Can someone explain to me Lazy Tanking please.

Ok I've been playing Warrior for quite sometime now doing dungeons and all and everything was going great. Being a tank was fun, easy, cool until this one dungeon called Brayflox's Longstop pops up. Now I thought being a tank was all about taking aggro and keeping it away from the rest of the team mainly your healers. After this dungeon I was called lazy tanking. I'm not sure what that is meant and no one is taking the time to explain this. Now before I start lashing back at healer who think putting minions to sleep while tank is low on HP is more effective and leaving me to die is the best choice explain to me what I am doing wrong. I pull aggro and actually damn good at it and I keep it but its useless if i cant stay alive because Healers are idk looking at scenery because no one else besides me is taking damage and then i get hit with the lazy tanking comments. Please help me understand.

It might be that you weren't pulling fast enough, or they misinterpreted your toolkit at your current level. Brayflox Normal is probably the most horrid tanking experience I've had so far -- and I survived going blind into AV lol. A lot of these lazy claims lately have been speed-run based. A lot of the healers I've run into during that dungeon will use sleep on adds BECAUSE they understand that it's hard on newer tanks at that level; our toolkits don't fully flesh out till 40 though 30 is often good enough for slower pulls.

Its not even that its the healers are letting me die with the comment lazy tanking. Now I pulled aggro like I said I pull it and keep it under control. Its rare that minions leave my attention. Yes it cost more TP when Bards and black mages are around but none the less i care about my team sooo i spend the needed TP to keep aggro. What got me is lately a lot of healers rather do other things instead of heal me and when I die the comment "if you keep being a lazy tank your healers will let you die"..........Hmmm sooo pulling aggro wasnt enough? Keeping crowd control wasnt enough? If i could record my play you would see well he pulling and keeping aggro why is healer doing other things then healing him. Now the comeback response is why what i just typed.

Yes I noticed that which is why I'm starting to think going into Brayflox as a warrior is the dumbest thing ever. Defiance isnt backed up by anything but more hp and 3% magic buffs. Now I ran this dungeon plenty of times without Defiance and the healer kept me alive and it was actually a very quick run as a marauder but its dealing with those who think they understand the game and become tunnel vision with class more so then whats available at the current lvl. Tank classes suck at early stages I'm going through that crisis now actually finally surpassed it and now that i understand how to use Warrior more so then Marauder healers just let me die instead of heal me. And I've been in parties where my Health never drop past half vs those where i have to pop Hi potions and use every thing i have to stay alive while they DPS -___- thats becoming an issue in my books.

While I couldn't understand every point in your post and what you mean by "Lazy tanking", it is certainly not advisable going into Brayflox NM being a Marauder. Now THAT would be a reason to be called a "Lazy tank", because the Healer would automatically assume that you delayed your job quest and have not obtained your Warrior crystal yet. You wouldn't be happy either to find a Conjurer instead of a Whitemage in your lvl 30+ group because it means you are missing out on Cure 2.

Btw, Defiance does not only increase your HP but also increases the amount of heal you receive by the same percentage. It is usually mandatory to have it switched on to easen the burden on your healer.

I would just like to chime in here for one second. As someone who had played both healer and tank extensively I know you technically do more damage without Defiance, but if your healers are doing "other things" as you said (by which I assume you mean they are DPSing) it's likely that Defiance will allow your healer time to deal much more damage than you could contribute in your unbuffed state. Defiance really makes that big a difference between your bigger HP pool and buffed heals. That's especially true when you reach level 40+ dungeons and your WHM/SCHs have access to Holy/Bane.
Now, if I get one of those lazy "I'm gonna sit here doing nothing for 10 seconds then throw out a cure, regen and afk again" sometime's I'll say fuck em and drop Defiance.

And the term "Lazy Tanking" isn't in common use so I have no idea what he meant by that, I would have had to see what the run was like. Though if you have your warrior crystal you should never be running Marauder. The Devs intended for classes to be "good for small party content", but in reality they are complete and utter garbage.

lazy tanking is used by most healers that complain of tanks not popping enough cooldowns or any defensive skills in time. With that said, I can recommend that you ignore it.

