So...about Arcanist

I was wondering how come Arcanist can't queue as healer. They are just as viable as CNJ and can heal just as good.

It never made sense to me that when they finally become 30 that suddenly your thrust into the healing role.

I've always felt that ACN should be able to queue dd or heal and then that way when it comes they are prepared for the swap.

I shrug. Just throwing this out there.

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Reply to Ignnis since I can't post again for today:
I've never seen traits as a major wall-stopper at lower levels. I don't think it really matters to any class, even tanks, at low levels until getting into that job role.

Ignnis: *I've seen some horrifying tanks pre 30 and paring an int acn with in stats would be a recipie for disaster. On your line of thought any pre 30 class could just cross class cure/physik and que as heals or cross class flash and skull sunder and que as tank (God forbid)
Those classes with cross class shouldn't be able to queue because most of the people who level glad, thm, or what not - don't even bother cross class leveling till they are hit with that 30 bump that tells them you need to go get this class to 15.

Reply to:

*They would have to develop a system where you can choose whether you want to heal or dd on this class
I don't see why it's a big deal - healers are always short on lower levels, this could be a good thing. But I see your reasoning for it being a hardship when it takes a year to make a new class.


*Should they allow ACN to heal after level 30? If yes, he is underpowered, if no, it feels incosistent imo
I meant it as below level 30.

*Why not allow queue as heal also for BLM with cure/physik crossclass too then?
Because people who lvl thm sometimes don't swap classes when leveling to 30. (ie didn't build healer for cure even if its at lvl2)
While ACN is given psyhik at low levels -> 30.

*ACN itemization is built on INT, while Conjurer can equip most level 50 mind stuff, arcanist can't.
Speaking about under level 30 here. Considering anything under 30 casters can roll on healer gear.

*Technically, I would guess every class/job is limited to one role, for reasons of balancing and simplicity
Shrugs. This is their reasoning I guess.

Reply @ Nylia
Nyalia

You could say the same about CNJ. Yesterday the healer in our PT had a fit since one qued for WoD.
But you do make a point with the rest of your post.

/touche.
Nyalia has defeated me. ^^
Edit:
Fixed for nitpickers

Getting that lvl 29 arc who puts all his points into int and ques as a healer.

Nitpicking but... ARC is Archer. Arcanist is ACN and Conjurer is CNJ, not CON.

Some random thoughts about it:

• They would have to develop a system where you can choose wether you want to heal or dps on this class
• Should they allow ACN to heal after level 30? If yes, he is underpowered, if no, it feels incosistent imo
• That's not really a negative point: why not allow queue as heal also for BLM with cure/physik crossclass too then?
• ACN itemization is built on INT, while Conjurer can equip most level 50 mind stuff, arcanist can't
• Technically, I would guess every class/job is limited to one role, for reasons of balancing and simplicity

I've seen some horrifying tanks pre 30 and paring an int acn with in stats would be a recipie for disaster. On your line of thought any pre 30 class could just cross class cure/physik and que as heals or cross class flash and skull sunder and que as tank (God forbid).

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Originally Posted by Ignnis

I've seen some horrifying tanks pre 30 and paring an int acn with in stats would be a recipie for disaster. On your line of thought any pre 30 class could just cross class cure/physik and que as heals or cross class flash and skull sunder and que as tank (God forbid).

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Well technically, you forget that Arcanist has a pet which allows them to multitask without giving up too much dps. Other dps classes can't do this. You can tank heal and dps an entire dungeon as Arcanist.

That said Arcanist is merely a support dps class and should remain so.

No real need for it not like it takes that long to hit level 30 and get your Healer job if you want to do that. Allowing an ACN to heal just feels like a shortcut to leveling for them because they are only viable as Healers up to a certain point.

ACN pets can't heal. The biggest thing an SCH brings to the party pre-30 is the fairy, who is a good enough healer to solo-heal pre-30 dungeons. An ACN would be hard-pressed to heal on their own in the 25-29 range. An SCH with no fairy would similarly have trouble healing in the 25-29 range, but that's why they have the fairy. And, as pointed out, how would they be stopped from queuing as a healer in post-30 content? Can you imagine an ACN queuing as a healer for, say, WoD just to troll? It would let people queue as healers and then play as DPS, which is bad. As pointed out above, ACNs can't wear healer equipment after a certain point when healer and caster split off. The classes on gear become CNJ/WHM/SCH for healer gear and THM/BLM/ACN/SMN for caster gear. For books, only SCH can wield healer books, and ACN/SMN can wield caster books (apart from the SMN relic, which is SMN only).

Like another said, BLM and PLD can cross-class physic/cure respectively, but would make terrible healers. Allowing ACN to queue as healer in level 50 content but not a PLD to do so too is totally inconsistent. (You can argue that not all THM/BLMs have Physic, but all PLDs must get access to Cure to get their class crystal, so you can't say that not all PLDs have Cure. And, you can change cross-class skills mid-dungeon.)

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

snip

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What about a conjurer signing as healer for the harder content? Or any level 50, with the way everyone likes to speed run. The conjurer would have zero cooldowns to use on a pull. That's no different from an arcanist signing as healer, and its currently possible to do.


Before level 30 THM/ACN can easily heal dungeons, so I too find it odd that they can't queue as healer for said dungeons.
Trolling higher level content is easily prevented by only having the option to sign as healer for <30 content.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

It would let people queue as healers and then play as DPS, which is bad.

