Gamepads, new actions coming in heavensward, not enough room for all of them.

For those of you who use gamepads as your primary input device. I'm sure you realize that there's just barely enough room in the controller hot bars to set up all of your actions. As a Scholar I have to separate all of my healing and damaging spells onto 2 different hot bar sets. And alternate between them when dpsing or healing. I have absolutely no more space in both sets to accommodate any more spells. When patch 3.0 hits I'll have to put any other spells into a new set and dance between them depending on the situation.

Ideally you want all of your important actions in a set where you have immediate access to, switching between sets to use a crucial action isn't ideal. In the future more and more actions will be added and eventually I think a controller just wont be viable anymore.

How are we suppose to play efficiently with a gamepad once there are too many actions to fit into your controller UI?

I was worried about this at first until I saw this article: http://massivelyop.net/2015/03/07/pa...naoki-yoshida/

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All the jobs and classes will be getting new abilities along with new options for cross hotbar users to quickly toggle between pages to account for the new tricks.

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Keyboard and mouse has the same issue, it's already hard enough to fit everything you need to be conveniently accessible, unless you buy a set designed for gaming.

I still have around 4-6 slots for future skills on DRG and NIN, and more than that available for Bard, on my L2+R2 hold bar. I guess Scholar has way more to handle, though.

There's a macro command: /crosshotbar change "1-8" that helps with that. ^^:

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All the jobs and classes will be getting new abilities along with new options for cross hotbar users to quickly toggle between pages to account for the new tricks.

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I'm so relieved that they took that into consideration. looks like the article didn't give out much info on it, but at least we know its an issue that will be addressed.

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Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

I was worried about this at first until I saw this article: http://massivelyop.net/2015/03/07/pa...naoki-yoshida/

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Doesn't this feature already exist?
I can swap to any given crosshotbar at any time.

You already have the problem and have a solution for it in the game right now. In order to fit everything I need do as a DD I macro my combos. Now, White Mage isn't so easy so tend to focus on healing. Still, macros are your friends.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

You already have the problem and have a solution for it in the game right now. In order to fit everything I need do as a DD I macro my combos. Now, White Mage isn't so easy so tend to focus on healing. Still, macros are your friends.

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Maybe if you are ok with doing subpar dps you can do that.

I put the ones that are rarely used or never used on the 2nd set and have more then enough room still.

As a keybind maniac I wish more things could get keybinds directly without putting them on the hotbars. I have a full bar devoted to markers. Two bars with keybinds for actions I use in combat and one bar with keybinds for actions used regularly (mount, potions, sort inventory/AC, etc.) There's only so many set of keybinds that are reasonable, when you go more than 48 keybinds it becomes a little hard to find a keybind that makes sense.

Just allowing us to keybind markers and macros directly would solve half my problem.

I'd really like a few more hotbars.

Really people are having problems with crossbars? Can't say I have. I mean you need an extra one just make one more crossbar non-shared and you have a ton of extra as well(only my sch and smn use it atm but I assume by lvl60 this will increase to all of them). Be smart about laying stuff out as well not just dump skills wherever.

How do you manage your PvP actions? ^^;

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

How do you manage your PvP actions? ^^;

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I don't do much PvP and when I do I tend to swap out a few skills I have no use of using - BUT one thing I would idealy love is to have abilty to store a different crossbar setup with a gearset. So I could have a PvP focused gearset and crossbar setup and a PvE one.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

I don't do much PvP and when I do I tend to swap out a few skills I have no use of using - BUT one thing I would idealy love is to have abilty to store a different crossbar setup with a gearset. So I could have a PvP focused gearset and crossbar setup and a PvE one.

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I would like to have it as well. ^^;

To all the people talking about keyboards.. I really don't feel the lack of keybinds, you just gotta get a little creative here and there.. I currently have 4 full bars keybound.. and I could actually do another bar or two if needed but feel that 4 bars are enough for direct access, rest are non-combat clickable things..
Also, you CAN keybind macros directly.

