Pure-blood Garleans and aether

We know that pure blood Garleans can't use magic, but to take it a step further are they able to use aether at all?

Magic is a manipulation of aether after all. Additionally, many (or all) class/jobs all use aether in one way or another, but they call it by different names where they're from. Ala Mhighan Monks call it "chackra" Doman NINs call it "chi" etc.

In otherwords, people use this energy (aether) to augment their abilities. So to me, it would make sense that they also can't utilize aether

It could just be plot, but I don't see Garleans using aetherytes (which requires you to use aether) within their camps. Especially when Nero and co were observing us kill primals. One instance (after beating Titan) we see Lahabrea and Yshtola teleport while Nero walked away

I believe the Garleans developed Magitek because they cannot personally use aether but they developed machines to do what they could not. All the purebred Garleans we fight wear heavy Magitek armor and Magitek weaponry, so it's possible that they would be fairly pathetic without.

I'd imagine that they'd have technology to tap into the aetherytes if not currently, eventually...

Their armor may work in a way like how BLM use magic BLM draw the aether from around them The Black Wolf is a good example on this I think.

Well they could use aether for all we know. we know too little about them to give fully credible information save for the part where they can't use magic. Both gaius and nael were able to do short range teleportation, whether or not this was technology or something they could do isn't confirmed.

My theory is that they can replicate things like aetherites using magitek but How does magitek even work? Maybe the machines they develop allow them to manipulate aether through those.

This is just a wild guess but perhaps their third eyes allows them to see aether in the atmosphere so they can develop technology to control it. But pretty much anything like that is just wild speculation, surprised Cid hasn't told us more about his people.

In the lore panel at last year's American Fanfest, they outright state that true blood Garleans are genetically incapable of manipulating Aether. That's why they developed Magitek in the first place.

You won't run into a Garlean mage in a traditional sense. They almost certainly have developed technology to mimic most forms of magic though.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

In the lore panel at last year's American Fanfest, they outright state that true blood Garleans are genetically incapable of manipulating Aether. That's why they developed Magitek in the first place.

You won't run into a Garlean mage in a traditional sense. They almost certainly have developed technology to mimic most forms of magic though.

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If i remember correctly they said they can't use magic, idk if they meant aether entirely.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

If i remember correctly they said they can't use magic, idk if they meant aether entirely.

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I double checked the video and its a bit vague but the question asked was can they manipulate aether and he says no.

Well, they have aether, because they're alive; "aether" is just the name the residents of Hydaelyn give to The Imperceptible Life Force Of The Universe and also The Stuff Of Souls, so any Garlean at least has it.

They can't do much with it, though; the lore panel was clear on this. They can't manipulate aether, so presumably they can't "naturally" use aetherytes and whatnot. They'd need a technological solution for the same thing.

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Originally Posted by StarDrake

Well, they have aether, because they're alive; "aether" is just the name the residents of Hydaelyn give to The Imperceptible Life Force Of The Universe and also The Stuff Of Souls, so any Garlean at least has it.

They can't do much with it, though; the lore panel was clear on this. They can't manipulate aether, so presumably they can't "naturally" use aetherytes and whatnot. They'd need a technological solution for the same thing.

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Generally, this seems like a disadvantage; however, I wonder if there aren't advantages to being unable to directly access aether by themselves; it may go both ways. Perhaps, it keeps them from being affected by high concentrations of aether, such as aetheric corruption or primal tempering?

Gaius didn't seem all that concerned about the primals, when he was trying to provoke them to absorb into Ultima Weapon. Nael on the other hand, wasn't a pureblood Garlean.

Garleans do seem to be vunerable to tempering which is why they have such an interest in the echo.

However, its often the case that necessity has created a scenario where their weakness is turned into a strength. Being unable to use Aether and driven them to develop Magitek which as given them a substantial edge.

The thing I'm most curious about is the third eye and what its properties are and if it has any connection to their inability to use aether.

In many places a 3rd eye is associated with seeing the immaterial, so maybe they can sense aether its just that there isn't anything they could do about pre-magitek. But this is all just speculation

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Garleans do seem to be vunerable to tempering which is why they have such an interest in the echo.

However, its often the case that necessity has created a scenario where their weakness is turned into a strength. Being unable to use Aether and driven them to develop Magitek which as given them a substantial edge.