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Which people already do anyway. I suspect over half of the DF scholars spend more time dpsing then healing, since they are well aware you can't see what they are doing.
And plenty of white mages just don't care.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Before level 30 THM/ACN can easily heal dungeons, so I too find it odd that they can't queue as healer for said dungeons.
Trolling higher level content is easily prevented by only having the option to sign as healer for <30 content.

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I would guess every class/job is limited to one role, for reasons of balancing and simplicity.
You'd still need a way to choose wether heal or dps when you queue up.
Short put, they would need to rework DF ,which might not be as trivial as one might think and they might think the time is better spent somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Which people already do anyway. I suspect over half of the DF scholars spend more time dpsing then healing, since they are well aware you can't see what they are doing.
And plenty of white mages just don't care.

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Whats your point here? Can't see what they're doing?
Last time I checked healers contributing some DPS while keeping the party alive are a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

What about a conjurer signing as healer for the harder content? Or any level 50, with the way everyone likes to speed run. The conjurer would have zero cooldowns to use on a pull. That's no different from an arcanist signing as healer, and its currently possible to do.

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I disagree with this statement. ACNs have no healing skills beyond Physick and Resurrection, even at 50. CNJs have plenty of healing skills beyond Cure - Esuna, Raise, Medica, Cure 2, aspected Stoneskin, Cure 3, Medica 2. The only healing skills (not counting CDs) a CNJ would lose are Regen and Benediction. While those two are very useful, you can't say that a CNJ at 50 is "the same" as an ACN at 50 as far as healing ability goes. Plus, there's the gear thing - ACNs at 50 cannot wear endgame healer gear. CNJs at 50 can. Gear does matter.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Before level 30 THM/ACN can easily heal dungeons, so I too find it odd that they can't queue as healer for said dungeons.
Trolling higher level content is easily prevented by only having the option to sign as healer for <30 content.

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I'd guess the reason it's prevented is simply consistency, especially around level 30. Allowing an SCH-to-be to queue as a healer at 29 brings up the weirdness of leveling to 30 while in the dungeon and how the game handles it. And then what about ACNs who queue at 29 and then level to 30 before their duty pops? Sure, there are solutions to these things, but the more complex the situation, the more coding is required. Personally, I don't think the benefit outweighs the cost. And, again, SCHs have fairies that make them just as good as CNJs at healing low level content. Without the fairy, they're much worse, but that's why they have the fairy. The fairy heals more than the SCH at low levels, so an ACN would have less than half the healing power of an SCH.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Which people already do anyway. I suspect over half of the DF scholars spend more time dpsing then healing, since they are well aware you can't see what they are doing.
And plenty of white mages just don't care.

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Except while they are DPSing, their fairy is healing. So, they are fulfilling the healer role, even if they are dealing damage at the same time. This would not be true for an int-spec ACN. Note that Cleric Stance does not work well in reverse as it gives a healing potency penalty while active.

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Originally Posted by Ignnis

I've seen some horrifying tanks pre 30 and paring an int acn with in stats would be a recipie for disaster. On your line of thought any pre 30 class could just cross class cure/physik and que as heals or cross class flash and skull sunder and que as tank (God forbid).

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Skull Sunder is useless without Heavy Swing, the combo creates the Enmity of 200, you won't hold anything even spamming 100 potency.

Let's try doing a premade group with one tank, two dps, and a non-soulstone ACN in Aurum Vale.
Because that's what would happen.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Skull Sunder is useless without Heavy Swing, the combo creates the Enmity of 200, you won't hold anything even spamming 100 potency.

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Not that you're wrong, but I wanted to point out that Skull Sunder has its 3.5x enmity multiplier even when used out of combo. So, even though it's a 100 potency attack out of combo, it still does 350 potency worth of enmity generation. That's almost as much as a non-ranged tomahawk (tomahawk is 390 enmity potency). In the very early dungeons, before you get Butcher's Block, a MRD spamming Skull Sunder is almost as effective at holding aggro as one that uses Heavy Swing -> Skull Sunder (average enmity of pure Skull Sunder: 350, average enmity of 1-2 combo: 425).

So, you could totally tank as an LNC in, say, Sastasha normal by cross-classing Skull Sunder and Flash. Should you? Probably not. But could you? Yes. This is the point people are making - it's the same argument as an ACN healing. And would you want that LNC to tank Aurum Vale? Yes, because it'd be hilarious No, absolutely not.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

Not that you're wrong, but I wanted to point out that Skull Sunder has its 3.5x enmity multiplier even when used out of combo. So, even though it's a 100 potency attack out of combo, it still does 350 potency worth of enmity generation. That's almost as much as a non-ranged tomahawk (tomahawk is 390 enmity potency). In the very early dungeons, before you get Butcher's Block, a MRD spamming Skull Sunder is almost as effective at holding aggro as one that uses Heavy Swing -> Skull Sunder (average enmity of pure Skull Sunder: 350, average enmity of 1-2 combo: 425).

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Had to look that up, thanks for the info, I did not know that the enmity was 350 potency str8 up.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Had to look that up, thanks for the info, I did not know that the enmity was 350 potency str8 up.

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There is some disagreement on whether the enmity multiplier for Skull Sunder is 3.5x or 3x. Either way, you can totally hold aggro with it as a cross-class skill....... in Sastasha (Normal) (and likely the other early dungeons as well, up through Toto-rak).