Having said that though, I wouldn't mind getting a few extra set of hotbars and getting the option of arranging their orientation (horizontal, vertical) and maybe even splitting them up into chunks or 4, 6, 8, or whatever.. As it stands now I am wasting quite a few slots because I like symmetry



BTW if anybody's interested, this is how I get more than a couple full bars keybound.

1-5, Shift + 1-5, Ctrl + 1-5, Alt + 1-5

Shift + QWER ASDF ZXCV
Alt + QWER ASDF ZXCV
Ctrl + QWERASDFZXCV

But I do feel it for ya folks with a controller.. I don't know how you guys do it..

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Originally Posted by Gillionaire

But I do feel it for ya folks with a controller.. I don't know how you guys do it..

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Easy. We optimized what we need to reduce unnecessary clutter.

This is a vid I made for a FC member showing them how you can have stuff laid out:

http://ruskie.codemages.net/videos/bars.html


The vertical stuff I tend to use for ogcd stuff that I don't always have visible.

It would make some sense to just replace combo buttons as the combo is executed.

I hate switching between hotbars (on controller) it's way too easy to get confused and lose track of what you are doing especially in situations when you need to heal quickly and manage a pet, or with fast jobs like MNK and NIN.

I think I will need to go back to Keyboard/Mouse in 3.0 just to have access to all the skills quickly, sadly I will need to sacrifice mobility to do that :(

I already switch between three bars when I play. Sounds like a personal problem.

For combat, I get by on two hotbars and using the expanded L2+R2 controls so I never have to tap between them. Very little on my WAR set is macro'ed; just Thrill of Battle + Convalescence and Unchained + Berserk in the same slot.

I have inefficiencies, though. Markers 1 and 2 are part of the expanded hotbar; I could easily remove one or both of those. Defiance, my mount, and STR potions are also on the expanded set; easy to move elsewhere.

I would say it's just important to look for those inefficiencies and make decisions once we actually know how important/good the Heavensward abilities are.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

Keyboard and mouse has the same issue, it's already hard enough to fit everything you need to be conveniently accessible, unless you buy a set designed for gaming.

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I've managed to keybind every skill easily on every job with a 5-button mouse and a vanilla keyboard, though. There's even room for growth!

So, For DoW/M I pretty much exclusively play WAR. It's fun, has low queue times, and I can wear DPS gear and DPS (outputting similar numbers to DPS classes, albeit a little low) if I turn Defiance off. I also Craft & Gather, I have all DotH @ 50 and am working on getting all of my Lucis still.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

Really people are having problems with crossbars? Can't say I have. I mean you need an extra one just make one more crossbar non-shared and you have a ton of extra as well(only my sch and smn use it atm but I assume by lvl60 this will increase to all of them). Be smart about laying stuff out as well not just dump skills wherever.

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This

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

How do you manage your PvP actions? ^^;

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So, there's a thread already in a different subforum about managing actions on console/with gamepad, here's a short summary of mine.


Cross HOtbar 1&2 are shared. Common Generic actions used by most/all classes. Summoning my Chocobo mount / a different mount (In case mine is stabled) Gysahl Greens, Chocobo stances, Teleport, Return, Limit Break. etc etc. (Yes, Limit Break is on my first cross hotbar, where Auto Attack isby default. auto Attack is completely useless, but it's always available in case I need to LB.

Onward:

For most classes, I will use Cross hotbar 3 & 4. I have Never spilled into more than two cross hotbars. If I filled up two, I quickly realised that there are some actions I always group together, and I have since Macro's them. berserk / internal release / bloodbath. Convalescense & Thrill of Battle. etc etc.

PvP: I use Cross Hotbars . . . 6 & 7 I think? R1+Down The Hotbars are setup similar to my main hotbars, but include extra actions. The new PvP Actions I typically macro in behind regular actions. Fracture & whatever the DoT ability I get is. Group likes with likes to double stack them. I don't evenknow if it's optimal, but it seems to really work for me. Or at least it did the last time I was really active in Frontlines.

Nowadays, I typically PvP as MRD, so it's a non issue. I unequip my Soul Gem and my hotbars all reset to MRD, and I don't MRD anywhere except PvP, so my hotbars can be set up only for PvP.