I took a break from the game and just got back a little while ago, I've never seen so much bad healers/tanks and dps than nowadays. If you die due to an healer dps'ing then remove the healer. If you die because you stand there 45 minutes and healer runs out of mp, you run out of tp and the dps still hasn't killed 1 mob, replace the dps. Makes life so much easier and you can move on.

Maybe you're just running into an unfortunate number of people that don't understand that tanks have a very short list of defensive cooldowns/abilities available in low level dungeons. Are you using Inner Beast, Thrill of Battle, Bloodbath and Foresight when you have them available? Have you cross-classed Convalescence? If you're doing all of these things, then just shrug and chalk it up to someone being clueless. If you aren't, that's probably why you're being called lazy. If you run into a healer that's too busy dps'ing to heal (or worse yet, is just standing there as if they were afk), by all means vote kick and replace them. The healer's primary role is to keep the party healthy. If they aren't doing that, there's probably someone else that would be happy to JIP and take their place.

Three things:

1.) Looked at your Lodestone profile and you have no accessories. You'll want to invest in either getting VIT ones (for more health) or STR ones (for more DPS/aggro).

2.) You'll want to go WAR in Brayflox - MRD has it's merits in some dungeons but for the most part that extra boon to HP and access to Inner Beast is a life saver. The increase of healers cure potency on you is actually 20%, which is quite significant. Sometimes you can turn Defiance off to deal more damage, but your first job as a tank is to keep aggro and not die - both of which are helped greatly by having Defiance on.

3.) As Ashkendor said, make sure you're popping defensive CDs, even on trash. It can help a lot. Some relatively experienced healers will DPS, so you may dip lower than normal, but the good ones won't let you die. If you do die, and you've used defensive CDs, it's their fault.

Healing a warrior in Brayflox who won't put up defiance is a nightmare. The mobs hit relatively hard and your health will be extremely spiky. If you are dying then what you are doing is a dps loss and defeats the purpose of dropping defiance. The healer was probably sleeping mobs because they literally could not you up otherwise. OP, your healer was a saint if they completed the dungeon with you anyway. I would have vote dismissed you if you had not put up defiance after requesting you to.

That said, there are times you can drop defiance to push dps, but this should be after establishing solid threat, after your healer has a good handle on your health, and with a major defensive CD up. Learning to stand dance isn't a bad idea but if you happen to die when defiance is down this is always your fault.

The main thing that Defiance does, btw, is doubling the aggro you get from skills. Meaning less TP will go to holding those mobs securely. Also, each stack raises your crit rate. So even if you happen to have no skill to use those stacks on (synched to level 34 is horrible), you still gain a lot more from it than "more hp + higher incoming healing".

Maybe you were just spamming flash and overpower to hold aggro?
Run out of MP/TP by end of a pull and sit around for 20 seconds to regen, etc.

I've seen plenty of those 2 skill tanks, hell I'm one of them when I do lower lvl dungeons, I just pull extra groups to do it..

Thanks for the comments a lot advice given were actually helpful. I got past the lazy tanking. It was comment that I'm not defending my self enough so the healer just let me die. Defending as in popping extra armor or life steal ect ect. Now that goes back to my comment why I believe lvl 30 warriors are not good. I played this dungeon as both a MAR and WAR and for some odd reason my clear time is faster as a MAR then a WAR and my CC (crowd control) waaay better. Im not saying MAR is better then WAR just don't think WAR is any good at lvl 30-34. What I will say is Brayflox can be done with a MAR or War without Defiance and you'll have quicker run because your dps have more of an effect. BUT you have to have a trusty healer or else pop defiance and hi potions.