The thing I'm most curious about is the third eye and what its properties are and if it has any connection to their inability to use aether.

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Just because they are interested in the Echo doesn't mean that they can be tempered. However, given the extent of their empire and the dependence they have on conscripted forces, they have an interest in contesting the primals that can temper their citizens and 'subjects'.

Also thinking about the Garlean mentality of man over the divine; the very concept of primal-worship goes against the philosophy that they have been imposing on/educating into their citizens. I believe, it is also due to a honest, although often misguided, as seen with Gaius, belief, that they need to 'liberate' people from the threat of and dependency on, the 'gods'. Most Final Fantasy villains and 'bad' organizations these days aren't that morally one sided, at least from my limited experiences with the series.

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Originally Posted by LystAP

Generally, this seems like a disadvantage; however, I wonder if there aren't advantages to being unable to directly access aether by themselves; it may go both ways. Perhaps, it keeps them from being affected by high concentrations of aether, such as aetheric corruption or primal tempering?

Gaius didn't seem all that concerned about the primals, when he was trying to provoke them to absorb into Ultima Weapon. Nael on the other hand, wasn't a pureblood Garlean.

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I'm pretty sure nael was a pure blood, only reason people think otherwise is he shares the same animations with an elezen and garlean centurions are about as tall as elezen so we can assume that garleans can be quite tall.

The whole man over deity philosophy makes sense from their perspective, since they cannot use magic they had to develop something to compete with the other races, essentially they 'earned' their right to dominion since they didn't rely on gods giving them power. As for if they had any kinds of deities at any stage won't be found out for a while yet if it all.

I only say that Garleans can be tempered because it is never mentioned that they cant be and when discussing the Galreans interest in the echo in the main scenario it is because they want the immunity from tempering that it provides. Frankly the Primals would be a far smaller threat to the Garleans if their troops were immune to tempering. In many cases it would defang the most dangerous aspect of fighting primals. In most cases, when fighting primals victory is won through simply attacking with more numbers than can be tempered at once. That's how the Company of Heroes fought apparently.

Considering the threat the Garleans see the Primals as it suggest they are as much a problem to fight for the Garleans as they are for everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Frankly the Primals would be a far smaller threat to the Garleans if their troops were immune to tempering.

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Well, bear in mind, too, that the vast, vast bulk of the Garlean forces are not purebred Garleans (with the third eye and whatever else sets purebreds apart), but rather conscripts from lands conquered by the Garleans. Even if purebreds are immune to tempering, a purebred commander is going to be in a bit of a tight spot when 95% of his forces suddenly turn into fanatical worshipers on the enemy's side.

The Primals would still be a considerable threat, even if the purebred Garleans themselves can't be directly converted. In the Garleans' minds, leaving the Primals alone means that eventually the entire world will be under their thrall except for them - and the Primals' logical next move would be to take out those few not under their thrall...

The purebred Garleans wish to wipe out the Beast Tribes (and anyone else who might be interested in summoning a Primal) as a precaution to protect themselves. That this also serves to protect non-purebreds from being enslaved they see as a happy side effect - and also as justification to conquer them for their own good.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

I'm pretty sure nael was a pure blood, only reason people think otherwise is he shares the same animations with an elezen and garlean centurions are about as tall as elezen so we can assume that garleans can be quite tall.

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The reason people think otherwise is because he claimed to be of Allagan blood in 1.0, even though his farther (now dead - assumed also part Allagan) was a founding figure of the empire. I suspect this may be brought back up in the expansion when/if it's answered why both forces of Garlemald and Allag share magitek technology.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I only say that Garleans can be tempered because it is never mentioned that they cant be and when discussing the Galreans interest in the echo in the main scenario it is because they want the immunity from tempering that it provides.

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It's still possible that the Garleans are immune, but remember, the bulk of their armies are made up of conquered nations, not Garleans themselves. So, still, having the power to repel tempering in their war against Eikons would obviously be of great benefit.

EDIT: Razor beat me!

Wasn't Nael tempered by Bahamut? So wouldn't that mean that Garleans are NOT immune to it? I see no reason why they would be, honestly.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Garleans do seem to be vunerable to tempering which is why they have such an interest in the echo.

However, its often the case that necessity has created a scenario where their weakness is turned into a strength. Being unable to use Aether and driven them to develop Magitek which as given them a substantial edge.

