It's getting ridiculous, for anything you want to do in this game there is a massive amount of RNG it's not even funny, you spend more time crossing your fingers than playing the game xD.
Take chocobos as an example. You breed 2 chocobos.
Stars of the offspring: Random.
Abilities inherited: Random between mother and father.
Preferred weather: Random.
And once you start leveling it, the fledging learns a random ability at level 10...and if it's not the desired one, lethe water and keep leveling for another random one.
Seriously, can there be a single, just a mother freaking single thing we don't have to cross our fingers or pray to god for it to happen?
I understand the RNG is exciting and all but...
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03-10-2015, 04:20 AMGallusI understand the RNG is exciting and all but...
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03-10-2015, 07:19 AMMilesSaintboroguh
A friend of mine told me that abilities and possibly stats take from the chocobo that's a lower generation (by 1 to 3 gens I think), so you'd either have to get a covering chocobo whose generation is higher than your racing chocobo or get a lower gen covering bird if your racer's gen is a lot higher. I can't confirm if this is true, but give it a shot I suppose.
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03-10-2015, 07:27 AMMomomiMomiYou can influence these, though, so I don't think it's that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallus
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03-10-2015, 08:19 AMGallusI can confirm myself this is not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh
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03-10-2015, 10:53 AMHexy
By the way, the stars inherited come from both your chocobo's parents and the cover bird's parents. It's not completely random, and you definitely have the choice of what birds you breed. I've bred over 15 birds and am currently racing a G5 and I've never gotten any 1 star stats simply because I don't breed my birds with covers that have 1 star stats on either side.
As far as skills inherited goes, it's a 50/50 chance regardless of pedigree. My first G2 inherited Choco Cure 3 from his G9 mother. I do NOT suggest breeding higher pedigrees however since the sheer cost gets very expensive. What I've done is teach my breeder birds Headstart to pass down since it's not a tiered skill.
If anyone wants to know more, you are welcome to contact me on Gilgamesh server. I'm part of a chocobo breeding linkshell and would love to share my experiences and statistics with anyone that asks politely :) -
03-10-2015, 12:16 PMKimura410
i agree with OP. ive been saying this since gold saucer launched. the rng factor that plays into almost all of the content is getting a little old. its fine for mounts and stuff thats basically cosmetic. but when it involves progression of some sort, or your "ultimate weapon", its kinda lame. nothing that will make a person more bitter and resentful to either the devs or their own friends or both, when they farm for hours on end to get something and it only takes another person 2-3 tries to get said item. for me, cards were the big disappointment. firstly, i dont want to do dungeons.trials ive done a million times for a CHANCE at a card drop. i want to play cards to win cards.
not only that, but spending hours on end playing npcs and not getting the card drop is pretty demoralizing. and it just seems theres no real incentive to play humans. i gave up because its not worth my time. a man can only take so much rng dependent grind. the broken tournament pretty much sealed the deal for me. i know its being fixed, but the big picture is that gating things behind rng almost every time there is something to gate just isnt fun at all -
03-10-2015, 12:57 PMWelsper59While I can sympathize on the demoralizing aspect of the RNG card drops when you win a match, that's the name of the game lol. Did you expect the cards to be obtained immediately upon victory? Did you expect them all to be made only available through purchasing MGP? That, btw, would be HORRIBLE if so lol. It was really frustrating to collect the cards I have, but it was definitely worth the sense of accomplishment IMO, especially having beat Rowena and Swift in getting all of the cards they have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimura410
The card drops from dungeons though, you really DON'T need to do them. In fact, I'm mostly proof of that. I have zero cards that only drop from normal dungeons when I was on my quest to hit 60. Meaning I have no Tonberry, Siren, and Ahriman cards. I attempted to do raids for some cards (Hildibrand related and WoD only), but only managed to get Greg and Onion Knight, both of which seem to be fairly decent drop rates. Every single other card I have, I earned through TT matches or MGP. I've got nearly all of the NPC drop ones, including every primal and NPC card from the three GCs, Rowena, Landenel, and Hab. The only one I'm missing is Gaius, as far as NPC win cards are concerned. I don't have Vaan, so there's one that someone could do in short time with a guarantee. Again, with the exception of Greg and the Onion Knight, every one of my 60 cards were from winning TT matches and MGP.