I believe Brayflox is the beginning break away from players with skills from those who just play. A lot of things I had to learn as far as playing in Brayflox such as team synergy, calming down accidental pulls, keeping aggro on those who believe AOE skills are the way to go, or cocky dps who believe they can tank 4 mobs -_- and then run in circles making it hard to pull mobs and my favorite the healer have to heal other teammates because they feel sitting in the acid pulls generate health while there is a dragon that gnaws on my face. Honestly it may sound like I'm complaining or down playing other but it made me a better tank going through these trails and issues. My concern now is when I see healers who rather dps -_- then keep the tank alive who tanking 4 mobs or a main Boss and blames me upon my own death. At this point it became painfully obvious if you don't have a trusty healer bring pots and use some skills to survive on your own healer are no longer humble anymore haha.

there is no reason to ever run mrd over war for anything other than pvp
just for being war, you get a boost to str and vit

As other's said you should not play marauder since you have warrior. That's probably the reason they were mad because by that point you should have WAR already. Playing war means it will be easier to keep mobs focused on you.

WARs rely on HP for damage mitigation and defiance increase HP 25% and HP recovery via healing spells by 20% and increases enmity. It makes it easier for healers to heal you. At level 35 you get "Inner Beast" which ireduces damage you get by 20%. You need to be a WAR and use defiance all the time.

But yes, I agree that healers should not focus on DPSing in your case and should focus on keeping you alive and when the dps get mobs on them they should run to you

Right now you are maybe concerned to see Healers who DPS, but when you are lvl 50 and have gained more thorough understanding of the game mechanics, you WILL be glad to see Healer who can DPS and keep you alive at the same time. Saves you so much time on trash mobs and even boss fights. Low HP means nothing as long as you don't die, learn to trust your healers (even the ones in DF).

And AOE skills are the way to go during trash pulls, you need to get used to keeping aggro on those. Being a Warrior makes this really easy, ask your fellow Paladins who do not have access to Overpower and Shield oath...

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Originally Posted by RecklessLion

At this point it became painfully obvious if you don't have a trusty healer bring pots and use some skills to survive on your own healer are no longer humble anymore haha.

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Even when you have a good healer you should be popping all your cool downs and potions. A healer only has a finite amount of MP to heal you and if you can't take the time to help mitigate your HP loss it means you and the party will wipe.

Defiance also doubles your enmity generation across the board. Its a blanket increase.

Get accessories.

Just be happy that you aren't using Paladin. They don't get Shield Oath till level 40.

Use Defiance. Pop CD's.

Also....have you used any of your Bonus Points? Should put them all into VIT while you are leveling.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Just be happy that you aren't using Paladin. They don't get Shield Oath till level 40.

Use Defiance. Pop CD's.

Also....have you used any of your Bonus Points? Should put them all into VIT while you are leveling.

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STR is just as valid as VIT for both PLD and WAR.

All points into STR = more enmity generation and more DPS as OT
All points into VIT = more HP

If you find at endgame that you can't keep aggro, more STR is definitely beneficial. If you find at endgame you can't stay alive, more VIT is definitely beneficial. The biggest reason people like STR is that you get more VIT than STR on accessories, making STR more "valuable," point for point. But, if you want maxed VIT, you'll need to put all your points into VIT.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

STR is just as valid as VIT for both PLD and WAR.

All points into STR = more enmity generation and more DPS as OT
All points into VIT = more HP

If you find at endgame that you can't keep aggro, more STR is definitely beneficial. If you find at endgame you can't stay alive, more VIT is definitely beneficial. The biggest reason people like STR is that you get more VIT than STR on accessories, making STR more "valuable," point for point. But, if you want maxed VIT, you'll need to put all your points into VIT.

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Just be happy that you aren't using Paladin. They don't get Shield Oath till level 40.

Use Defiance. Pop CD's.

Also....have you used any of your Bonus Points? Should put them all into VIT while you are leveling.

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You are completely right, but just going to put this up here for emphasis. While leveling you don't generally have the option of over gearing for said content, so the extra HP buffer is always a good idea.

I only asked OP about their Bonus points, because looking at their Profile it doesn't look they have used any at all.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

You are completely right, but just going to put this up here for emphasis. While leveling you don't generally have the option of over gearing for said content, so the extra HP buffer is always a good idea.

