Healer LB is really....underwhelming.

It's supposed to be this "OH SH---" button, and yet it has a long cast time and feels about as potent as a Medica (except you can't swift-cast it). Now, now I can hear the fanboys load and clear "But Billygoat, MUH REVIVE!" but let's be honest, has healer LB ever actually saved anyone from a wipe? It would be nice if they at least removed the casting time on it.

This bothers me too. 99% of all LB usage is from DPS. While it probably won't change a lot but taking away cool things from DPS and giving it to Tank/Healer may somewhat balance the populations of each group.

LB1 useless.
LB2 feels useless most of the time but can save a raid if you see the wipe coming. e.g. In an all area AoE sandwich, the ot and co-hlr died bc they got hit by stuff, and the boss is really laying into the mt.
LB3 - The LB3's animation bothers me, I hate to use it since it's practically suicide. If I don't rez one tank before hand if both happen to die it is suicide since I'm helpless locked down there and an AoE spawns underneath or I can't heal the few dps still alive between me and the threat. I also feel like it not having a Protectga + Shellga (i.e White Wind) incorporated into it is another huge fail. One reason I'm disappointed going into 3.0 since bards will be losing the healer lb.

It's actually saved us from wiping in countless Shiva ex runs, along with a couple t10s and at least once in t11. I admit it's pretty underwhelming usually but it's been oddly useful lately.

1 bar heal LB should be a Aoe targeted circle (like sacred soil) that lasts 15-20 seconds. peeps inside circle enjoy status effect immunity and regen at a potency of 100/3 seconds

2 bar Healer LB should be a "lifesteal" from the targeted mob(s) doing about 1/2-2/3 the damage of a dps lb. HP received from the lifesteal gets spread out evenly among (alive) party members.

3 bar LB shouldnt be any different than it is now, but more immediate when cast.

A full heal and revive to everyone. It honestly can't get better than that.

And yes. I've had several runs be saved by healer LBs. Namely stuff like turn 10, Shiva EX, Ramuh EX, etc.

another issue with healer LB3 is that you dont get those few seconds of invincibility you'd get from a normal Raise/Resurrection.
So in content like t5/t9/t13, if you were bumped by divebombs and died on the shock border of the arena, you'll insta-die after being insta-raised by healer LB3...
Giving you another "stack" of weakness after you are raised again...

Also it has some range, i've seen some ppl NOT being raised by healer LB3.
Healers get animation locked for like 5 seconds AFTER the cast ended.

So if in theory an "instant" raise to everyone sounds good... in actual content there are many issues that make it not as good as someone would think it is.

I have had LB3 save a HM run back in the day. However, the animation is painfully long. The fatality rate for a healer when they use LB3 is rather high because you are animation locked for nearly 10 seconds. That is a painfully long time to be still.

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Originally Posted by aerolol

another issue with healer LB3 is that you dont get those few seconds of invincibility you'd get from a normal Raise/Resurrection.
So in content like t5/t9/t13, if you were bumped by divebombs and died on the shock border of the arena, you'll insta-die after being insta-raised by healer LB3...
Giving you another "stack" of weakness after you are raised again...

Also it has some range, i've seen some ppl NOT being raised by healer LB3.
Healers get animation locked for like 5 seconds AFTER the cast ended.

So if in theory an "instant" raise to everyone sounds good... in actual content there are many issues that make it not as good as someone would think it is.

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There's also this strange delay where If someone dies at just the right time (because, you know, you are unable to heal them for so long) they stay dead while everyone else is being revived. So now your party is up, but your tank is dead and the boss rolls your PT anyways.

I am sure nobody wants to hear it, but the truth to be told, the moment a healer or a tank uses lb (1 - 3 don't matter) the group should be disbanded. If you are in a duty finder and this occurs, make sure you get your butt out of that dungeons as quick as possible. Therefore the looks of LB 1 - 3 for healers is irrelevant since in no cases a healer should have to use the lb.

