Is it too much to ask for minimal mistakes in farm runs?

So, I know I'm gonna get a lot of controversy talk and people hating on me, calling me an elitist, etc etc etc, but I need to vent about this and I think it's an interesting topic.

So I've been farming mounts for a while, I have 4 of them and needing Ramuh and Ifrit. Started with Ramuh today since it's easier for me and made a PF. "Mount farm, know the fight backwards, minimal mistakes" Not offending anybody, not asking for "no noobs", etc etc, just asking for people to know the fight and to be experienced. It is a farm after all.

1st party takes a long time to start, always saying hello to people coming, all good. We ask if tanks have macros and I mark myself as number 1 priority, assuming people would mark themselves and not be breastfed. It is a farm after all.

We wipe, no problem, people weren't marked and they got confused, I guess. So I marked them. We wipe again for lack of DPS. On a farm run. One person drops = almost everyone drops. I start PF again.

2nd party fails to save me from seduction twice in 1 run and we wipe from lack of DPS. Again. Mind you that I keep poisons as SCH on 2 adds at all times.

3rd party. Another wipe. Guess what? Lack of DPS again. Mind you, all PFs had i105 requirement.

4th party doesn't even start, we enter Ramuh and we see a bonus, so I ask who the bonus is and if they know the fight like the PF said. Nobody says anything so I snap and say "I don't care who the bonus is, but if you don't speak right now and we clear Ramuh and I see your achievement, you're out. I'm not here to hand out free clears at the risk of wasting mine and everyone else's time". People snapped at me saying I rage a lot (I had said some angry remarks in the past runs) and I said: If you don't like my attitude, you can leave, I'm here to farm Ramuh, not to wipe with every single party.

Now, I know you're gonna say I could've been more reasonable and I could've raged less, I don't care. I wanted a good 10-15 ramuh clears and I got 7 wipes. Seriously people: Do not join farm runs if you're not experienced in it.

Coming into a farm run people should know they have to know the fight well enough to finish quickly and cleanly each time. A farm implies doing it a bunch of times so you want to finish a run as quick as possible. The problem is you get a lot of yolo whatever types who just think everyone joining will be experienced and carry them so the get a free clear and maybe a mount. It's very difficult to narrow people down unless they admit it because some people who have done it before are bad because they are just bad. You could just say that if you see somebody is new when you get in then you will abandon or leave though that causes more problems for yourself anyway.

Aside from the extremely snarky comment about kicking whoever pops the achievement (Y'all may have done well, he or she might have been a good player, maybe playing on an alt), the group you wanted to start was in PF... that means you set the rules. I'd say you have every reason to be ticked off at these people. I mean what else will you do? Put in the description "No noobs, no fools, no idiots, no wipes"? If you say you want experienced players to farm something, then it should go without saying that anybody causing wipes for stupid mistakes shouldn't be in this group. You made a personal group and invited them onto your own territory and they made a joke out of it because they wanted pHree L00tS.

If this had been DF or you going into someone else's party and pitching a fit about gameplay, then I'd probably say you're being ridiculous, especially if you are rude on top of it all. That being said, when you go through the time to make your own party with specific rules... those rules are yours and the situation changes completely, no exceptions. You have every reason to be ticked off in that specific situation where people come in and try to BS that they meet your standards. You set the bar, and people came in riding on other people's shoulders claiming they could reach it. I'd be ticked off too.

Part-and-parcel in PF. No sense in getting worked up about it . When I really want to farm something, I do not use PF. I've been lucky enough to build a network of good friends and farming linkshells to facilitate that. The problem with PF is that people do things differently. Most wipes are caused by a lack of coordination, not bad players. In farms, people have egos. They think the way they do everything is hot shit. There's little to no compromise. So, the result is perfectly good players calling each other bad. It's a giant waste of time.

I always find it funny that the person who makes the PF usually is the one who dies first.

Just saying.

(Usually PF quote is I115 and is the one saying no mistakes, or be kicked! lol)

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Originally Posted by Mirakumi

I always find it funny that the person who makes the PF usually is the one who dies first.

Just saying.

(Usually PF quote is I115 and is the one saying no mistakes, or be kicked! lol)

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It's funny the people who need a PF in the first place are usually bad or anti-social. Since you seem to know so much about what happens in them...

