Dark Knight... SEs way of telling speed runners..

To Sloooow dowwwn

They made it Mp based. If you pull to fast or too many, your gonna run out and everyone will die..

Drk was a glass Cannon in XI that was always the first guy dead. Drg has taken his place. So to make up for it, he's now the glass Cannon that will get EVERYONE killed. =D

(none the less I'm sure he'll still be fun)

You dont know how much mp it will have and if all the thread skills will be mp base... If is like pld that can just flash until mp run out and keep all the hate then will be no problem to speed run with drk.

As a tank who hates big pulls I'm looking forward to this.

Also as a veteran Dark Knight, I'll be sure to find the frequent dirt naps nostalgic.

Not quite as nostalgic as if I missed every other attack, but I think I'll be able to handle it.

More assumptions based on very little.

I doubt they gimp DRK to make them deemed inferior to other tanks.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

You dont know how much mp it will have and if all the thread skills will be mp base... If is like pld that can just flash until mp run out and keep all the hate then will be no problem to speed run with drk.

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I suppose it's possible, but the way they make it. Sound, and look, makes Me think it will be heavily mp based.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

More assumptions based on very little.

I doubt they gimp DRK to make them deemed inferior to other tanks.

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Never said it would be inferior. Just would have to have proper mana control. Pull too much and you dug your own grave(and your partys) pull normally and could have the potential to be the highest damaging tank in the game.

MP based sure, but making them time-locked is unlikely since it would just make them strictly inferior to other tanks in dungeons. More likely is that they'll have skills that replenish their MP, perhaps at the cost of some of this Darkness resource they're using to do things.

Think of it like a WAR being able to exchange some of their stacks for TP and I think you'd be getting closer.

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

I suppose it's possible, but the way they make it. Sound, and look, makes Me think it will be heavily mp based.

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I think it will be heavely mp base for a tank too but not to the point that will make it useless if dont have mp.

we dont know if DRK will have a way to recover MP (think pld chain)

and Drk died a lot in FFXI for 2 reasons agro + paper def , spike dmg is was all drk had going for it

That's a pretty big assumption since you know literally nothing about how it utilizes that MP or if it has skills to quickly regenerate MP.

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

So to make up for it, he's now the glass Cannon that will get EVERYONE killed.

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You DO know it's a tank right? Nothing glass about it.

OP is also assuming that higher number of mobs = more use of MP. While that may be somewhat true, once you're overgeared it might not matter, a la overgearing now. Like others have said, too much we don't know.

Personally I'm thinking DRK is the developer's way of telling us "In case you haven't figured it out, these classes aren't going to work the same way as their namesake predecessors. We've made this one VERY different just to get that through your heads."
Namely, people should really stop thinking of the damn things in terms of FFXI or main series FFs, and start thinking of them in terms of the Tactics games, specifically Gafgarion's version from the original Tactics.
Y'know what he had? Abilities that stole HP and MP from the enemy and restored his own. Y'know what he didn't have? Abilities that damaged him to damage others. Granted there WAS a Dark Knight job in the remake that was opened up to everyone that DID have those abilities, but the three jobs we get seem strongly based on three Guest character exclusive jobs: Astrologist/Astrologer (Orran Durai), Machinist/Engineer (Mustadio), and Dark Knight/Fell Knight (Goffard Gafgarion)

In addition, there ARE other games where the "Dark Knight" class is an actual tank class. Namely the EverQuest games and WoW. Though Death Knights probably won't work the same way Dark Knights will, EQ1+2's Shadow Knights will probably be a decent reference for how it'll work.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Namely, people should really stop thinking of the damn things in terms of FFXI or main series FFs

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If wishing made it so...

This is like saying you can't speed-run with PLD, which is completely false. PLD's AoE aggro is almost entirely MP based.

Anyway,
I'd eat a hat if DRK didn't have some sort of MP regenerating ability. Speed running is fun for some people, why take that away?

Yeah just like war relies on tp so they can't speed run. Oh wait..
Or how pld needs mp to tank groups so they can't speed run. Oh wait.....

I imagine one of their stances will act similarly to a Black Mage's Umbral Ice stacks that'll allow them to regain MP at the trade-off of, idk, reduced damage and emnity.

Dark Knight will require you stack up on Mega Ethers or you won't be able to complete any dungeon in the game.

Source: They said the word "MP" or something.

Wouldn't surprise me if Astrologian has the MP-version of Goad.

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

I suppose it's possible, but the way they make it. Sound, and look, makes Me think it will be heavily mp based.

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Sounded to me like itll be using both. TP for physical attacks and MP for magic. How do you know it wont have some way of regenerating MP? Some AoE, high enmity, life leeching ability that regenerates MP sounds like itd fit the class perfectly.