Tank lb - progression
Dps lb - norm/ good party
Tank lb + dps lb - world 1st tactics
Healer lb - party is bad
Future support - why even unless op buffs but still probably not enough to win vote over dps

Thats the problem with this game atm as every fight almost feels like there is only 1 hallway to walk down and if ur not doing that, then there is something wrong.

I'm actually kinda bummed out Bards are getting a dps lb. We get way more utility out of LB3 than healers do (healers are dead, bard lb), and adding one more dps lb to the pool is hardly necessary.

In a perfect word I think Healers should have an LB that tops off health and shields like the current tank lb (degree of shield dependant on lb bars), bards would have a raise + stun the boss lb(length of stun dependant on bars) and tanks could have an invulnerability one that also fills everyones tp and mp(length of invulnerability dependant on bars).

Either way, definately going to miss my "oh s***" button.

I'd rather have the weakness removed on a lb3 <_<

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Originally Posted by LunaFaye

I am sure nobody wants to hear it, but the truth to be told, the moment a healer or a tank uses lb (1 - 3 don't matter) the group should be disbanded. If you are in a duty finder and this occurs, make sure you get your butt out of that dungeons as quick as possible. Therefore the looks of LB 1 - 3 for healers is irrelevant since in no cases a healer should have to use the lb.

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I partially agree. If the party is familiar with a specific content and relies on LB1-3, yes it should probably disband. But for newer or returning players, it's a good asset that sometimes requires "judgment" to use. A veteran player with terrible teammates could carry a boss with his LB. I think it's a decent use in this regard.

To be honest, when considering that we are healers, nothing would be better than a full res with full hp, mp etc. That's why I would not want lb3 changed. However it would be nice if lb1 and lb2 were changed to something like mitigation, as they are pretty much useless, more so if you have a good WHM.

Healer LB3 is terrible, and it's rare that it actually saves anyone since it not only causes the caster to be rooted for several seconds but raises party members exactly where they fell, even if they happened to die in the deep end of an instant kill zone.

Besides, DPS LB is a key part of most progression strategies, meaning that if your party isn't overgeared for the content or doesn't play flawlessly, sacrificing the DPS LB is as good as ensuring a wipe if the group struggles at all to meet a tight DPS check.

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Originally Posted by LunaFaye

the moment a healer or a tank uses lb (1 - 3 don't matter) the group should be disbanded.

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That awkward moment when you need Tank LB 2-3 to live through Teraflare in t13.

I really like the Healer LB animations...
one and two are sorta meh but I really love Pulse of Life.

A time when LB2 came in handy:
Last fifty percent of Tam-tara HM last boss. Healer and other DPS kick the bucket. Tank and I (bard) are going okay so we stick it out. Gets to the point where tank is going to die, I am also at my last breath here... boss only has about ten percent left. I go for it, LB2, we win.
We would have not won if I hadn't done the LB. We may have survived if the tank did LB for a little while but certainly not long enough to actually kill the boss.

So yes, it is useful

I find no use in the healer LB1 or 2, and have only seen them being used out of curiosity or boredom. That the bards can use the healer LB is a neat trick, but also one that almost never finds use aside from freak occurrences.

The LB 3 is better since it refreshes mana (and maybe TP, I honestly can't remember) with the resurrection, but it would be far more useful if it was done with a unique and less severe version of weakness or without weakness altogether. If SE decides to revamp the healer LP in HW I would shed no tears for the ones we have now. Unlike the DPS and tank LB (T13 lol), the healer LB seems to have no role in a well planned and executed encounter. And that's a damn shame.

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Originally Posted by LunaFaye

I am sure nobody wants to hear it, but the truth to be told, the moment a healer or a tank uses lb (1 - 3 don't matter) the group should be disbanded. If you are in a duty finder and this occurs, make sure you get your butt out of that dungeons as quick as possible. Therefore the looks of LB 1 - 3 for healers is irrelevant since in no cases a healer should have to use the lb.

