn most classes and any tiers people have created on their heads, so just go with what you find the most fun. :)
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03-27-2015, 07:08 AMShaolinMikeThis is the EXACT same issue to kept me from permanently going to NIN from SMN.Quote:
Originally Posted by HexWeaver
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03-27-2015, 11:17 AMValoiz
Jobs like NIN - DRG and BLM have simpler and easier rotations, are less dificult to play with.
Also SMN have great AoE but lack or burst (BLM are superior in AoE tho). NIN have lame AoE but great burst.
SMN its a really challeging class, ur always busy: doing DoTs, moving/buffing ur pet/ Calculating ur mana/ aether flows, resurrecting dead melees...
As SMN u will be able to do amazing stuff if u know how to play with, like killing dungeons bosses by urself when everything looks lost (even primals), farming all fates/maps without help, but if ur not into such things just do NIN. I dont to static, dont have time/ dont like that, but so far i can do everthing DF can offer with no trouble at all.
I played SMN on several MMO (L2 - Terra- WoW- Aion) and they are usually not a top DPS but a very selfsuficient char, some ppl just cant get that. -
03-27-2015, 11:34 AMRiepah
I'd say it depends a little on how much faith you have in SE to show SMNs some love in Heavensward. As it stands currently, I'd recommend NIN over SMN, but who knows what the expansion will bring.
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03-27-2015, 11:42 AMKuroyasha
3 months is 3.0. a few days final coil unlocks. Gear em both
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03-29-2015, 11:15 AMwondergroove
As other have said so far, all it really boils down to is this: do whatever you enjoy playing the most. If you put enough effort in, you can be truly good at either of them. Just depends on your personal preference and playing style.
As an aside, since I've noticed a lot of discouragement for SMN's based mostly on their damage output in this thread, I would like to mention that as a SMN main I have been consistently putting out the highest DPS in my Coil static during our last few runs. And with little to no issue with MP so far. If you're willing to put the effort in and you really enjoy the job, you'll be able to take it far regardless of what it is. -
03-29-2015, 01:36 PMAkizaTerra doesn't have a Summoner, WoW Summoner is the Shaman which is as powerful as the Mage, Aion the Summoner was based around crowd control and AoE. Melee Dps were usually top DPS because the stance they had the highest single target DPS. The Summoner in this game is a Summoner in name only it really is a Necromancer/Puppetmaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valoiz
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03-31-2015, 01:22 AMDemonHunterHave you played any of these games? Tera doesn't have a summoner you're right, WoW has both Warlocks and Shadow priests who are MUCH more like the summoner in FFXIV than Shamans. The Aion Spiritmaster was hardly based on AoE since 90% of all abilities were single target.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiza
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03-31-2015, 07:31 AMAkizaThe Warlock plays more like a Necromancer and Puppetmaster not a traditional Final Fantasy Summoner. I wouldn't call what we have now a Summoner it is merely an Arcanist with Fester. The WoW Elementalist Shaman is the closest to the image of a Final Fantasy Summoner. All SE has to do with Shaman is tweak it so its like Elementalist/Summoner from FFTAQuote:
Originally Posted by DemonHunter
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03-31-2015, 09:54 AMValoizTera have Mystic class: "Summoned thralls and frontal AoE makes the mystic a solo powerhouse" (DPS - suport)Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiza
WoW: Have Warlock Demonology- Shaman were never as powerfull DPS as a mage/warlock cuz, as druid, are versatile class, able to heal himself, battle res and buff ppl ( i was elemental shaman) .
Aion: close to 70% of the DMG comes from the pet and u just do CC and actually have little AoE. (never as powerfull as other DPS but close to impsoible to kill in pvp xD, CC make then valuable)
L2 Have 4 SMN jobs, 3 pure SMN (90% of the dmg comes from ur pet) and Necromancer (60 char/ 40% pet) ( low DPS compare to nukers but really OP in 1 vs 1 pvp) -
03-31-2015, 09:59 AMHouston009lol "easier".Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiza
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03-31-2015, 11:42 AMOmegaNovaiosThe Summoner in this game is like DRG in FFXI except the pet does not die easily. You have very little to no interaction with your pet during any given battle. Hell at least in FFXI when DRG used a weapon skill or spell the pet combo-ed with that action based on what was used with several breath attacks, way more rewarding and cool. SMN pet does very little damage. It's nearly non-existent as the SMN as was a viable DPS w/o pet pre-BLM buff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiza
The SMN class has very little to do with pet mastery, save the Lore that is behind it, but guess what who the hell cares about the lore of a boring class? I sure don't. Gameplay is WAY more important than lore. We have white knights all day for Egi appearance because of lore. We have white knights all day for DOTs because of lore. What is to stop SE from redesigning the lore (they already redesigned the entire game) if people REALLY do care so much?