Side note, That also means I'm taking in a tonne of extra actions from jot having a soul gem, and I'm taking in actions such as Blood for Blood and Raging Strikes, which are also scripted into the same macro's I previously referenced.

I am given 2.5 seconds to swap to the hotbar I need for any given battle action. It's honestly not that hard. But I'll support making it easier.

I main a DRG, and I think I'll be alright. Right now I keep 3 buffs skills and 2 DOT skills on my main cross bar, and keep maybe 4 skills I rarely use on a second cross bar. I can easily move these 5 skills over there and just switch back and forth between the two bars. I'll have plenty of room then. It's all about management. As for SCH and WHM, start macroing your skills. Then you can start making space. I can't say much for tanks since I don't have a tank to 50 yet.

I am in the same boat as the OP as a scholar. As a PS4 player using a controller, I have 32 slots that I can access without having to switch bars. Scholars have it tough due to pet commands. Here is what we currently have to fit into 32 slots:

18 class actions
5 job actions
5 cross class skills
2 generic actions (sprint + limit break, which is arguably non-essential)
4 pet abilities to manually command
3 essential generic pet commands (heel, place, obey)
37 total for 32 slots.

I can banish summon 1+2, protect, and obey to a separate hotbar. This brings me down to 33 for my 32 slots.

I have created 3 more slots by combining multiple abilities onto a single macro: swiftcast/res, energy drain/aetherflow, and heel/place. That gets me to 30, so I have two slots.

So how many more abilities will they give us? If they follow the old pattern, we will get:
- 1 job ability per 5 levels.
- 1 class ability per 4 levels
- 1 pet ability per 20 levels
- 1 cross class slot per 10 levels.

That would mean 6 more abilities needing slots. I have 2 slots open. I could save two more slots by combining Rouse into Whispering Dawn and Embrace into Physick/Adlo. That would still leave me 2 slots short. At that point, unless anyone has any clever ideas I haven't thought of, I have to start making some genuine sacrifices. Limit Break and Ruin 1 are probably the things I could most easily live without.

I honestly would have thought everyone would be used to swapping hotbars by now.
Every single class I have battle specific skills across 3 hotbars, and regularly cycle 4 or 5 for marking, limit breaks, etc. I used to use mainly two hotbars on some classes, but purposefully spread them out among three for room to expand.

Controller players have a total 144 slots across all the hotbar combinations. Requiring more than this falls into the laughable realm of the guy who needed more than 100 macros for battle classes.

I feel if you can't handle more than a single hotbar, you will only get more and more disappointed as the game progresses.

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Originally Posted by giantslayer

Scholars have it tough due to pet commands. Here is what we currently have to fit into 32 slots:

18 class actions
5 job actions
5 cross class skills
2 generic actions (sprint + limit break, which is arguably non-essential)
4 pet abilities to manually command
3 essential generic pet commands (heel, place, obey)
37 total for 32 slots.

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see now this is the exact reason I adapted to using the controller along with the keyboard/mouse. I couldn't play this on the PS3 as I use hotbars it doesn't have.

I only use two crossbar pages for all of my class and job skills and i repeat skills to make it more intuitive. It's really not a big deal.

Do you really need protect, stoneskin, shield oath, sword oath, defiance, and other buffs alongside your attack skills? No.

The only people worried about new skills are the people who don't know how to organize skills.

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Originally Posted by giantslayer

I am in the same boat as the OP as a scholar. As a PS4 player using a controller, I have 32 slots that I can access without having to switch bars. Scholars have it tough due to pet commands. Here is what we currently have to fit into 32 slots:

18 class actions
5 job actions
5 cross class skills
2 generic actions (sprint + limit break, which is arguably non-essential)
4 pet abilities to manually command
3 essential generic pet commands (heel, place, obey)
37 total for 32 slots.

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Pets get their own crossbar page. They don't count.

You don't need summons, protect, and stoneskin on active abilities.

You only need two pages. Stop wasting space with actions you only use once per run.