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I get the impression you've never done coil or an EX primal.
As I said, healer LB saves runs all the time. It just has to be a fight where the dps LB isn't 100% needed to succeed.

Also, Tank LB is required to survive Turn 13 and makes Ultima hard mode a whole lot easier...so...may wanna check your facts.

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Originally Posted by Eisenhower

the healer LB seems to have no role in a well planned and executed encounter. And that's a damn shame.

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Not really?

I mean, the only way it would have a 'role' is if there was a mechanic that literally killed everyone and there's nothing you could do about it. And that's just poor encounter design.

It's an LB made to be used as a last ditch effort if things go to hell. All it needs to be.

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Originally Posted by Hybris-Maenad

I'm actually kinda bummed out Bards are getting a dps lb. We get way more utility out of LB3 than healers do (healers are dead, bard lb), and adding one more dps lb to the pool is hardly necessary.

In a perfect word I think Healers should have an LB that tops off health and shields like the current tank lb (degree of shield dependant on lb bars), bards would have a raise + stun the boss lb(length of stun dependant on bars) and tanks could have an invulnerability one that also fills everyones tp and mp(length of invulnerability dependant on bars).

Either way, definately going to miss my "oh s***" button.

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Same....I saved a Garuda EX party (with several DFed new peeps in the party, hence the derping) with a clutch Bard LB3.
I find, a good chunk of the time, that when a party goes down while I'm on bard, I'm either the last one, or another ranged is all that's left alive in a bad run. I'm completely fine with having no DPS-based LB3 when I'm on bard (though, kinda tedious when you're running a dungeon with two bards as the dps...) if it means there's a possible hope/chance that a surviving DPS can get everyone and, importantly, the healers back up...

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

It's an LB made to be used as a last ditch effort if things go to hell. All it needs to be.

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That's what it IS, but it shouldn't have to be something so lacklustre and it definitely doesn't need to be relegated to such a singular role. That is why I think it's a shame the healer LB exist in the space it does (along with the tank LB).

For the melee and ranged DPS, their LB can be used to quickly damage targets that you don't want to deal with the normal way, to finish of a target before or after it's all gone to hell or just to push the fight into another phase. It's a tool that can be used in different situations.

The same cannot be said about the healer and tank LBs. Their utility is narrower and there are few situations in this game where they can be used to manipulate a fight in the same way the DPS LBs can.

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Originally Posted by Eisenhower

-snip-

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On the other hand, melee and ranged DPS LBs are almost always non-necessary. Most of the times they get used, it's because they're available, but not because they need to be used. They're routine; something to push the numbers along a little faster.

The tank and healer LBs, though, if used when needed, are life-savers, literally. They can atone for a lot of sins committed early in the fight. I would prefer to see the healer's in particular get a bit of a boost at lower levels, though. (If things are bad enough you'll need it, someone's already on the ground, most likely.)

They should add MP restore to all 3 levels of the LB.

LB1 - should do more than a cure 3, health healed should be a %

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Originally Posted by Reinfeld

(...)but let's be honest, has healer LB ever actually saved anyone from a wipe?(...)

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yes it did and it was part of several tactics in the past.

But the Tank LB and the healer LB are kind of gamechanger if anything went wrong or is about to get realy nasty, while the DPS-LB is for the standard situation.

My gripe with the healer LB is that a handful of "this one time at band camp" stories about how it was useful don't make it anything better than extremely situational, and only then if everything has already gone to hell and you have nothing to lose.

What was said about it having no place in a well-planned and executed encounter was true; it's an extremely slow, risky, butt-clenching excuse for a panic button.

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Originally Posted by Ramien

On the other hand, melee and ranged DPS LBs are almost always non-necessary. [...] The tank and healer LBs, though, if used when needed, are life-savers, literally. [...]

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That the tank and healer LBs being life-savers does not inherently increase their value as compared to the oft-used DPS LBs. It is part of their very function and it does not make them more necessary than their DPS counterpart. Arguably, no LB is necessary and the mechanical hurdle can be overcome by other means. The frequency of their use is based on their utility and the problem remains that the tank and healer LBs comparatively lack that flexibility and utility.