RNG, in general, is a part of the MMORPG genre. It goes hand in hand with it. You remove it, or minimize the occasions that it exists, it's no longer much of an MMORPG. It's the nature of the game, and in fact, the nature RPGs in general. Can they overdo it? Of course. But right now, given how new the content is, I really don't think it's right to make that claim. Many of us have put a lot of effort into it, but we did manage to get 60+ cards already. Was RNG in our favor? Most definitely in some cases. But that's not to say that it won't be in yours today... tomorrow... next week lol. -
03-10-2015, 01:58 PMPotatoTree
The issue with RNG is how it doesn't necessarily reward work. You can have one player grind all day and never get a drop, and you can have another player go up and get the drop on their first run. Yes I know it's a casino, and it's supposed to be RNG. But it's also supposed to be a game, and it's supposed to be fun, not frustrating.
There can be a balance between outrageous RNG and extending game time. As a random example, you can have a system where something like you need to win 100 times to have a chance at the drop, but if you go over 200 wins you are guaranteed a drop. That keeps the RNG in there, but reduces the standard deviation among players.
In the end, it's about extending play time for SE, and having fun for the players. Pure RNG is just frustrating to deal with, and may not even extend play time when players end up giving up or quitting. Something that splits it half half between grind and RNG may be a better solution.
Of course, no one NEEDS any of these things, but people want them and people have fun getting them. Keep in mind that no one needs to play the game either, we can take our money elsewhere. -
03-10-2015, 11:37 PMRobinRethielYou are lucky, when you get good chocobos for breeding. Just today I got four chocobos in a row with 6-8 1 Star Ratings and well, MGP do not fall from heaven.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexy
The biggest RNG starts at the moment you are buying it and I never saw any good skill to inherit.
There are many ways. For example, achievements: win against NPC x y times and you get the rare card.Quote:
While I can sympathize on the demoralizing aspect of the RNG card drops when you win a match, that's the name of the game lol.
Or balanced luck, you can get lucky and gain the card before the 100th victory, but you will get it for sure at the 100th.
I don't care much about the Gaius card, since I got the 60 card achievement, but by simply farming MGP for chocobo racing, I beat this guy at least 300-400 times. None.
I also never even saw a single pony drop. I don't like their look anyway and would not roll on them, but hell...
It's not. It's just a simple mechanic to avoid using better mechanics which need more work. You don't have to balance RNG, because it's all about luck/bad luck anyway, so who cares. This makes it easy to deploy without all the necessary fine-tuning a system without RNG would need.Quote:
RNG, in general, is a part of the MMORPG genre.
RNG simply destroys many other game mechanics.
There ARE good ways to use RNG, for example, that you got difference mobs at different positions for a different experience, giving a world a living touch.
Example:
Good RNG: Chocobo Race: you don't have the same plates, chests and enemies at the same positions, but they are randomly placed on the curse, so every race is a bit different. The game gives you a challenge by a random factor.
Bad RNG: You get a bad items/weather, which will simply cost you 20s of time, without anything you can do about it. Or you are grinding an area for an Atma, but even after 500 fates, you do not get it. You did nothing wrong you can not do anything better in any way, the game just hates you.
Bad RNG is also often there to "buy some time". No content for the next year? Just give them something to grind and put some RNG in it. Finished. Yeah. Many MMOs and other games use such mechanics. It does not make them any better. -
03-11-2015, 12:02 AMErudainIIRC the are only 53 cards you can win from NPCs, 54 if you add Squall (since if you got all the NPCs cards you beat them all).Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsper59
Yeah the drop is RNG too but at least that's fun (yeah right....looking at you Landenel and Rowena) or you can practice other strategies and you're farming MGP while you're doing it.