The thing I'm most curious about is the third eye and what its properties are and if it has any connection to their inability to use aether.

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I'm beginning to wonder if the Garleans might actually be the product of yet more Allagan genetic engineering. The 'pureblood' Garleans trace their ancestry to the Allagan Empire yet the Allagans did not have the third eye. Unei, Doga and Xande all had the regular Eorzean two eyes. The chances are that third eye has an engineered purpose of some kind and so far we've not seen what it actually does (beyond looking freaky on their forehead). I wouldn't be surprised if it somehow allowed them to survive the Earthquake that otherwise wiped out the entire empire... It's also possible that their inability to use aether was a safeguard of some kind.

Even if the bulk of their forces aren't pure breed Garleans, they would have enough to have a special unit for anti primal duties. After all, its only the primal itself that needs to be beaten by people immune to the Tempering. The Tempering is the hardest obstacle they would face in taking one down.

I'd say there would be enough Pure blood Garleans out there to have a well equipped battalion that could curb stop the likes of Titan, Ifrit and Garuda. If we can counter their powers with corrupt crystals, the Garleans certainly would be able to.

I'd need to check again but I'm pretty sure that there is a cutscene where Alphinaud implies their interest in the echo is because they desire an immunity to tempering.

The reason I don't consider Nael to be a good example is that from the cutscene in T9 it sounds like there wasn't much of Nael left when Bahamut pulled him back and rebuilt him, which is why he is now a her. Still, there really isn't anything in game that suggests the Garleans are immune to tempering that I have seen.

Edit: Having just watched Ethys Asher's 1.x Retrospective, the footage from 1.x does seem to indicate that Nael was tempered prior to his death.

Nael van Darnus was tempered by Bahamut as soon as he turned the Lunar Transmitter on. It's never said how the Garleans defeated the Primals in Othard but it's highly likely they did just what the Company of Heroes did and that's throw bodies at the beasts. After all the Garleans Empire cares nothing about their average soldier, like others said they're 99% brainwashed citizens. As for the Garlean's third eye, it's never actually said what it's for or if it's even a usable thing. It could just be like our appendix, it was once a useful organ and now it's just a byproduct of evolution i.e. the eye is merely just there now. If the Garleans were created by the Allagans a third eye could have indeed been an organ developed for aether use, but due to so many years since production it could have simply fallen into a useless state due to natural and or biological reasons.

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

Nael van Darnus was tempered by Bahamut as soon as he turned the Lunar Transmitter on. It's never said how the Garleans defeated the Primals in Othard but it's highly likely they did just what the Company of Heroes did and that's throw bodies at the beasts. After all the Garleans Empire cares nothing about their average soldier, like others said they're 99% brainwashed citizens.

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Depending on your notion of 'brainwashed', Rhitahtyn seems generally loyal to the Garlean cause, although he is particularly loyal to Gaius. Nero also isn't the complete douche that the main storyline painted him to be, if you do the CT quests. Saying that the Garlean citizenry are 99% brainwashed is like saying 99% of certain developed countries are 'brainwashed' by their ideology.

Most of the legionnaires in Eorzea are conscripts from freshly conquered regions and so far, all that we have seen of the Empire is two renegade legions, first by Nael (the crazy moon guy) and Gaius (the Darwinist), it could be within reason that other legions aren't as overtly genocidal or violent, perhaps even more diplomatic; however, they would still have to deal with the primals as well.

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Originally Posted by LystAP

Depending on your notion of 'brainwashed', Rhitahtyn seems generally loyal to the Garlean cause, although he is particularly loyal to Gaius. Nero also isn't the complete douche that the main storyline painted him to be, if you do the CT quests. Saying that the Garlean citizenry are 99% brainwashed is like saying 99% of certain developed countries are 'brainwashed' by their ideology.

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I never said the Garlean citizens were brainwashed, I'm talking about the grunt soldiers who were Ala Mhigans (citizens) who were brainwashed and sent to fight their fellow Eorzeans. The entire VII Legion was made entirely of Ala Mhigans.

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

I never said the Garlean citizens were brainwashed, I'm talking about the grunt soldiers who were Ala Mhigans (citizens) who were brainwashed and sent to fight their fellow Eorzeans. The entire VII Legion was made entirely of Ala Mhigans.