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Originally Posted by CycLee

yes [the healer LB saved people from a wipe] and it was part of several tactics in the past.

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I don't think I've been raiding (I'm assuming) for long enough to experience these tactics. I'm curious now. When/where was using the healer LBs an planned part of an encounter and how was it used? Why was it discontinued?

On a side note, if translations are correct, Yoshi seems to be saying that, with the LB revamp, existing LB3 effects are being divvied out as individual class skills in Heavensward, meaning that WHM at least is likely to be able to do this under its own power, while SCH will probably get a whole new skill.

I guess the reason y LB3 roots u in place and makes u pray on ur knees is cuz it wants u to pray tht u won't get hit by any aoes or tank busting moves lol.

But i'm sure the scenario where you LB3 party and revive everyone only to have urself die and be the only one on the floor happened to a lot of ppl lol.
Oh well its working as intended lol

At the right time? Yes, i have saved the day, dont know on what situations you r using it, it has to be on a precise moment, no every healer knows it

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Originally Posted by Ramien

On the other hand, melee and ranged DPS LBs are almost always non-necessary. Most of the times they get used, it's because they're available, but not because they need to be used. They're routine; something to push the numbers along a little faster.

The tank and healer LBs, though, if used when needed, are life-savers, literally. They can atone for a lot of sins committed early in the fight. I would prefer to see the healer's in particular get a bit of a boost at lower levels, though. (If things are bad enough you'll need it, someone's already on the ground, most likely.)

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I find that 99% of the time, DPS LB's aren't needed... in fact the LB is only being used "cause it's there" and it knocks the last 5% off the boss, which saves an entire 30 seconds from the run, oh ~yayy~~~.

The healer/tank LB on the other hand I've only ever seen used once. Mainly because the only time it's ever been used is when the Tank has been killed, and just revived as the rest of the party dies.

Most appropriate use of any LB? That 20 second countdown with the Ultima Weapon. Worst use of LB: Entire party has full HP and the boss has 10% of it's HP left and has no party-killer moves.

What I hate the most about heal lb3 is that if you are alive the lb only restores your HP. Everyone else revived get full HP and MP.

If I know heal lb3 and my MP is low I try to get hit and die. Res debuff is preferred over no MP.

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Originally Posted by CycLee

yes it did and it was part of several tactics in the past.

But the Tank LB and the healer LB are kind of gamechanger if anything went wrong or is about to get realy nasty, while the DPS-LB is for the standard situation.

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What was healer LB used as a tactic for exactly? And part of my complaint is the fact that it's reaction times are so sluggish, would be much more "Game-chaning" if it didn't tank 20 years to use. As for the game-changer part, tank and healer LBs are extremely situational. Neither will save you from most wipes (Tank maybe in Garuda Ex, or WoD if your PT screws up and cant kill orbs, ect.) and the likelyhood of wiping withing 20 seconds of using the LBs is extremely high.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

I find that 99% of the time, DPS LB's aren't needed... in fact the LB is only being used "cause it's there" and it knocks the last 5% off the boss, which saves an entire 30 seconds from the run, oh ~yayy~~~.

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You'll find differently if you observe fights with meaningful phase changes.

LBs are fluff for casual content in that good groups don't need them, while truly bad groups probably won't be saved by them.

Saved an Ifrit EX run from a wipe with the healer LB today. Reaffirmed my stance.

I'm all for making it better, but healing by definition is making the bars be not-empty. I'm really not sure how a healer LB could be any better than it currently is without taking something that is already done by another LB.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Saved an Ifrit EX run from a wipe with the healer LB today. Reaffirmed my stance.

I'm all for making it better, but healing by definition is making the bars be not-empty. I'm really not sure how a healer LB could be any better than it currently is without taking something that is already done by another LB.

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Adding raise effects earlier, adding regen effects after the raise, and/or healing everyone's mp, not just people raised would be good starts, in my mind.