But, you're still RNG bound to get 6 more to unlock the 60 allowance.....either pray to RNGesus for silver/gold packs drops, dungeons/trials/raids drops, or win the weekly cacpot to buy Cloud and Nanamo. -
03-11-2015, 05:17 AMWelsper59I double checked after reading this to count the cards and noticed I completely forgot about Sahagin in my list. I ran Sastasha for a friend that needed it for story and I forgot it dropped for me when I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erudain
You're technically RNG bound to most everything in an MMORPG lol (some exceptions). Truth be told though, after buying so many Gold and Silver packs, Lahabrea is not as bad to obtain as Zidane and Warrior of Light when it comes to RNG and MGP cost amounts lol. My only legendary cards are Squall and Onion Knight still. The likelihood of getting Minfillia and Ultima isn't too bad from silver/gold packs, so at least folks will manage to likely get a couple strong cards sooner than later... I mean it'll take a number of them though (I lucked out with Ultima and Minfillia on my first few packs, but didn't see them again until like my 30th lol).
But yeah, I mean that's how things are. Some of us want to obtain cards through the system itself (this MUST include MGP sources, since that's what the content is designed around... folks can't be fatheaded about that), and I think I'm a decent example of doing just that. I got my Gaius card last night, so I'm at 61 now. There are 58 non-legendary cards that you can obtain without doing any instances (includes Nanamo, Ultima, and Lahabrea). Currently obtainable legendary cards without instances: Vaan, Zidane, Warrior of Light, and Squall, total that to 62 (not including tournament rewarded Lightning). By the end of the next tournament, Shantoto will potentially be available for some of us (again, not including tournament rewarded Cecil). While it's unfortunate that currently, it's not very realistic to get the full 60 through non-instance means alone, it is still possible to do without a single instance. If you don't want to play a really low RNG chance with your MGP through silver/gold packs, get yourself through WoD and other instances for those low star cards. I see them as "alternatives" to the 60 grind. -
03-11-2015, 06:44 PMGallus
And when I thought there wasn't more RNG involved, R200+ chocobo races seem to have an average of 2-4 choco meteors falling on everyone's head every race, I mean EVERY FREAKING RACE TROLOLOLOMETEORS ON EVERYONE...like the winner is always the lucky guy who manages to get a hero's tonic/stamina tablet when choco meteors start raining.
Oh SE... -
03-11-2015, 10:06 PMMilesSaintboroguh
You would love Mario Kart
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03-11-2015, 10:31 PMMadigariActually, I kind of did. In FFVIII, you won at least one opponent's card that you captured, and all of them if you locked out the score. I don't see why that had to be changed just to encourage more of a grind and put RNG into something that never had this level of RNG in its original incarnation. You can say that it's the nature of an MMO/the nature of RPGs in general, but there are plenty of MMOs and RPGs that can control themselves when it comes to putting RNG in most every single facet of the game. The proof of that is in that this game didn't have this rule when it was in FFVIII.Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsper59
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03-11-2015, 11:33 PMErudain
in VIII your opponent took one of your cards or even several if you lost.......can you imagine the rant threads we'd have if you lost your good card here everytime you lose?
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03-11-2015, 11:36 PMMadigariI don't know. How many rant threads were made on the old forums when you lost a good card in Triple Triad when XI was at it's peak? I imagine most people would just accept it as part of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erudain
As proven by the mini cactpot thread in this forum, some people will complain about anything, though. -
03-12-2015, 05:19 AMWelsper59To be fair, I wasn't 100% sure if it was going to be following the normal MMORPG random drop chance neither, but the fact it was definitely fit expectations lol. It's true that they don't have to do that... but at the same time, name one that's successful that doesn't resort to RNG for the majority of its content. Even WoW, for as faceroll as it is, still relies on RNG for a great deal of core things that players experience, including loot/drops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madigari
FFVIII is a single player game. It's an RPG, but not one that aimed to make it mandatory for you to partake in side content. TT was a brilliant add, but it's still just a small part of the whole game. Besides that, unlike here, it's not like the game held your hand as far as pointing you to the right locations that NPCs are (no indications such as an icon). The most important thing too... single player games are designed to have an end lol. They have a certain "average" amount of time the developer expects you to play the game before you beat it (which usually includes any side content). An MMORPG is designed to have you play the content it has for YEARS (namely because new content gets released periodically). You really can't compare the content and design of a single player game to an MMORPG easily, as by doing so, you essentially open the flood gates as far as what one "should" have... which, in reality because of classification of genre, they can't really do without reason.