I only asked OP about their Bonus points, because looking at their Profile it doesn't look they have used any at all.

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Ah, my apologies - I misunderstood what you meant by "while leveling." In general, if you're new to tanking, I agree that VIT is a great way to go. But, that said, in the early dungeons, I find that my trouble is keeping aggro more than keeping alive. I went full VIT on my first tank class (GLA/PLD) and had trouble keeping things aggroed until level 40. If I had focused on STR, I might have had less trouble with that. On WAR, I put everything into STR while leveling and things went much better, but I was also much more experienced in tanking at that point, so it's hardly a valid experiment.

I see and I learned what I did wrong. I use my team gameplay and try to bring it with others which doesn't mesh well. How ever I did this run as a MAR with my friends and somehow clean play clear time about 30 mins no wipes but smiles. Now back to my high experience players are tunnle vision comment. For some odd reason players at my skill lvl finish this dumgeon in average 30mins but the moment I'm on team with an advance player wipes happens chemistry is gone everyone is uneasy. I have my perks and issues cleaning them up as I play. But I don't think having a lvl 50 mindset works in a lvl 30 dungeon. Ijs saying that from previous MMOs and other activties that require team work.

they were probs just bad level 50 players,, in my experience bray is no different to newbs or 50's, it runs the same way because of the class limitations.

you cant pull to much because things hit hard, healer has very limited mp in there even more so as whm, dps have access to good skills for the range and so you shouldn't have issues with things dying.

as for mobs being slept, its one dungeon that actually benefits from it, if its available to the group, def not needed but it can make the run smoother, in regards to the healer doing it,, well it quite simply makes there job easier. one less mob hitting you and it can save your life at times.

as stated above if your not using all your skills then you are being a "lazy tank", not that being a mrd is being lazy since its quite possible to run into tanks who do not have there jobs unlocked. myself included when I first got there I was level 34 gla no pld available.. I also didn't know about pld at the time cus I was new to the game.

its def the dungeon that teaches the tank to tank with actual boss mechanics that need to be dealt with, but also like you said the grp has to pay attention too.


the "lazy tank" moniker that I know off would be due to the tank not doing whats considered their job to do, that is not always holding the agro, using cooldowns and positioning, prepping / dealing with certain mechanics, being well geared and decisive knowing where to push sections when to hold back and other things aswell. holding agro and getting hit is only one part of a tanks job.

No offense to the other comments but you made the most sense. Like I said I had my issues and faults and clearing them up. The lazy tanking comment was made because the healer at the time didn't like me. I agree bray was the first real challenge as a tank and learning warrior. Also taught me to be versatile when playing with other people. Not everyone function the same way or do the same style of play. It's ok overdapt over come. Only time Bray becomes complicate when I get that lvl 50 tunnel vision player who has these lvl 50 schematics trying to perform these advance plays with players who know still grasping the game and mobs that's still straight forward as far as tactic goes. Bray goes from being a simple 30 min run to an 45 to 50 mins due to lack of moral, heavy tension, and it's always a healer performing these high lvl plays haha. But in my mmo life I know tanks are usually the a holes so I do my best to play humble and enjoy the game for what it is.

Excuse my bad grammar I should proof read before I send haha.

I went full str as mrd now going in as war. I never had aggro issues until I'm up against a high stat ninja haha that was issues. I figure that would be my off tank have fun class and lvl up my paladin full vit for FC.

You have so many great Warriors giving you advice and here you are talking about personal play style. You CAN'T have a personal play style while you are STILL learning the job. Go learn from video guides etc. After you get to 50, THEN you can start figuring out your play style. But never go into lvl50 dg as a MRD, people would curse you for doing it. People call Warrior a lazy tank when they don't use miam combo and use def cd. Being a Warrior is not only about keeping aggro. It may when you are leveling up but after 50. If you only use Butchers Block combo then you are a lazy warrior, not bringing out Warriors full potential. I noticed that you are going full str, but i recommend you to be full vit until you get lvl 50. You can go into str after you outgear a content and learnt the basic of tanking as a warrior.