Oh wait confirmation bias. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by Staris

It's funny the people who need a PF in the first place are usually bad or anti-social.

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xD What? Honestly, what drove you to this conclusion? Are people expected to have mount farm statics in your mind? Because that's just ridiculous. It's getting to the point that I can't tell who I added on my friend's list from Mount Farms, /shout sillyness, random dungeons, FATE farming or linkshell chats, so I'm not gonna go around poking all my friends /tell "yo, wanna run ramuh? no noobs no bonus plz, thx, 1 fail = 1 kick, no pressure"

Nothing to do with elitism. I know people love to use that word and throw it at each other every minute of the day.

However when creating a pf and labeling as farm, you make the rules and people are bound by your rules. If they don't like it then they shouldn't join. I think you were in fact patient, I would have disbanded that group after the first wipe. Farm means max dps, if the dps can't pull that go ahead and replace them.

On my server we have a lot of these wannabe people, creating pf's saying no baddies allowed etc. and yet I have to holy 150 times during shiva's golem phase because the ilvl 120+ can't make it in time. SE made it easy with putting a 25 - 75% echo on everything, giving out gear like it's water and now everybody thinks they are "elitists" or even good at playing the game. I rather use the duty finder lol.

Good luck with your ponies, hope you can create some farm groups without the stress.

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Originally Posted by LunaFaye

Good luck with your ponies, hope you can create some farm groups without the stress.

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Hnnnnggg, only 2 ponies left, and I've repressed memories of my Titan runs. Levi wasn't a breeze either.

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Originally Posted by Lyzern

Are people expected to have mount farm statics in your mind?

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Even farm statics have derp moments/off days, too. I have what's pretty much a static for T9 farming composed of people who are all capable of one-shotting T9 with ease-- we've done it multiple times before. But we also have off days and occasional derps because we're all human. When it does happen, we just laugh and tease the person who wrecked us, because we've all been that person at one point or another.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

Even farm statics have derp moments/off days, too. I have what's pretty much a static for T9 farming composed of people who are all capable of one-shotting T9 with ease-- we've done it multiple times before. But we also have off days and occasional derps because we're all human. When it does happen, we just laugh and tease the person who wrecked us, because we've all been that person at one point or another.

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that works with statics. Running 4 different pf parties with different people doesn't count as "occasional" derp, nor does the "we've all been that person" rule apply. Unless we count 5-6 dps's (depending on group setup) as that one person that had a brain fart in that moment. If one dps can't pull the numbers the others have to pick up the slack but in this case they all failed lol.

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Originally Posted by Staris

It's funny the people who need a PF in the first place are usually bad or anti-social. Since you seem to know so much about what happens in them...

Oh wait confirmation bias. Sorry.

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That's likely true more often than not. On Excalibur there's often nothing but farming PF's or FATE parties (and people selling Coil carries.) And this is a Legacy server with a lot of trolls.

The thing is the game's design really isn't based on PUG'ing your way through the game (despite that, that's how I've played it to date.) In theory you should be able to just ask your FC "Hey who wants to farm X with me" and get more than enough people to volunteer. In practice, people will see it as a free carry and only do it on the job/class that needs the experience or clear for Relic weapon or whatnot. No point in farming something you don't need right? Quid pro quo. Who wants to waste their time unless they get to waste your time at a later date.

I would say your first problem is expecting perfection. Everyone that plays this game is human and therefore not perfect. Peyton Manning does not complete 100% of his passes, Lebron James does not make 100% of his shots. In a video game, why would you expect people to never make a mistake?

IMO, when your putting 8 randoms in a group together, no matter how skilled, it may take some wipes for the team to gel. Once it gels, then you can get repeated kills. In a perfect world, yeah, a farm group in PF should be able to kill it on the first try. This is reality. Wipes will happen, people need to accept that. Rage quitting after one or two tries is the biggest problem with group stuff in this game.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

I would say your first problem is expecting perfection. Everyone that plays this game is human and therefore not perfect. Peyton Manning does not complete 100% of his passes, Lebron James does not make 100% of his shots. In a video game, why would you expect people to never make a mistake?

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This is exactly the point I was trying to make. Even skilled players who have killed something dozens of times can still mess up and cause a wipe. Ideally, you want to minimize wipes, but they can still happen because people can make stupid mistakes or get bad RNG or whatever.