Well I for one will play DRK and of course keep fast pace and pull big, when the group is geared enough so good luck with presuming there slow

Doing fast runs on both PLD and WAR should go towards the skill sets needed to do the above. Its going to be so hard to adapt those play styles for DRK (sarcasm love it)

Paladin has a bigger MP pool than warrior. My guess is that dark knight will have even more MP.

I really doubt they're going to gimp the hell out of their new class before it's even introduced.

This if off topic.

I completely misread the title and thought it said. "Dark Night -SEs way of spreading rumors".
Needless to say I'm kinda disappointed in the lack of rumors present in this thread.


*edit* to be on topic
Didn't Yoshi comment that right now the DK is a little over powered? We still have months to go before we actually get solid info.

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

Drk was a glass Cannon in XI that was always the first guy dead.

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<.< The glass cannon in XI was Blm. Bad Drks maybe, but good Drks could survive if aggro was pulled; There were ways. Hell I sometimes tanked mobs in dynamis as a Drk/Sam (Pre-WoTG, lvl 75) not intentionally, but just because I did that damage so I had to make sure I could take hits and whatnot before I poured out that damage as well as negating incoming damage with the use of various abilities and spells. Now that was fun.

It's kind of a shame there were so many horrible Drk players. On the bright side, it was kind of nice to have people compliment me after a party had come to an end, but also a shame they had to in the first place. Nostalgia is strong.

I'll definitely miss being a massive damage dealer, but XIV's Drk does sound like an interesting way to tank and I do still get to look badass. So I won't mind too much.

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

Never said it would be inferior. Just would have to have proper mana control. Pull too much and you dug your own grave(and your partys) pull normally and could have the potential to be the highest damaging tank in the game.

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The way I see it, when it comes to tanking they will be the equal of PLDs and WARs. Maybe in DPS stance, they will do more damage than other tanks at the expense of being more fragile due to their DPS skills draining HP.

That what I would like to think will happen anyway.

A tanking class that doesn't at least have the ability to speed run is a bad tanking class. A tank needs to be able to handle both single mobs and large groups of mobs to be considered well-rounded, and I don't think that SE is going to skimp on either aspect for Dark Knight. I would't be worried; however DRK manages its MP, it's going to be able to keep up with what PLD and WAR can do.

The design of DPS aoe abilities makes it pretty clear that SE is not, and never has been, "against" speed running in the way some players are. With the exception of Flare and Bane (for different reasons), most DPSs' aoe abilities are designed so that four mobs is the MINIMUM point at which those abilities become superior to single-target attacks in terms of damage dealt. Each mob added on top of that greatly increases the total damage being dealt by the aoe. DPSs' aoes would have no purpose at all, if not for the expectation that tanks are going to pull more than four mobs at a time. SE built speed running into the game from the ground up.

Speed running isn't the only way to run a dungeon, but if the players are skilled and geared enough to handle it, it is the efficient way, and is working as designed.

You've got to be kidding right? Right now, Paladin's speed-running capabilities (aoe aggro on several mobs) is purely MP-gated (with the exception of a 25s Circle of Scorn) and they can still get the job done.

Dark Knight + Healer + Bard + Blm = infinite mp for everyone

What was that about not doing speed runs?

If DRK can't do speed runs, people just wont take them on SRs, simple as that. GL spamming dungeons for relic, or w/e.

People should stop thinking of everything in terms of "how XI did it". This isn't XI, and I think instead of announcing a mobile version of it earlier today SE should have announced a HD remake so all of you could just go back.

3badlynostalgic5me

You realise that if DRK can't do speedrun pulls then people will just not want DRK's right? PLD and WAR will be in demand as ever.
Topic is dumb though, DRK absolutely will be able to do speedpulls, PLD aoe enmity is MP based too and it was never an issue for them.

DRK is the tank that eorzea's dungeons deserve but not the one it needs.

SE has already forced speedrunners to slow down by designing every dungeon as a hallway with locked doors every 2 pulls. What more do you want? A GM to join you in the dungeon and hold your hand so you can fight one mob at a time?

Gods, the things I would do if Paladin was more like FFT's Holy Knight.

Just because the Dark Knight's resource base is going to be MP doesn't mean it won't have a way to regain mp in a very quick fashion. I'd imagine they probably have a more potent version of the PLD's Riot Blade for MP gain. This would be game breaking if they had access to Flash, but I also suspect that one of the major drawbacks of these "Jobs" is that they won't get any cross-class skills, which will prevent them from getting Flash. I'm pretty sure MP management for Dark Knights will be very similar to the MP management for Black Mages.