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Originally Posted by SekhmetM;

Pets get their own crossbar page. They don't count.

You don't need summons, protect, and stoneskin on active abilities.

You only need two pages. Stop wasting space with actions you only use once per run.

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As I explained in ample detail in the rest of my post, I have already relegated summons and protect to another bar. I keep my faerie on Obey, so I need to have access to her cooldowns. I keep stoneskin around because it comes in handy in battle once in a while and I have the space for it. It wouldn't be a big loss to move it off if I needed the space. Everything I need in my 32 fits nicely right now with room to spare, but I can't say with confidence it will all work post-expansion without knowing how many new abilities they are adding.

Can you plug in a keyboard / mouse on PS4?

when in doubt, macro.

The gamepad already has room for 32 actions which can be used instantly without changing hotbars if you utilize the R2>L2 and L2>R2 switches. I really don't see how that isn't enough room for all the actions you could need.

If you're not using the R2>L2 and L2>R2 switches you should really start using them, they're awesome and can be enabled in the cross hotbar settings.

One thing I would love to see in addition to the already existing switches is to be able to disable certain hotbars from the quick hotbar switch (tap R1). The quick switch method becomes ineffective if you have more than 2 full hotbars and it becomes faster to hold R1 and click another button to switch (not quite fast enough in combat to me).

Switching between 2 crossbars is ok. No class in this game have more than 32 active skills. A third crossbar for what?

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

The gamepad already has room for 32 actions which can be used instantly without changing hotbars if you utilize the R2>L2 and L2>R2 switches. I really don't see how that isn't enough room for all the actions you could need.

If you're not using the R2>L2 and L2>R2 switches you should really start using them, they're awesome and can be enabled in the cross hotbar settings.

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As a SCH, I still need more room. The R2>L2 and L2>R2 switches are dominated by Eos and Selene :/

I already use a second crossbar for stuff I don't have to cast much like Raise, but in the heat of the moment it really is cumbersome to fiddle around with menu switching. I do wonder how they plan to make it easier for controller players.

My biggest issue and problem is that I need to see my cooldowns for dps. Right now, I am able to fit everything I need to see GCD on the first set. GCD is also why I don't use macros for dps. And if I have to switch between two sets to see GCD, my damage will suffer.

I also have both sets full on sch because I prefer to micro manage my fairies.

I know there are some skilled people out there that can easily switch to any set at any time, but I am not one of those. Once I start switching between more than two sets, I start making stupid mistakes.

I guess just wait and see what we get. I might have to ditch some abilities or just see what SE has planned for crossbars.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

Switching between 2 crossbars is ok. No class in this game have more than 32 active skills. A third crossbar for what?

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Well this topic is about new skills coming with heavensward. No jobs but scholar and summoner needs more than 32(which can be gotten around by using crosshotbar switching macros) currently, but that could possibly change depending on how many new skills are added.

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

...One thing I would love to see in addition to the already existing switches is to be able to disable certain hotbars from the quick hotbar switch (tap R1)....

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Did you mean now you cannot disable certain hotbars from the quick hotbar switch?
There is a setting to define which bars are available for "tap R1" during combat or normal, did I misunderstand what you mean?

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Originally Posted by Darlan_Ashwood

Can you plug in a keyboard / mouse on PS4?

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For example I play on PS4 and large TV, sitting on the sofa without a desk, using keyboard and mouse is very inconvenience. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

My biggest issue and problem is that I need to see my cooldowns for dps. Right now, I am able to fit everything I need to see GCD on the first set. GCD is also why I don't use macros for dps. And if I have to switch between two sets to see GCD, my damage will suffer.

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Oh yeah, that is one disadvantage with the cross hotbar setup.
The great news here is the PS4 and PC cross hotbar setups aren't exclusively set to cross hotbars and you can also place any combination of horizontal and vertical hotbars on your HUD.
I use these crossbars without keybinds to show my cooldowns and have them surrounding my cross hotbar, and they are visible regardless which crossbar you are on.

If you're using a PS3 still, well, chalk it up to one more system limitation in its long list of deficiencies. :(