The problem comes when people are causing multiple wipes to the same mechanics. That's indicative of them just plain not understanding the mechanics rather than just slipping up.

Had this problem before with Shiva EX when trying to farm the weapons. Got really aggravating fast because of noobs who didn't know how to play their classes right or dodge, so we were either wiping due to not enough DPS to burn down her adds DESPITE i120+ players or to her various moves because the healers couldn't keep up the tank (due to the tank sucking or the healers sucking). There's a reason why a stereotype has formed where high geared players = noobs.

Not really but I tend to experience the opposite, it's normally the one who makes the party finder with "NO NOOBS!!! WILL KICK IF MISTAKES ARE MADE" that end up causing the most wipes >.>.

Elitist no, you expect a clear, hell minimal mistakes is fair actually, hell everyone makes mistakes, even the smallest from time to time. I still die on super bomb during titan ex from time to time.

I joined a T5 farm party over the weekend because I needed one more clear for the 10 time achievement. I really don't know why everyone else was farming it. The glamours? Five straight times, several "sneak-in sol bonuses" and a couple of kicks and the party never once made it past fireball/conflags. A FARM party... yeesh.

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Originally Posted by Mercutial

I joined a T5 farm party over the weekend because I needed one more clear for the 10 time achievement. I really don't know why everyone else was farming it. The glamours? Five straight times, several "sneak-in sol bonuses" and a couple of kicks and the party never once made it past fireball/conflags. A FARM party... yeesh.

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That sounds very sad, considering even your usual DF party will at least get to Divebombs to make a wipe-fest :)

Ramuh is a thing alright.

But actually I know your pain, OP. Especially on Ramuh. Tanks that are super inconsistent about calling for orbs to be cleared and then wonder why we haven't cleared them; players tunnel-visioning and missing their chaos or that they need to break chaos; and yeah - DPS that mysteriously just can't clear the DPS check.

I swear I have a higher success rate on parties clearing T10's DPS check than I do Ramuh's. By a significant margin.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

Tanks that are super inconsistent about calling for orbs to be cleared and then wonder why we haven't cleared them

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Suppose that thinking for yourself takes too much effort? Oh, I forgot for a moment that this games targets World of Warcraft players. Nevermind.

Because making 6 other ppl look out for tanks debuffs is easier and more logical than 1 person just pressing a macro when going for orbs.
Why do you use wow player as an insult?

Not a farm situation but still considered a problem like this was trying to clear T12 yesterday in on very last part of add phase so pretty much the phase after that is just eating damage so it's a clear.

So I put clear party in party finder filled very fast I see that it will be a 0 chest run was cool with it cause I need want the clear exp more than gear.

Only got to add phase like 2-3 times maxed then some one said the other tank is usually a white mage......

So other problem is people joining stuff they have cleared before on a job role they have no clear exp on.

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Originally Posted by Andriel

Suppose that thinking for yourself takes too much effort? Oh, I forgot for a moment that this games targets World of Warcraft players. Nevermind.

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Oh get off your high horse

I can't even trust players not clearly marked 1 and 2 to be aware enough to go clear chaos when they're needed to, nevermind mentally following the pattern for orbs. Then you get tanks who aren't communicating overcharges with each other (nevermind everyone else) or the chaos from the moment someone does end up grabbing too late and one of the tanks is dead. And then tanks that specifically yell at someone for either not clearing orbs or clearing them on the wrong time, say, "Hey wait for us to tell you"... and then don't say anything and wonder why nothing was cleaned up.

It's almost like clear consistent communication might actually help a fight get cleared or something. I mean theoretically we don't need a marked priority either, but, y'know, it helps.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

It's almost like clear consistent communication might actually help a fight get cleared or something.

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I'm uh.... I'm stealing this for my sig. kthxbaiii

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Originally Posted by Lyzern

xD Are people expected to have mount farm statics in your mind? Because that's just ridiculous. It's getting to the point that I can't tell who I added on my friend's list from Mount Farms, /shout sillyness, random dungeons, FATE farming or linkshell chats, so I'm not gonna go around poking all my friends /tell "yo, wanna run ramuh? no noobs no bonus plz, thx, 1 fail = 1 kick, no pressure"

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You're attitude never ceases to amaze me, Lyzern, but I have to agree with you on this case. The PF said farm, plz know fight, so ppl jumping in on that should expect as such. If the bonus pops up, that person does not know the fight enough to farm, whether they have gotten to Ramuh's last phase and shiteth hit said faneth(enter more excuses here), so they shouldn't of joined, there are lots of learning parties/clear parties they could join. On another note, random pug PFs and DFs are not the farm solution, build an FC or LS or you will always have this headache. I know the feeling when you mentioned the bonus and no one spoke up, super brutal and frustrating I agree, but dude, you need to learn some chill ;).