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I doubt brainwashing is involved for the soldiers either. Conscripting the conquered isn't just a fantasy trope, it happened in real life, too. Real-life brainwashing is rarely effective, and when it does work, it takes a lot of time and effort - FAR too much to apply to grunt soldiers. No, conscripts are kept in line not through brainwashing, but by the simple fact that their homelands aren't theirs anymore. It's fight as a soldier and live, or don't and die. This is especially true if they have family - fight and live, or don't and die AND die knowing that things are probably going to go very poorly for your family.

Conscription is basically slavery, and you don't need to brainwash someone to keep them as a slave. It is very unlikely that the conscripts in the Garlean army feel much loyalty to the Garlean empire. They fight because they feel like they have no other choice.

The part about brainwashing is a little misunderstood, they do brainwash the youth into hating primals and beastmen, but this isn't brainwashing as making them into 'mindless' slaves but just forcing garlean ideals on the youth of conscripted countries, after all Ala mhigo has a whole generation born within the time after it's fall so naturally many ala mhigan youths are loyal to the empire. Not to mention it was confirmed they keep some of the cultures alive for the possibility of learning new things. They just forbid the worship of gods of any kind.

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

The reason people think otherwise is because he claimed to be of Allagan blood in 1.0, even though his farther (now dead - assumed also part Allagan) was a founding figure of the empire. I suspect this may be brought back up in the expansion when/if it's answered why both forces of Garlemald and Allag share magitek technology.

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On that note from some dialogue a soldier reports to gaius that Rhitahtyn Sas Arvina was defeated, gaius questioned why his men abandoned him (Rhitahtyn sent them away) and if it was due to his birth. This suggests that pure bloods discriminate against other races and I'd imagine a founding figure would of also been a pure blood. The allagan decent could date so far that it could barely be considered a different heritage from the others as most spoken races could be decent from them.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

This suggests that pure bloods discriminate against other races and I'd imagine a founding figure would of also been a pure blood. The allagan decent could date so far that it could barely be considered a different heritage from the others as most spoken races could be decent from them.

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If possessing Allagan blood was shameful to Garleans in any way, I don't imagime they'd boast it. I think, if anything, being of Allagan decent would be a point of pride. The Allagan Empire ruled nearly the entire planet in it's hay-day - an achivement that would likely interest Garlemald - and invented magitek, which Garleans use to this day to make up for their aetherial affinity (or lack thereof).

BTW, you're spot on about the brainwashing business.

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

BTW, you're spot on about the brainwashing business.

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Actually he's probably referencing the kids in Future's Perfect.

Although I suppose it depends on if you consider that brainwashing or not.

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Originally Posted by Naria

Actually he's probably referencing the kids in Future's Perfect.

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He is.

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Originally Posted by Naria

Although I suppose it depends on if you consider that brainwashing or not.

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No, not in a strict sense, and neither does he -

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

but this isn't brainwashing as making them into 'mindless' slaves but just forcing garlean ideals on the youth of conscripted countries

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I guess he it's more like cultural "re-education" with a mix of propaganda that the Garleans used on the younger citizens on conquered nations

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Originally Posted by LystAP

Depending on your notion of 'brainwashed', Rhitahtyn seems generally loyal to the Garlean cause, although he is particularly loyal to Gaius. Nero also isn't the complete douche that the main storyline painted him to be, if you do the CT quests. Saying that the Garlean citizenry are 99% brainwashed is like saying 99% of certain developed countries are 'brainwashed' by their ideology.

Most of the legionnaires in Eorzea are conscripts from freshly conquered regions and so far, all that we have seen of the Empire is two renegade legions, first by Nael (the crazy moon guy) and Gaius (the Darwinist), it could be within reason that other legions aren't as overtly genocidal or violent, perhaps even more diplomatic; however, they would still have to deal with the primals as well.

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As a side note: After doing the CT quests, I think Nero is even more a douche then I did from the main scenario lol

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Originally Posted by RickiFake02

As a side note: After doing the CT quests, I think Nero is even more a douche then I did from the main scenario lol

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The clones seem to think there's more to him than even Nero would believe, although it is true up until the World of Darkness, he's still pretty much a douche. We don't get to see what happens to him afterwards, but it is interesting to see how he was essentially saturated with dark-aether and recovered pretty quickly after Doga and Uriel sealed away the Cloud.

Maybe their lack of aether manipulation makes them easier to recover from corruption/harder to fully temper as they cannot hold aether it will just flow like a river.