Many people say the SMN is like WoW Warlock (Affliction) because it a couple of similar features, many say it's nothing like WoW Warlock (Affliction) because of a couple of differences; I say SMN is both, what SMN has Warlock has and more. In fact it's more boring than the class it's balanced off of because the difference in SMN and Warlock is that SMN DOES NOT have those features (which IMO still wouldn't be what I hoped to see in SMN).
And SE claims FFXIV DRG absolutely cannot have a pet nor will a 2nd job branch off of LNC to include a pet because SE says the player will be upset if the player damage is lowered to make up for the damage of the pet. Look at SMN that's exactly what it is; nothing more, nothing less. Should SMN's be upset their damage is lowered because there is a pet? Nay, I say SMN should be upset that their pet damage is lowered because of the player.
SMN is a super cool concept. In FFXI I never got around to leveling multiple classes because of how slow it was. I always envied SMN in FFXI, it looked so cool and versatile (that is coming from an avid RDM who did it all on 1 job with different gear sets/sub jobs: Heal, Support, Tank, Nuke, Solo, etc.)
I don't know if it is because SE rushed SMN and/or SCH, because it's too complicated to balance 2 jobs off 1 class, or because SE doesn't understand the importance of SMN to not only the brand of Final Fantasy but as a staple of the MOST PROMINENT PET CLASS/JOB of not only MMOs but EVERY RPG to date EVER! -
03-31-2015, 03:27 PMNasirILL
I say ninja. I have a bard at 50, slightly geared, drg at 31 but so far im really enjoying rogue class and cant wait for Ninja.
Gonna try pug/mnk next attack animations look dope. -
03-31-2015, 05:35 PMVallhallixIt's really not that challenging. Next to BLM its the easiest class to learn in the game IMO. As a SMN you don't need to worry about any positionals or combos whatsoever. The class is so easy to learn I didn't even bother to look at any rotations for SMN back when I first started playing it (and this coming from someone who has not played the previous FF). I picked up on it myself and lo and behold I was doing it correctly. Same with BLM. None of the dps classes are really complex (exception of MNK which I never played), and anyone who isn't a casual gamer should pick up on them very swiftly. SMN is not anymore difficult than BLM. One spams fire and keeps thunder procs up, the other reapplies DoTs and ruin spam. Plus SMN is even easier when it comes to moving. Though people exaggerate BLM's inability to dodge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valoiz
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03-31-2015, 08:33 PMAkiza
Movement doesn't affect Black Mage more than Summoner because they can hold procs which do more damage than Fester.
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03-31-2015, 10:54 PMVallhallix
Melee is most definately the more challenging of the dps classes. They're more vunerable to taking hits, they have less self healing too. (In WoD as my BLM the rest of my alliance died, I wouldn't have survived without physick) I love NIN and got it to 50 but I don't think I could use it "seriously". Melee disorients me too much. So much crap in your face all the time. So I give props to all the good melee dpsers. Range also has the luxury of kinda being able to go into a dungeon blind and succeeding well. I'd hate to go in one as my NIN blind and then get smacked by a boss super move lol
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04-01-2015, 09:39 AMRyu_Hayabusaa
black mage or monk instead.
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04-01-2015, 06:29 PMCraiger
Didn't wanna make a new thread to ask this, but might be a little off topic...
What DPS do you think SMN should have to be balanced?
Early on in ARR, people thought SMN was OP, because they had pretty high DPS and still had tons of utility etc etc... but do they really have that much utility or other things?
SMN doesn't have particularly good AoE when there's more than 4 enemies, and BLM wins on that hands down anyways.
BLM have good utility too, and unless there's some big change to SMN's res, I don't think it's worth not just letting the healers do it... Very few people run with a SMN in their static, and I haven't really heard people mentioning that they could have used another player who can res... BLM has Apocas(whatever) too, which can actually be helpful.
The biggest weakness about SMN right now though IMO, is that they have Zero burst damage, which is kinda important many times, and BLM is just miles ahead on this.
I don't think they should just make SMN like BLM though, but I think their DPS should be higher than BLM, not as high as the melee ofc, but still high enough to make up for that low burst damage.
I haven't even mentioned that BLM has no problem with MP, which maybe SMN doesn't really have anymore(not sure), but it's still a big bonus for BLM, especially if you die and BLM gets up to full in a couple of secs, while SMN have to summon pet and need MP song.