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

You're attitude never ceases to amaze me, Lyzern, but I have to agree with you on this case. The PF said farm, plz know fight, so ppl jumping in on that should expect as such. If the bonus pops up, that person does not know the fight enough to farm, whether they have gotten to Ramuh's last phase and shiteth hit said faneth(enter more excuses here), so they shouldn't of joined, there are lots of learning parties/clear parties they could join. On another note, random pug PFs and DFs are not the farm solution, build an FC or LS or you will always have this headache. I know the feeling when you mentioned the bonus and no one spoke up, super brutal and frustrating I agree, but dude, you need to learn some chill ;).

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I'm not known for having a good attitude to things I strongly disagree with and I'm very vocal about it.

Sucks.

But anyway, 5 of the ponies I currently have (Yes, I have won Markab as of this post!) were all done in PF. That said, I've followed the advice of people who say "build a linkshell or a group of friends" and I've started contacting some friends and adding exceptional players in my Friend's List and it's been helpful.

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Originally Posted by Spoekes

Because making 6 other ppl look out for tanks debuffs is easier and more logical than 1 person just pressing a macro when going for orbs.

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Especially when those six other players are busy DPSing/healing, freeing people from Chaos/getting to the marked spot if they have Chaos, burning down adds, freeing people from tethers, and making sure they aren't overlapping thunderstorms on top of each other while doing so. In contrast, all tanks need to worry about is communicating when to pick up orbs and when to swap. It's a lot easier for them to keep track of when they need orbs and just press a button than it is to expect the other players to be trying to watch the party list on top of all of those other things at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Lyzern

That said, I've followed the advice of people who say "build a linkshell or a group of friends" and I've started contacting some friends and adding exceptional players in my Friend's List and it's been helpful.

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You're set then, and I hope that helps with the stress free farming, I know it has helped me and my Ka-Tet.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

Especially when those six other players are busy DPSing/healing, freeing people from Chaos/getting to the marked spot if they have Chaos, burning down adds, freeing people from tethers, and making sure they aren't overlapping thunderstorms on top of each other while doing so. In contrast, all tanks need to worry about is communicating when to pick up orbs and when to swap. It's a lot easier for them to keep track of when they need orbs and just press a button than it is to expect the other players to be trying to watch the party list on top of all of those other things at the same time.

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I'm lucky I guess to have an FC(granted it took work) that I can log in and there will be 7 other ppl that will farm 3-5 fights back2back, no stress, no probs, but c'mon, Ramuh is solo tankable. I personally don't say anything bc my party takes a quick look, I have 3 stacks and there's 4 balls lying around, they'll divvy up the 1 stacks and leave 1 ball there for when I need it. Granted I haven't DF'd a trial in a LONG time, but in defense of meatshields everywhere, we are kinda trying to stay alive so you stay alive.

"Those Balls are Mine! Don't Touch Them!!" -Common Ramuh Party chat

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Originally Posted by Lyzern

I'm uh.... I'm stealing this for my sig. kthxbaiii

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Glad to be of service~

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

I'm lucky I guess to have an FC(granted it took work) that I can log in and there will be 7 other ppl that will farm 3-5 fights back2back, no stress, no probs, but c'mon, Ramuh is solo tankable. I personally don't say anything bc my party takes a quick look, I have 3 stacks and there's 4 balls lying around, they'll divvy up the 1 stacks and leave 1 ball there for when I need it. Granted I haven't DF'd a trial in a LONG time, but in defense of meatshields everywhere, we are kinda trying to stay alive so you stay alive.

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It's solo-tankable, yes, but I have yet to encounter a PF farm group that can actually successfully single-tank it. Most groups I've run with prefer to have two tanks just because Ramuh is a fight where there's a high probability of something going wrong. If one tank dies in a two-tank run, the other one takes over. If one tank dies in a solo-tank run... well, let's just say that I've had to tank Ramuh before as a DRG.